There's no way the Russians sold an advanced SAM system to a bunch of yahoo rebels. I'm sure they're operating the SAM sites, even if not doing so under their flag.
so was it the Russians or the separatists who brought the plane down?
Someone looks to be starting a translate of it on the reddit feed
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/pravolivo?origi...914/0&tw_i=489853711335051264&tw_p=tweetembed
Wow, US shot down a plane over Iran?
Iran Air Flight 655 was an Iran Air civilian passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai that was shot down by the United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes on 3 July 1988. The attack took place in Iranian airspace, over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, and on the flight's usual flight path. The aircraft, an Airbus A300 B2-203, was destroyed by SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles fired from the Vincennes.
All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died.[1] This attack ranks tenth among the deadliest disasters in aviation history, the incident retains the highest death toll of any aviation incident in the Persian Gulf and the highest death toll of any incident involving an Airbus aircraft anywhere in the world.[2] The Vincennes had entered Iranian territorial waters after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits.[3]
According to the Iranian government, Vincennes negligently shot down the civilian aircraft: the airliner was making IFF squawks in Mode III (not Mode II used by Iranian military planes), a signal that identified it as a civilian craft, and operators of Vincennes mistook for Mode II.[4]
According to the United States Government, the crew incorrectly identified the Iranian Airbus A300 as an attacking F-14 Tomcat fighter (a plane made in the United States and operated at that time by only two forces worldwide, the United States Navy and the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force).
The event generated a great deal of controversy and criticism of the United States. Some analysts have blamed U.S. military commanders and the captain of Vincennes for reckless and aggressive behavior in a tense and dangerous environment.[5][6]
In 1996, the United States and Iran reached "an agreement in full and final settlement of all disputes, differences, claims, counterclaims" relating to the incident at the International Court of Justice.[7] As part of the settlement, the United States agreed to pay US$61.8 million, an average of $213,103.45 per passenger, in compensation to the families of the Iranian victims. However, the United States has never admitted responsibility, nor apologized to Iran.[8]
To this day, Iran Air still uses flight number IR655 on the TehranDubai route as a memorial to the victims, contrary to the informal convention amongst many other airlines that discontinue flight numbers associated with tragedies.
Shoulder-held MANPAD missiles are popular with guerrilla groups worldwide but the Malaysian Airlines plane would have been flying above 10,000 metres, well beyond their range. The Buk, which the Ukrainian interior minister, Anton Gerashenko, blamed for the attack, has a range of 22,000 metres.
Pentagon spokesman Rear Admiral John Kirby said US secretary of defence, Chuck Hagel, had been briefed on the crash, but Kirby was unable to confirm details of what happened or what the US knew.
Nato surveillance planes policing the Baltic states were unable to identify the source of the attack.
Igor Sutyagin, a Russian military specialist at the London-based Royal United Services Institute, said that he believed that either Russians or Russian supported groups in eastern Ukraine were responsible. He said they had been shooting at Ukrainian aircraft over the last week.
Kalashnikov-carrying Russian sympathisers in Ukraine would not have had the expertise to use the Buk system and would have needed either specialists who had "volunteered" their services from Russia or locally-recruited specialists. Russia is alleged to have infiltrated special forces into Ukraine under the guise of being rebels.
Sutyagin, who monitors social media in the Ukraine, said a Ukrainian rebel force had been spotted just hours earlier with a Buk at Torez, a village close to the site where the plane came down.
He added that a Ukrainian transport plane had been flying overhead close to the time that the missile was fired at the Malaysia Airlines plane, suggesting that may have been the original target. The transport plane had been trying to relieve a beleaguered Ukraine garrison.
The Buk, dubbed "Grizzly" by Nato, was developed by the USSR in the 1970s to shoot down cruise and other missiles. It has since gone through many redesigns and upgrades, and been widely exported. Ukraine forces also use Buk.
Ukrainian forces have been making headway against rebel forces recently and Russia has adopted a strategy of denying them air space, forcing them instead to restrict them to the use of troops on the ground.
The Russian government, pro-Russian forces and the Ukrainian government were all shifting the blame for the shooting down of the Malaysia Airlines plane. But most of the recent incidents of planes being shot down have allegedly been the result of fire from either Russia or pro-Russian rebels.
...
Jonathan Eyal, director of the Royal United Services Institute, said it was not a matter of climbing aboard a van and pressing a button. Firing a missile required knowledge of how to use radar, how to lock onto a target and a host of other steps beyond the average Kalashnikov carrying rebel.
"If the plane was shot down, it could only have been shot down by a state authority," Eyal said, adding either Russia or Ukraine, or by a group in Ukraine helped by Russia. On balance, he said he thought the blame rested with Russia.
The Buk, he said, "definitely has the range and is mobile and could be fired by Russians or Russian separatists. It amounts to a massive, massive escalation".
Eyal added: "The only country that has a persistent policy of trying to prevent Ukrainians controlling air space is Russia. Russia has taken an interest in shooting down aircraft and forcing Ukraine to use ground troops."
There's no way the Russians sold an advanced SAM system to a bunch of yahoo rebels. I'm sure they're operating the SAM sites, even if not doing so under their flag.
I think the claim is that the rebels captured the buk from the UkrainiansThere's no way the Russians sold an advanced SAM system to a bunch of yahoo rebels. I'm sure they're operating the SAM sites, even if not doing so under their flag.
Not over Iran. An Iranian airliner.
Someone looks to be starting a translate of it on the reddit feed
Read the thread, man.
I think the claim is that the rebels captured the buk from the Ukrainians
I wouldn't say it had to be a russian at the trigger, but one likely recently gave enough training for them to fire the weapon and likely is still in the area giving support.
Not over Iran. An Iranian airliner.
I (seriously) at this point would think twice if I had any travel plans that involved flying over the Ukrainian/Russian airspace.
Whew.A spokeswoman for German flag carrier Lufthansa told AFP it has decided to immediately make a "wide detour" around the area, and added: "Our passenger's safety is our top priority."
My colleague Dan Milmo in London reports that it has been normal practice for airlines to fly over conflict zones since the Ukraine conflict began. He interviewed a pilot for a major European airline:
"We would often avoid areas where there is air-to-air conflict, but we flew over Iraq and Afghanistan when the British and US armed forces were delpoyed there, because only one side was using military jets."
Explaining why airlines fly over conflict zones where groups might be in possession of ground-to-air missiles, the pilot said: "There will be weapons based on the ground when you are at 30,000 feet, but that is far up in the air. There are not many missile systems that can be so accurate."
His comments suggest that assumptions about weapons capabilities on the ground will have to be reevaluated, pending investigation of the crash
Any translation?
Any translation?