mATX Roundup

[Gary Key]

Originally posted by: najames
Rule of thumb, health first, job second. Glad you're back.

I have not installed the 3/27 "deleted missing string" BIOS for the Biostar TA690G yet, but as shipped mine seems to stop cold at 264 no matter what I do. I was trying to test it at 270 last night and temps were going up just sitting locked up in the BIOS so I said enough, screw it. I'll likely run it near stock or might even leave it undervolted. This thing is will even run undervolted and overclocked. I am curious to see what BIOS you used.

My only real gripe is no firewire chip. I have not tested video and audio outputs yet though. I originally inteneded to simply do a few benchmarks on this board with WinXP and install Linux, but am still trying to sort out the 10million BIOS settings. Hopefully you'll provide them ALL in your review!!

Update your BIOS if possible, should allow a few more FSB. The one item I have noticed is the Brisbane cores are getting above 300HTT, the Windsors around 270~280 right now. I have asked AMD about this problem. I will have a review on most of the BIOS settings. The BIOS that Biostar and Sapphire are using is the reference BIOS from AMD and as such every setting available is unlocked.

 

[najames]

Gary, just kidding about you showing all the BIOS settings, too many for you to address. I now makes sense why they are all there.

I did look again on Biostars website today, the 3/27 BIOS appears to be the same as one installed. I used the Biostar Utility on the disk and saved the factory BIOS, then told it to install from Biostar and it said there is no new BIOS available. I have not tried to do anything else with it.

My current box does have a Brisbane 3600. I wouldn't mind building another with a BIG CPU though, maybe the Sapphire board if it pans out, so I get the firewire onboard too.

Jim

 

[ancolboy]

Originally posted by: najames
My only real gripe is no firewire chip. I have not tested video and audio outputs yet though. I originally inteneded to simply do a few benchmarks on this board with WinXP and install Linux, but am still trying to sort out the 10million BIOS settings. Hopefully you'll provide them ALL in your review!!

hi Najames,
I am curious about your experience with linux, which distro are you using, and how did it go?

 

[maglito]

Gary, curious if you get smooth 1080p HDDVD or BluRay (specifically H.264 or VC1 titles) playback with any of these boards. It seems serious overclocking is out for me as I only have the Asus and MSI boards. The new driver you speak of is the 7.33? I will try that version as well on both mine when I get beck home on Wednesday the 25th and report back if it helps with all the lost frames. All other review websites I've seen test 1080p with low bitrate (compared to HDDVD/BluRay) downloaded sample files that make for a very poor real world test of 1080p playback. Glad to hear you are doing better sir!

 

[magreen]

Gary,

Glad you're back. I have a request, that you include in your roundup whether each IGP can support the most common widescreen resolutions, especially 1680x1050. I've heard the Intel 965G cannot (don't know if it's true). Thanks.

 

[najames]

Sorry, fixing lawn sprinkers, yard work, tree triming, weekend errands, and 4 Planet Earth shows on Discovery took priority on Linux installation last weekend. doh!! Gary already said Suse (10.2?) installed ok on the Biostar TA690G board. It was why I bought this board.

I will be installing Ubuntu Feisty 64 tonight after I update the BIOS to the "deleted string" version with WinXP first. I already saved the shiping BIOS using the Biostar utility.

I was hoping the AT article would come while I have WinXP installed, which I only use for benchmarking and testing. I really like Ubuntu Feisty 64 with 32 bit FF installed and other stuff "fixed" (see Ubuntu Guide). I have this same setup running on a test box now with the "enhanced desktop" thingy, and would like to clone it on this PC. I also have Suse and Mint ready to test, but will use another PC initially.

Jim

 

[ancolboy]

Hi Jim, thank you for that. So it is the SUSE 10.2, and not OpenSUSE?

I am using Ubuntu too, just tried the Feisty on my old comp, somehow I cannot get the beryl works on Feisty, it was working fine under Edgy. I am using geforce 6200 and have updated to the most recent Nvidia driver for Linux.

So looking forward to hear how the Ubuntu goes in the TA690G. Thanks

Hasikin

 

[najames]

See page 3 of this thread for Gary's Suse info.

I just clicked on the enhanced desktop option under Ubuntu and it all worked, don't know if it's the same as you are doing.

From Ubuntu 7.04 info "Graphical Desktop Effects will be made extremely accessible, with one click activation in the system menu. "

I punted on installing the 3/27/07 BIOS file. It had a lot of question marks for information about the files, perhaps Chinese instead of English. I didn't want to risk it so I stayed with the shipping BIOS.

EDIT - Ubuntu Feisty install updates.

The good news
1) It runs off the CD without doing anything. You end up on the working desktop of the LiveCD.
2) This is the first distro ever that didn't run the LCD out of spec at 85Hz via VGA and a 4port KVM. It ran it at 61Hz at 1024x768.

The bad news
1) the Feisty installation is borked for partitions over about 200GB, it will say you can't end before you start or something similar. Known Ubuntu problem, I used a 320GB sata drive.
/boot 150MB
swap 2GB
/ 15GB
/home ~300GB

Solution was to either let Ubuntu do it all, or use 200GB max partitions and it worked ok. I dind't notice softraid options this time either.

2) It wants to run the desktop at 1024x768 even if you specify 1280x1024 in the installation. I briefly tried ot run sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg and it borked the display so I went back to the original file.

More time is needed, but at least you will have a working, basic desktop easily. Enhanced desktop from the live CD got a white blank screen, don't do it off the live CD with this board.

 

[ancolboy]

thank you very much Jim, this information really valuable for me. I am deciding between Geforce 6150 or AMD 690G (I know I am asking for trouble by staying away from Nvidia while using Linux). But I wanted to try the 690G so bad for it's HDMI port, because I wanted to see if it makes the display in 26" samsung lcd tv looks better.

And thank you for the 200GB warning, I personally don't have bigger than 160GB disk, so atleast now I know what to expect if I ever buy 320GB disk.

Again thank you Jim, your info are very appreciated.

 

[najames]

You are certainly welcome Ancolboy!! I really like helping out people, but don't have much time.

I am testing with Mint Bianca Linux now, although 32bit, but it's another Debian based distro. It appears Mint's GParted installer is better mannered and happily partitioned the full hard drive like I wanted. It had no problems with any of the hardware, and the live desktop came up clean, exactly like Ubuntu Feisty 64. It uses the same method of installing video evidently, with the same desktop resolutions, default 1024x768 max (with 800x600 and 640x480 as other choices). I really like the way both distros are handling the all in one card reader much better than WinXP. It makes neat little drive icons for each slot of the drive. WinXP created a bunch of drives up to G, H was the hard drive. It drove me nuts testing it, yeah I could have changed them all. Mint uses a custom menu system, I kind of like it actually. One negative with Mint, it said there were updates and when I went to install them it wouldn't go like it couldn't find them based on the sources evidently. Mint is definately a nice looking distro.

Time for this old man to crash. I have to work on the graphics program from hell tomorrow. Oh joy.

 

[maglito]

Update on 1080p playback, new driver (7.4)every bit as choppy (I was using catalist 7.3 before).
I am running a 5200(the big cache version) with the only drive as a 4GB Gigabyte RAMDisk (450MB free space of 4GB total).

Using ATI tool I can overclock the graphics core from 400 to 550 and still choppy performance. If you guys think over clocking the RAM or simply running a faster core speed would fix these problems I'll gladly trade in my MSI or Gigabyte boards for a Sapphire to start overclocking, but I am just a bit under impressed at this point with this chipset; I'm beginning to question if it is even possible for it to output 1080p content smoothly at any speed processor and memory. Will the Nvidia 7050 do any better? I guess I will send back my MSI for a Sapphire and keep cranking (up the speeds). I will also experiment with playing the HDDVDs EVO files from a local Hard Drive to see if eliminating the AACS overhead will help (although I would much rather simply play them from the drive).

For reference my testing is playing back Children of Men full screened on a fully HDCP compliant 1080p display with fresh install and updated Windows XP or MCE 2005 (tried both) using PowerDVD 7.1 (only app installed; version 7.3 refuses to play as it doesn't recognize the the X1250) using the Xbox 360 DVD addon. When full screening the movie with the desktop set to 1920x1080 (native 1:1 output to display) it is choppy and unwatchable. When fullscreening with the desktop set to 1280x720 it is very smooth (I notices perhaps 3 lost frames the entire movie). I am trying to set everything up in a 1U silent case, so these mATX boards are my only real solution, but they are turning out to be a huge let down.

 

[Gary Key]

Biostar AMD 690G Performance BIOS


We will have BIOS updates shortly for the other 690G boards. Our first article goes up next week and will concentrate on the AMD uATX boards first, the second article will follow with the Intel boards by a couple of days, and then the third article will concentrate on Linux performance and compatibility along with some updates regarding HD-DVD and Blu-ray playback. We will also include the new Intel Digital Home Capabilities Assessment Tool results for the multimedia centric users.

As far as 1080P playback, it works now, still choppy in several instances, even with a 6000+, Raptors, and a lot of overclocking. AMD is trying to get us an optimized video driver, will post it up if it works.

More tomorrow....

 

[stromgald]

Gary,

Did any of the Intel mATX boards show good overclocking potential with Core 2 processors? Or are they still lagging behind ATX boards in overclocking performance?

Thanks

 

[FireTech]

Thanks for the update Gary, there are a lot of HTPC builds riding on this one

 

[najames]

maglito, thanks for the information. I will hopefully have time to get back to HTPC in the next couple weeks.

I wouldn't exchange the motherboard, nor hold my breath of a smooth working 1080p from onboard video personally. I hope Gary proves me wrong with a working driver.

Have you ever looked at the performance of any onboard graphics compared to the lowest level video card? Even the lowly Nvidia 6200 Turbo Cache card thorougly stomps any onboard video. Graphics card compaines do it for a reason, they have boards for basic business users and want to SELL video cards to everyone else. This is not HD playback but shows a good level of video performance comparisons.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/432/9

Look in the AVSForum it looks for more info on what it takes to run 1080p well. My old Pioneer RPTV only displays 1080i max AFAIK, has component and VGA inputs, so I am 1080p illiterate though.

One of the key reasons I bought a Biostar was so I can install a passive cooled graphics card for HD and still have both PCI slots usable. I intended to use this rig for HTPC work, but like the little Microfly/Biostar/Brisbane system soooo much that I am going to use it for my basic PC instead.

I would like the same system with a 4800 Brisbane for my HTPC work but might go with a desktop style case (or 3U/4U server case) that holds a full ATX board and graphics card so I can use any board/cooler/graphics card. I think changing your case might be your best avenue too.

 

[maglito]

najames: all of the above cards are a moot point because none support HDCP. I have had no luck using early low profile cards that supposedly supported HDCP (Saphire X1600) my posts are documented at AVSforum along with others that had problems with these cards. It is all software decoding with this level of graphics so really, the only problem with all other graphics is lack of HDCP support. But I need a silent 1U solution, so on board is the way to go. I am guessing the problem is the shared graphics memory with main memory. The core really should be sufficient. The VC1 and H.264 decoding on the CPU is probably saturating the memory bandwidth during VBR peaks and causing the lost frames. A driver solution dedicating a portion of memory bandwidth to the graphics core might work. I think what is really needed is a local frame buffer on the core (similar to how the i945 is setup) to do this, but we will see. Thank you so much Gary for digging into this for us, any word on when the G33 based motherboards will be hitting the streets (hopefully with reliable 1080p playback)?

 

[chucky2]

Interesting thoughts maglito...

AMD does have the 690T I think, which as far as I know is the same as 690G but has the capability for one to add dedicated graphics memory directly to the motherboard.

Might be interesting to see if 690T ever makes it out into the wild...

Chuck

 

[najames]

I am HDCP, VC1, H.264 illiterate currently, but as I recall isn't the minimal card something like a Nvidia 7600GT maglito?

I was just providing a link to show how little power the onboard graphics had in comparison to any video card, not as a recommendation.

 

[maglito]

Yeah, the only reason the 7600GT is recommended as a minimum is for HDCP compliance (it is the lowest you can get with reliable HDCP) as all the decoding is done in software the graphics hardware SHOULD be a moot point outside of being able to successfully pass encryption keys to a digital display (aka HDCP). 3D graphics performance has little to do with 2D graphics performance, but I understand where you are coming from and I appreciate the input najames. The more people we have looking into this the better.

 

[BlingBlingArsch]

Gary, what about that 500GB HDD roundup btw? Hope we will see that in May too.

 

[pollyp]

I've had it with waiting... I just ordered the Biostar TA690G - so please say nice things about that board

 

[FireTech]

The thread had slipped back to page 4 - Everyone given up on this review now?

 

[JoeK7]

No, of course not... everyone fell asleep as it was not published up to now ...

Many readers have already ordered there motherboards - as I did I am just curious how this is going to perform in the nearly finished review ...

 

[FireTech]

Gary is teasing us again...

 

[lsman]

how about this?
R69AM427 has a number bigger that 419...
http://www.biostar.cn/driver2005/BIOS/07BIOS/R69AM427.rar

as for TF7050-M2

http://hkepc.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=772485&fpage=1

(doing 355 "FSB" )

an OT question.
is it valid to say because K8 has internal memory controller, it has less problem with memory compatibility than say P965, which each mobo maker write their own BIOS to handle with DDR2?
i.e. memory maker need to put more effect in re-write BIOS for memory support in Intel (because of NB) than with AMD?