Maybe it's just me, but I think the nForce 2 deserves LESS credit than it is getting

[Gerbil333]

I have two nForce 2 systems in my house. Both have been alright...no major problems, but I've had better. Even my Abit KR7A-RAID and it's VIA KT266A chipset made me happier.

The nForce 2 boards seem to be full of bugs. Even after the several revisions of some boards, problems still exist. Off the top of my head:

-MAJOR memory compatibility issues
-Prone to BIOS corruption/Failure to POST
-Incompatibility with some Western Digital hard drives
-IDE corruption
-Some boards have problems with the sound

If VIA had made this chipset, I really doubt it would be selling as well...there are too many people that bash them VIA, and this would just add fuel to the fire.

I am merely pleased with my nForce 2 boards. My old KT133A and KT266A boards seemed to be more solid and problem-free. I think one of the main reasons the nForce 2 has such great user feedback are the abundance of features. It's full of nice stuff. However, I don't care about any of that since there are so many problems! What good is a feature-rich board if it's buggy?

OH: Not only am I merely satisfied with my nForce 2, but I had a horrible experience with an nForce 1, too. I eventually got everything taken care of. So, here's my view:

nVidia Chipsets:
-Lots of Features
-Fast
-OC well
-BUGGY, full of problems

VIA chipsets:
-Not quite as feature rich or quick
-Fewer Issues, greater stability

At least that's how things have been for me. I have my Abit KR7A-RAID running in the other room, and it hasn't crashed since I rebuilt that rig (I had the KR7A in this rig before getting the nForce 2). That was months ago...I can't say that for my nForce 2 It's very stable, but it's not a rock like my KR7A.

 

[Tab]

Its only buggy when you o/c

Okay maybe not but it is pretty damned good. Their isnt any other chipset that comes close.

 

[RedRonin]

Gerbil333 asked, "What good is a feature-rich board if it's buggy?"

Well, that certainly is a great question! The answer of course, is simply no good at all. But I presume this was a rhetorical question, one that has been asked in numerous forums regarding the ECS K7S5A motherboard for the past two years or so... I won't argue that your experience with nForce boards has been anything other than what you state. But the grand majority of reports I have read state the nForce2 boards in particular are incredibly stable across a wide variety of manufacturers and configurations. So there is something I would like you to clarify, or at least expand upon... What are you using your computer for, and when do these problems occur? Are you absolutely certain the problem isn't based elsewhere and that it really is the chipset drivers that are the root of the issues you have endured?

HUN-YA!

Red Ronin

 

[Gerbil333]

No, it's buggy all the time

Okay maybe not but it is pretty damned good. Their isnt any other chipset that comes close.

Maybe not right now...why would I own two if I disagreed? I'm saying it isn't as reliable as I expect a chipset to be. Older Socket A chipsets have had many fewer issues.

What are you using your computer for, and when do these problems occur? Are you absolutely certain the problem isn't based elsewhere and that it really is the chipset drivers that are the root of the issues you have endured?

I use my system for games, IE & Outlook Express, Winamp, MS Word, MSN Messenger, PSP 7, and several other applications, but those are the ones I use daily. I've cleared up my problems (or so it seems), but I shouldn't have had to. This is the first computer I've ever built with so many problems. For example, my single stick of Corsair 256mb XMS2700C2 would UE in Tribes 2 after a few hoursat 133mhz at 2-2-2-6...it had worked great in my KR7A-RAID at that speed for about a year! I had to turn it up to 2-2-3-6. Then I found that a certain Windows Update was causing Outlook Express to crash when I did performed a certain operation (it was consistent)...after several formats and then realizing that, I opted to not install that patch and the problem was gone. I've also had a couple BSOD's since I've had my nForce 2. One was about 15 minutes after trying a different hsf (quieter), so I figured it wasn't seated well, even though temps were normal. I excused that. However, I was doing some stock benchmarks in 3DMark 2001 today, and after one I began surfing and my system BSOD'ed about 5 minutes later -- the computer was not under stress at all! Right before the bench, I'd changed the first boot device from CD-ROM to HD 0 (I'd used a bootable CD earlier). I rebooted after this BSOD and cleared the CMOS and entered all my usual settings. I started back up, checked for stability by running some more benches, and here I am a few hours later as if nothing had happened.

I've done extensive stability tests. I've left the computer running in games all night and all day while I'm not home, and everytime I come back, it's JUST FINE!? memtest86 reports no errors too. Heat isn't an issue. I've got a huge Chieftec tower with rounded cables and excellent cooling. My power supply is great, and I use high quality parts in my computers. In fact, when I got this nForce 2 board, I kept all my old parts (the KR7A was in it before). No problems at all before...identical setup...

So, my computer is stable in games and apps right now, yet I got a BSOD after changing the boot order??? That's retarded! The computer has been flawless all week, and I've done more gaming and computer usage than usual since I had extra days off this week.

My other nForce 2 system has similar issues. High quality parts, good cooling (its CPU runs at about 35-40C), yet it has a bug with 3DMark 2003 (it exits to the desktop)...I met someone else who has also had the 3DMark 2003 bug on theirs, so I know it's probably drivers or something -- this is an nForce 2 IGP system btw. All of its multimedia devices (sound, NIC, video) are on the mobo. The system is stable in everything else. So, that's gotta be a bug since it can be reproduced every single time.

My KR7A hums along perfectly though. Stability-wise, it's the best computer I've got :|

Summary:
-My nForce 2's are stable except for the bugs and BIOS/Memory incompatibility issues
-I'm more happy with my older KT266A because I KNOW it's stable. My nForce 2 may be fine for a few weeks, but it seems like I'm bound to find more bugs.

I use the nVidia 2.03 drives withOUT the IDE driver.

 

[nick1985]

is this a joke? VIA has more bugs than my hair(kt400 especially)

i *did* own the kt400 and it was pure crap, nothing would work right.

bought the a7n8x, 0 problems.

 

[Gerbil333]

Not a joke. I can't comment on the KT400 since I haven't used one, but I can tell you that my older VIA boards were much more reliable (see other posts).

 

[floccus]

Um, you might want to look at every hardware site on the net... cause they seem to think the nForce2 is as good as it really is. Just because you might not think so doesn't make it true.

Also, nForce2 is not to blame for memory issues,
WD drives are all compatible, people just can't set them up right
BIOS corruptions... well, thats what happens when you get a bad flash, but a very small # of people have had that happen in actuality

Also, this is nVidia's second attempt at making a chipset, its 6months old now and still rules the fold. Via has a ton of problems and can't come close to the nForce2 in performance, despite issuing new chipsets..

Come back and try again when you can give me a legitimate arguement....

 

[Iron Woode]

In the interest of fairness:

I had 2 KT400 boards (MSI KT4VL and DFI AD77 Infinity) and they worked beautifully. Not buggy at all.

I have the Epox 8RDA+ and it works just fine. No issues.

The western digital issue that gerbil raised is not a MB issue. It is a drive issue. Stop blaming Nvidia for it.

Gerbil's system instability could be caused by a bad board or flakey hardware, insufficient PSU and not to mention buggy software.

Some ram is not liked by Nforce2 boards. This is unfortunate. Last I heard this is being rectified.

Are you expecting miracles? Give the Nforce2 boards some time to work out the issues. VIA is not issue free by any stretch of the imagination.

You should by a motherboard based on what you need and check out all reviews on it and keep an open mind that there will be issues.

 

[Gerbil333]

Also, this is nVidia's second attempt at making a chipset, its 6months old now and still rules the fold. Via has a ton of problems and can't come close to the nForce2 in performance, despite issuing new chipsets..

I won't deny that the nForce 2 is the fastest chipset. I never said I didn't like it, either. I own two nForce 2 boards. That says something, doesn't it? I'd have to be retarded to buy another if I hated the first one.

Come back and try again when you can give me a legitimate arguement....

How is this not legitimate? I'm not saying I'm right and everyone else is wrong; it's my opinion, indicated by "Maybe it's just me."

I know everyone else likes the nForce 2. I even like it for the most part. Maybe it's just because I'm using an MSI board...

I don't have any problems with my VIA KT266A, and I didn't have any problems with my KT133A a few years ago either. I suppose I'm lucky, but VIA chipsets have been great for me.

What I'm saying is the the nForce 2 is hailed as the king of all chipsets. Sure, it's fast, it's feature rich, and it cuts costs down with it's integrated SoundStorm audio and NIC. However, it's far from perfect. You're acting like the issues don't exist, or they are uncommon. That's completely untrue. A few have already happened to me. As I've said numerous times already, my VIA boards happen to be more reliable than my nForce 2's have been thus far. Bad luck? Could be.

The western digital issue that gerbil raised is not a MB issue. It is a drive issue. Stop blaming Nvidia for it.

Sorry about that. Still, did this happen with other chipsets????

Gerbil's system instability could be caused by a bad board or flakey hardware, insufficient PSU and not to mention buggy software.

PS...I think not: Enermax 431W. All hardware is good too. I mentioned that everything was flawless on my KR7A-RAID, and I simply swapped motherboards (yes, I formatted). It's either the board, or software. Since it's stable 98% of the time, I'm not sure what to think. Hours of gaming = no crashes. It worked perfectly for the past two weeks up until this afternoon when it BSOD's after changing the first Boot Device in the BIOS...loading the defaults and re-entering everything = fine again??? That's buggy...

Some ram is not liked by Nforce2 boards. This is unfortunate. Last I heard this is being rectified.

Although my only problem was that my Corsair XMS2700 was only stable at 2-2-3-6 instead of 2-2-2-6 like it had been for a year on my KR7A, I'm not happy at all about this...

Are you expecting miracles? Give the Nforce2 boards some time to work out the issues. VIA is not issue free by any stretch of the imagination.

Of course I'm not expecting miracles, but given the fact that my older boards never gave me so many problems, I'm not as satisfied as I could be. I like the nForce 2, but I enjoyed my VIA boards more when they were new.

You should [buy] a motherboard based on what you need and check out all reviews on it and keep an open mind that there will be issues.

I did that. I should have gotten the Asus, but some people talked me into the MSI :|

 

[Gerbil333]

Just to show you guys that I'm not using a pile of crap assembled with duct tape...here are my three desktops:

System 1:
MSI K7N2-L w/BIOS v3.2 (came with that)
Athlon XP 2000+ Palomino w/Coolermaster HHC-001 (running stock) running at 39-47C
2x Kingston 256mb HyperX PC3000 @ 2-2-2-6 in slots 1 & 3
MSI GeForce 4 Ti 4200 64mb using Det. 40.72 WHQL's
Sound Blaster Audigy OEM using Audigy 2 drivers
3Com 3C905CTX-100 NIC using latest drivers
Maxtor 40gb ATA133 7,200rpm hd
Lite-On 40x12x48 Black CD-RW drive
Logitech iFeel Optical USB
Samsung SyncMaster 750s 17in monitor
Intel PC Camera Pro
MS Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro
Enermax 431 watt dual fan power supply (EG465P-VE)
Black Round IDE & Floppy cables
Black Aluminum Chieftec Server Tower w/window
Dual Blue LED 80x80x25mm, 3000rpm fans in rear
Dual stock Chieftec 80x80x25, 2500rpm fans in front
Windows XP Pro & nForce 2.03 drivers

System 2:
Abit KR7A-RAID w/BIOS version 6N (flashed once I think)
Athlon XP 1600+ running at 38-45C
Corsair 256mb XMS2700C2 @ 2-2-2-6-1T
MSI GeForce 2 GTS 32mb using Det. 40.72 WHQL's
Sound Blaster Live! Value w/latest Live! drivers
Linksys 10/100 PCI NIC w/latest drivers
HP 8x4x32 CD-RW
IBM 20gb 60gxp ATA100 7,200rpm hd
Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0
Dell 17" Trinitron monitor
Enermax 350 watt dual fan power supply (EG365P-VE)
Green Aluminum Chieftec Server Tower w/window & green cold cathode
Dual stock Chieftec 80x80x25, 2500rpm fans in rear
Windows XP Pro

System 3:
MSI K7N2G-L w/BIOS v3.3 (came with that)
Athlon XP 1700+ TBred A running at 35C-39C
2x Crucial 256mb PC2100 at 2.5-3-3-6 in slots 1 & 3
Integrated GF4MX
Integrated LAN
Integrated Sound
Maxtor 40gb ATA100, 7200rpm hd
Black Lite-On 52x CD-ROM
Black Floppy
Black mid-ATX case w/rheobus
Enermax 350 watt dual fan power supply (EG365P-VE)
Windows XP Pro & nForce 2.03 drivers

-------------------------------------------------------

See? They all have nice RAM (or decent in the case of the third rig), good PSU's, nice cases and cooling, etc. All systems are using good drivers. Almost all parts are from Newegg...all motherboards, RAM, drives, cases, PSU's...most of the stuff. Like I've said, my nForce 2 systems ARE stable. They just have minor bugs occasionally.

 

[Iron Woode]

Actually of all the NF2 boards, the Asus is the most buggy.

The MSI boards are fine boards, just cheaper in price.

I use the same PSU.

There are certain BIOS's that were buggy to start with. You could try flashing to a new BIOS to see if it corrects your issues.

And yes, the WD drive issue happened with other boards too. People reported it with KT400 boards, SIS 735 boards and even some Intel boards.

I was just giving some reasons why systems lose stability.

I use the 2.03 drivers as well, but I use the IDE drivers too. Some people have had issues with them, while I have had no problems at all. Some problems were that burners stopped working or that drive performance took a nose-dive. They show up as scsi drives. I remember when a certain VIA 4-in-1 package did the same thing and there were similar issues.

So there you go. I did the best I could.

 

[Gerbil333]

There are certain BIOS's that were buggy to start with. You could try flashing to a new BIOS to see if it corrects your issues.

My K7N2G-L has the latest BIOS, and my K7N2-L only has a version behind it. They only made two minor changes (added a beep on startup since there was no beep before, and removed the "NO CPU" option from the CPU Voltage menu...kinda strange to start with). So, that wouldn't help, although it was a good idea. Thanks

And yes, the WD drive issue happened with other boards too. People reported it with KT400 boards, SIS 735 boards and even some Intel boards.

Thanks. The only place I'd heard about it was in the MSI nForce 2 forums and amdmb.com's boards...all referred to nForce 2 chipsets.

I use the 2.03 drivers as well, but I use the IDE drivers too. Some people have had issues with them, while I have had no problems at all. Some problems were that burners stopped working or that drive performance took a nose-dive. They show up as scsi drives. I remember when a certain VIA 4-in-1 package did the same thing and there were similar issues.

I've tried both (IDE and no IDE). It had no effect on my system. Really, my nForce 2 systems are not unstable. No computer should crash, and I believe I've got the bugs worked out. From what I have seen, my nForce 2 rig only crashes when I play with the BIOS settings. Once I load the high performance defaults and THEN set it up to my needs, it's alright...which makes no sense. That's the only time it has ever BSOD'ed -- within 10 minutes of messing with the BIOS. And all program crashes I encountered could be reproduced...so I was able to hunt the problem down and fix it. Only Tribes 2 would crash randomly, and that was solved by changing my RAM timings.

Doesn't that sound to you like it's just picky? I don't like picky boards

 

[Iron Woode]

could be!

Would you believe Epox 8RDA+ already has 6 BIOS updates, each one with its own pecularities?

NF2 boards aren't perfect, but they are pretty darn good.

MSI is still my favourite manufacturer though.

 

[McCarthy]

Gerbil333 - I agree. I posted a similar, but much more emotional (I was quite angry) post awhile back.

My issues:
Ran into the problem with a Western Digital 400BB drive. Floccus, thank you for pointing out that you're uninformed and should not be listened to. It's not a matter of 'not knowing how to set up the drive', it doesn't work, period.

Gameport on the Santa Cruz Turtle Beach will not work with a nForce2 board. Is this a major problem? Nah. Not unless you're the one affected anyway.

Since I can't use my Santa Cruz's gameport and since games lock up when even it's drivers are installed on this board I took it out completely. Now I'm having to use a splitter on the speaker out of the onboard sound to have two simple stereo channels - one for speakers and other for headphones. Seems you can have 4.1, 5.1, whatever.1, but can't have two simple stereo outputs.

Because of this board I'm out the use of 1 HD, out the use of 1 sound card. Had to buy a gameport to USB adapter, the $23 product/shipping cost out of my pocket, not nVidia's. Had to buy a splitter for audio. Not sure how to determine the value of the HD and soundcard not being available for my use now, do I count them at purchase price or what I can eBay them for? Point is I shouldn't have to do either.

To get the 0-10% advantage, depending on benchmark, the nForce2 has over the KT333 I could have bought the next speed higher CPU with the money I had to spend because I went nForce. And wouldn't have had the frustration factor.

As for stability, that's a topic that cannot be discussed anywhere on the internet without it becoming a fanboy contest. I'll just say I had neither stability problems with my KT133A nor this nForce2 and leave it at that.

It's curious how the nForce advantages are all hyped and used to show how very bad VIA is. But when there are nForce issues it's explained away as 'it's new' or 'others have it too'.

Is any board perfect? NO.

Is the nForce2 sufficiently superior to the KTxxx board to warrant the recommendations they get by self proclaimed unbiased review sites? NO.

One thing when "JohnnyTheRabidGamer" posts a topic about motherboards or replies to yours with a biased view. Quite another when review sites give the same. But that's what I'm seeing across the internet, lots of applause for the upsides and excuses for the downsides for nVidia. Makes you wonder if your time is better spent reading and investigating in advance or not.

 

[Gerbil333]

But that's what I'm seeing across the internet, lots of applause for the upsides and excuses for the downsides for nVidia.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm thinking. I know that no board is perfect, but everyone is acting like it is, and if there's a problem, they have an excuse.

IMHO, this board is not perfect at all. I've had better. That's what I wanted to convey.

 

[floccus]

Floccus, thank you for pointing out that you're uninformed and should not be listened to. It's not a matter of 'not knowing how to set up the drive', it doesn't work, period.

Thanks, but I am quite informed... maybe I was a little too heated when I posted, and I apologize for what comes out as a flame. I'm just runnning under a lot of stress with finals and papers coming up and the fact that Gerbil blamed certain issues on the chipset that were not its fault just set me off.

There are legitimate issues with WD drives and nForce2, but most people just don't set the drives up correctly and then bitch about it across the net. When the solution is as simple as moving a jumper that you didn't check, I just get a little annoyed. So I apologize, but I feel my point(s) above are still valid.

Also, Gerbil, I appreciate you're admitting your error on some of the issues you raised. In respect I'll buy you a :beer:

 

[Gerbil333]

I'm just runnning under a lot of stress with finals and papers coming up and the fact that Gerbil blamed certain issues on the chipset that were not its fault just set me off.

Same here (stress, finals)...except that random BSOD that popped up this afternoon really pissed me off. I thought my system was finally perfect, and then BOOM, it does something crazy again. It'd been fine for weeks. It's curious that I've only had that problem within 10 minutes of messing with the BIOS, and then reloading it fixes everything.

Also, Gerbil, I appreciate you're admitting your error on some of the issues you raised. In respect I'll buy you a [beer]

Thanks

 

[Killrose]

Just for grins, try your memory in dimm 2 and 3, I had a problem with my 8RDA when running dimm 1 and 3 combination. Try it in the machine that is having the most gamming lock-ups.

 

[Gerbil333]

The thing is, I'm not having ANY lock ups...

 

[cisco]

I'm not sure if its the Nforce2 causing my headaces here, but I have no sound when playing blackhawk Down
Other games have sound (battlefield 1942
I guess I can install a sound card , but it would be nice to have everthing just work.
I'm not overclocking the system,
Epox 8RDA+ , athalon XP 1700, 512mg 2100 DDR, Gfrc4 ti4200 128mg,

someone in this thread mentioned nforces having audio problems , is this one of them?
any help appreciated.

 

[Gerbil333]

You might try starting a new thread. That problem seems worthy of more attention. I'm using the onboard sound on my K7N2G-L and it works fine, but it's not SoundStorm, so I can't help you. Sorry.

 

[cisco]

stared a thread in the software/app section
thanks anyway

 

[Gerbil333]

Ok. You might try the amdmb.com Epox Forums. Those should be helpful.

 

[McCarthy]

floccus, yeah I was harsh too. Whole thing just gets me angry. Board works fine now that I've eliminated a number of pieces of hardware....the two evenings I wasted on this thing entitles me to an equal amount of hours of bitching about legitimate problems though. So far I've only spent a few minutes typing about it, plenty left in reserve

As for the WD drive. I set it: Master, single drive. Master, with slave drive. Slave. Cable select single. Cable select dual drives as both primary and secondary. Tried pairing it with another WD, with a Maxtor, always the same result.

Each of those combinations with two differnet sets of cables. Tried the same routine on the secondary IDE controller. No matter what setting I selected the computer would post, get to IDE detection and stall. Couldn't enter bios. Wouldn't go further. Obviously had it set to auto detect since I couldn't get into bios to detect and save settings.

Have heard about WD having problems where they will only work when set to cable select on some iNTEL boards. That's what I thought I had at first. But no matter what setting, it didn't work. Pulled the drive out, tried in another machine, still just fine. Seems odd that when I bring up a drive that works with a LX chipset board, a BX and a KT133A, but doesn't work with a nForce2 people come to the nForce2's defense, ya know?

To set up my KT133A:
Put board in case. Install other hardware. Delete OS from BX, reinstall OS. Install 4in1's. Compute

To set up my nForce2:
Put board in case. Install other hardware. Fight with HDs for hours. Get on net with another computer, find out WD/nForce problem. Put KT133A back together. Burn a few dozen CDs until another drive has space to reinstall OS/apps. Install them. Install chipset drivers. (just like doing 4in1s..from the included CD) Find out gameport doesn't work. Back to the internet. Find out Santa Cruz/nForce problem. Head over to pccables to buy gameport to USB adapter. Miss weekend league event. Post a rant. Get calmed down. Compute. Find this thread a few weeks later. Participate. That brings this experience up to current.

So you see why it gets me angry :frown:

 

[wicktron]

I've had no problems other than lockups unless overclocking too high. kthxbye.