mATX Roundup

[tcsenter]

Review Suggestions???

How about testing integrated graphics against sensible entry-level discrete GPUs; e.g. GF6200, 7300GS, RADEON X300, X600.

None of this "Well golly, none of our [free] integrated graphics competitors remotely approach the peformance of the $300 value segment 8800GTS."

Nobody wonders how much performance over IGP they can get by spending $300+ more. They wonder how much performance over IGP they can get by spending an additional $30...$40...$50.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Nobody wonders how much performance over IGP they can get by spending $300+ more. They wonder how much performance over IGP they can get by spending an additional $30...$40...$50.

That's a really good idea, actually.

 

[BlingBlingArsch]

yep, too bad those new entry level dx10 boards are not launched yet, but maybe Gary could save a mATX board for a review of these.

 

[Gary Key]

Originally posted by: Skott
Just a update. A third person over at HardForum has claimed his mobo died after 2 days of use. Reason yet unknown. :-(

I have two boards, one now has around 100 hours of dual Prime95 on it with an E6300 at 7x333, the other board is being tested now. I have not seen any issues to date that would lead me to believe the board will fail.

 

[JKing76]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Nobody wonders how much performance over IGP they can get by spending $300+ more. They wonder how much performance over IGP they can get by spending an additional $30...$40...$50.

That's a really good idea, actually.

Yes. Not only in terms of the graphics performance, but in terms of power draw and temperature change.

 

[GEOrifle]

What about ASUS P5B-VM DO mATX motherboard ?
CPU support: Quad-core / Core 2 Extreme / Core 2 Duo / Pentium
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131085

Model P5B-VM DO
Supported CPU
CPU Socket Type LGA 775
CPU Type Quad-core / Core 2 Extreme / Core 2 Duo / Pentium
FSB 1066/800MHz
Supported CPU Technologies Hyper-Threading Technology
Chipsets
North Bridge Intel Q965 Express
South Bridge Intel ICH8DO
Memory
Number of Memory Slots 4×240pin
Memory Standard DDR2 800
Maximum Memory Supported 8GB
Dual Channel Supported Yes
Expansion Slots
PCI Express x16 1
PCI Express x4 1
PCI Slots 2
Storage Devices
PATA 1 x ATA100 up to 2 Devices
SATA 3Gb/s 7 x Internal SATA 3.0 Gb/s ports
1 x External SATA 3.0 Gb/s port (SATA On-the-Go)
SATA RAID 0/1/0+1/5
Onboard Video
Onboard Video Chipset Intel GMA 3000
Onboard Audio
Audio Chipset ADI AD1988
Audio Channels 8 Channels
Onboard LAN
LAN Chipset Intel 82566DM
Max LAN Speed 10/100/1000Mbps
Rear Panel Ports
PS/2 2
LPT 1
Video Ports D-Sub
USB 4 x USB 2.0
IEEE 1394 1 x IEEE 1394a
Audio Ports 6 Ports
Onboard USB
Onboard USB 3 x USB 2.0 connectors support 6 ports
Onboard 1394
Onboard 1394 1 x 1394a connector supports 1 port
Physical Spec
Form Factor Micro ATX
Dimensions 9.6" x 9.6"
Features
Power Pin 24 Pin
Features Notice: Only DDR2-800 memory supporting JEDEC approved 1.8V operation with timings of 5-5-5 or 6-6-6 is supported on Intel Desktop Boards based on Intel 965 Express Chipsets.
Packaging
Package Contents P5B-VM DO
Driver Disk
User Manual
Rear I/O Panel Shield
IDE/PATA Cable
FDD Cable
SATA Cable
4-pin to SATA Power Cable

 

[chucky2]

Might be too late now to make another request Gary, but it'd be nice if the motherboard manufacturers themselves could give us a better idea when they'll be releasing their 690G products, and their best estimate on when their MCP68 and if possible their Intel Bearlake boards will hit NewEgg type of eTailers.

Also, can you address compwarez's comment above? Is it true 690G can't handle in hardware 1080p30?

Chuck

 

[BlingBlingArsch]

Gary, have u encountered any problems with the Abits USB ports while booting up? Some users in different threads were reporting on USB and boot problems.

 

[Gary Key]

Originally posted by: BlingBlingArsch
Gary, have u encountered any problems with the Abits USB ports while booting up? Some users in different threads were reporting on USB and boot problems.

No issues with either one of my boards, yet. I either must be lucky or my components know they will be tossed out the second floor window if there are issues. Actually, start looking real close at the abit boards and see if you can find any solder flux excess or missed bridged points. It seems as though several of the QuadGT owners I tried to helped had boards with manufacturing defects on them. Something to think about....

 

[Gary Key]

Originally posted by: chucky2
Might be too late now to make another request Gary, but it'd be nice if the motherboard manufacturers themselves could give us a better idea when they'll be releasing their 690G products, and their best estimate on when their MCP68 and if possible their Intel Bearlake boards will hit NewEgg type of eTailers.

Also, can you address compwarez's comment above? Is it true 690G can't handle in hardware 1080p30?

Chuck

690G products should be available widely starting next week. AMD keeps telling me that 1080P is fine once they have driver support for it. Until the admit otherwise, I am going to hold out hope. MCP68 will be around 4/16, G35 is up to Intel, depends on how they want to approach the market, figure in early May, P35 might hit in April with the price cuts.

 

[chucky2]

Gary,

Sorry to bug you again, but, when you say MCP68 will be around 4/16, do you mean the official launch and then boards hit the market some time after that...or, do you mean you think boards will start hitting the market right around 4/16?

G35 sounds too late...maybe AMD will enjoy a little bump in sales, or, at least less bleed than they've been experiencing lately......

Chuck

 

[yehuda]

In response to the original post (thanks Gary ), I would like to see some undervolt data for the AMD 65nm X2 3600 part (which has recently become a bargain where I live). I want to know what's the lowest working vcore setting for your sample and how effectively it helps mitigate peak power consumption.

 

[najames]

tcsenter, there are a some comparisons floating around already comparing the onboard video to entry level video cards. Here is one, I have not read it and am not a gamer so YMMV.

AMD 690/6150/6200TC comparison
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4726&s=7

Hey, I just saw this white 690 board. Would have to send it to the cleaners more than my dark colored motherboards? HaHaHa....

http://www.sapphiretech.com/us/products...ucts_overview.php?gpid=178&pid=g&grp=6

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: najames
tcsenter, there are a some comparisons floating around already comparing the onboard video to entry level video cards. Here is one, I have not read it and am not a gamer so YMMV.

AMD 690/6150/6200TC comparison
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4726&s=7

That's an interesting one. Wow, didn't know my 6200TC that I use for a test bench card kicks so much booty! That motherboard looks okay too - looks like Biostar finally is offering more than 2v vDIMM on DDR2.

 

[Binky]

Gary,

My two mAtx systems are both HTPC's. For these systems, I'm a noise fanatic. Noise from the onboard fans is a big issue (this can be fixed). Noise from the capacitors and other onboard components is even more important (this cant be fixed). Both should be mentioned at least, and hopefully added as part of the overall score.

 

[najames]

Is this still the case with ATI, specifiically with the 690Gs?

Linux HTPC Guide

"Video cards also are another area where there isn't a whole lot of brand choices. Currently there is only one brand of cards, NVIDIA, that makes cards with onboard MPEG2 hardware decoding (That is supported under Linux). This support, known as XvMC, can come in helpful as it offloads the CPU from some video processing so it can do other things. ATI cards, however, are known to have truer color display output and better contrast and gamma tables. Hopefully one day ATI will provide drivers with support for the MPEG2 hardware decoding. Another option to use certain VIA boards that also have support for onboard XvMC support, such as the cle266, but this is limited to DVD and lower resolution MPEG 2 streams."

 

[Double Trouble]

I've been looking at various mATX board options for a while to use in my new HTPC. Personally I'd really want to know which of these boards come with brackets or a breakout to output HD using component cables.

The HDMI and HDCP capability is nice, but since these boards will not have enough 'oomph' to output blu-ray or HD dvd at high res anyway, it doesn't really matter a whole lot.

A comparison of entry level video cards to the persformance of the integrated video would be nice. I've considered adding video, but I'm not planning on spending a bunch to get a 'game worthy' video card in an HTPC, I just need something reasonable.

 

[Steeeeve]

Gary you created a monster!

I am glad you are taking the time to do the mATX motherboard review...seems this is an underrated form factor at the moment and hopefully it might cause mobo manufacturers to start making more powerful small boards.

I also thank you for getting the F-I90HD board from me. I got about 100 more of them coming in soon and will be pre-sold and will probably go faster than when you got one .

I think the biggest thing you need to look at is overclocking and performance compared to ATX motherboards. You already wrote an article on this and I think it needs to be looked at a little closer. In my opinion there is no reason why a mATX motherboard should not have the same overclocking and performance measures as an ATX motherboard. Even if they are "budget" boards the cost reduction is in the size of the board and doesn't have to be a cheap chipset. Based on my experience people will buy a "better board" even if they don't use the functions on it that make it better. The F-I90HD is a good example of this. This board is selling like hot cakes, it has the bext chipset for mATX, overlocks well, and have mega features but the majority of buyers that I have had only want it because they believe it to be a solid board.

Perhaps DTX can get some powerful chipsets as well

 

[DanDrop]

Hi Gary & Steeeve,
I have the Abit F-I90HD board (also ordered at sffstore.com, thanks Steeeve). Since this board is HTPC oriented, could you test out the onboard sound thoroughly? More specifically, the SPDIF/Coax digital outs connected to a 5.1 receiver and see if it does 5.1 digital sound.

Thanks!

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Steeeeve
In my opinion there is no reason why a mATX motherboard should not have the same overclocking and performance measures as an ATX motherboard.

Absolutely! :thumbsup: My Abit NF-M2 nView micro ATX board can do 360MHz+ on the HTT so there's proof!

 

[Gary Key]

I know there a better Linux Distributions for a variety of reasons (according to the information I have gleaned from Google) but I will be providing a simple analysis of each chipset with SUSE 10.2 (it seems to have the easiest setup routine and feature set for beginners like me). I just started the testing last night, so any Linux experts out there please reply with any really important areas or tests I should concentrate my limited time on for this OS.

 

[BlingBlingArsch]

from another forum..
"Using the onboard video while overclocking is in my opinion rather "dangerous" ,the nb seems very weak in this condition!
Most reports of dead f-i90hd were in this situation...
I anticipated from the beginning by using an old nvidia tnt PCI because of this issue..."

dunno if thats just a crazy theory or a good point.

 

[najames]

Wow Gary, you DA MAN!!!

It will be nice to see what plays well with Linux. Suse is nice and probrably has good compatibility, but I'd bet there are a lot of disks to install. Ubuntu has just one CD that could run live without actually installing too. This would save you time from overwriting your WinXP/Vista partitions and reformatting.

I think this test would be good enough just to see if it can handle the hardware on the boards. You might want to get something with a late kernel, perhaps Ubuntu Feisty. I suspect that fairly recent kernels will handle the onboard graphics much better from what I've read. I have been using Feisty (actually installed) off and on for some time using an AMD64 3200+ sytem and it seems fairly stable even though it is a "beta".

Either way, if it doesn't install and all you get is video garbage, just report that the board had problems with video during the install. If the video works, but ethernet does not, just report it as an incompatibility. Check to see if sound works, etc. That is what folks will want to know. You don't have time to get into video acceleration and 3-D desktops likely. The noapic option might be worth a try if it doesn't run right away. The only thing you might gain with Suse is that it might have more multimedia running out of the box, not sure.

Personally, I would just like to make sure the video works on all the systems, especially the new stuff like an AMD 690G, the new Nvidia 7050 onboard, or latest onboard Intel chip. If video works, the rest sould be solveable.

If needed:
Feisty download


I found this page with a nice linkable table. It shows all the specs for each 690 board. Scroll down and click on view detail.

Chinese website translated

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: RamIt
Overclocking ...please.

Fixed. I'd like to see all boards tested for overclock.

Also, would like to see comparisions between a mATX board and an ATX board using similar chipsets, same hardware and all settings the same. Chipset wise, something like Q965 versus P965, Geforce6150 versus Geforce4, things like that. All parts and settings (RAM, video, CPU, clock settings, RAM timings, etc.) the same. I'd like to put to rest the urban legend that mATX boards are somehow slower than ATX boards.

not just that, but also problems upon overclocking.... my p5l-vm doesn't connect to the network or internet whenever i overclock...

 

[piasabird]

Most motherboard designers design motherboards which are MATX not to be overclocked. I saw an MATX motherboard a while back designed with high-end integrated music in mind. Also the availability of 4 Memory Slots is also lacking. Then there is the availability of an integrated board with a DVI Connector. All of these come together to point to the fact that most MATX motherboards are aimed at low-end Systems designed not to be overclocked. Some few of these are designed for use as PVR's or Digital Video devices, but even they usually lack a DVI Connector.

I am looking forward to your article. It will be interesting to see what it takes to get a good video score for vista. Microsoft seems to be telling people there are 2 different sets of requirements for Vista. If MS says for a Vista-Ready PC they suggest 1 Gigabytes of RAM, then maybe that is a minimum and they really mean 2.

Here is an interesting Article.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=323&tag=nl.e622

They are saying it takes 1 Gb of Ram and 15 Gb's of free space to install Vista. However, Dell is still selling Vista Computers with 512 Megs of RAM.