Maybe Malaysia should stop flying planes: 777 crashed in Ukraine

[jpeyton]

Yeah, and the Ukrainians are shooting down their own military airplanes and helicopters, killing hundreds of their own soldiers in the process...

Nobody cares about their military planes getting shot down in a military conflict. Back page news.

Guess what will be on the front page tomorrow?

 

[alkemyst]

Yeah, and the Ukrainians are shooting down their own military airplanes and helicopters, killing hundreds of their own soldiers in the process...

I am beginning to think you don't understand anything.

 

[Bee4945]

Rip mas #mh17

 

[Dari]

Nobody cares about their military planes getting shot down in a military conflict. Back page news.

Guess what will be on the front page tomorrow?

You are a fucking moron if you think they've been killing themselves in order to garner sympathy and, since that did not work, decided to take out a civilian aircraft. You do realize that we are monitoring this war intensely, right? You also realize we have people on the ground, too, right? Some were even kidnapped. Ukraine would not shoot down a civvie from an allied nation. Fuck, the debris hasn't stopped smoldering and people are already starting with their stupid conspiracy theories.

I am beginning to think you don't understand anything.

I think you should go back to your M3 or lie to us some more about MIT seeking you out or how you're such a tough guy or whatever.

 

[Exterous]

What is your position here? That it is silly to stop flying commercial airplanes through an area where planes are being shot down in an active war(?) zone?

That seems a bit of a stretch since I never said anything close to that. In fact I gave a very specific reason they should not continue to fly over so it makes no sense to suggest what you did.

My posts are in response to all those shocked\angered\incredulous that planes were flying through this airspace and calling for top Malaysian officials to step down. MH was hardly alone in a practice that has been going on for decades with no incidents. Hell Singapore Airlines and Air India both had planes within 25km of MH17 which is well within the range of the Buk missile system but I don't see anyone calling for their jobs. The IATA had no prohibitions against flying over the Ukraine above 30,000' and I don't see anyone calling for their jobs either

This is a tragic situation no doubt about it. Still given the history of planes successfully flying over conflicted countries this is not a practice I expect will change long term. Obviously not for every conflict but I expect the IATA will continue to sanction flight paths along the same methodology they currently use.

 

[Printer Bandit]

If Jack Bauer was on that plane, the missile would have missed, back tracked and landed on the sender.

 

[alkemyst]

If Jack Bauer was on that plane, the missile would have missed, back tracked and landed on the sender.

Don't be a dick, people died.

I am sure your type is like "not in my backyard, #YOLO"

 

[Printer Bandit]

Don't be a dick, people died.

I am sure your type is like "not in my backyard, #YOLO"

lighten up. how many people die everyday around the world?

 

[William Gaatjes]

The numbers have changed a bit, from the news conference of Malaysian Airlines.
MH17 :
15 Malaysian flight crew.
173 Dutch passengers.
27 Australian passengers.
44 Malaysian passengers.
12 Indonesian passengers.
9 British Passengers.
4 German passengers.
3 Filipino passengers.
1 Canadian passenger.
1 New Zealand passenger.

6 people are still unaccounted for to my knowledge.

Rest In Peace everybody... :'(

 

[William Gaatjes]

The rebellions have announced a "cease fire" for 4 days to allow investigators from Malaysian airlines safe passage to the crash site.
The Rebels are helping gathering parts of the plain and bodies of the victims.
This could either be a good gesture or be used as a means to hide any evidence that the plain was possibly shot down.

Putin called dutch premier Rutte. Putin is using this tragedy as a means to end the Ukranian conflict.
Putin wants an independent investigation.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Conversation Between Putin and Rutte in English.

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741278

 

[Dari]

The rebellions have announced a "cease fire" for 4 days to allow investigators from Malaysian airlines safe passage to the crash site.
The Rebels are helping gathering parts of the plain and bodies of the victims.
This could either be a good gesture or be used as a means to hide any evidence that the plain was possibly shot down.

Putin called dutch premier Rutte. Putin is using this tragedy as a means to end the Ukranian conflict.
Putin wants an independent investigation.

They've probably been trying to hide as much as possible as fast as possible. But they already know everyone blames them (and the Russians), or that will be the overriding narrative going forward.

 

[Exterous]

Australian family lost family members on both Malaysian Airlines crashes...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-family-who-lost-two-members-on-flight-mh370-have-lost-two-more-on-mh17-9614230.html

 

[sdifox]

I just read on cbc that there may have been a hundred scientists on their way to Aids conference in Australia on that plane.

 

[Rakehellion]

If it hasn't already been posted, 23 Americans on the plane confirmed dead.

Looks like we're going to fight another war then.

 

[IEC]

Well, I'm not sure the hardware or know-how was necessarily Russian, in the Russia-which-is-outside-Ukraine sense.
The hardware could simply be stolen or deserted Ukrainian hardware, and the operators could well be Ukrainian deserters. If they're operating as Cossacks, they may have had training in Russia as well, while actually being locals of the region.

But all of that doesn't really matter, if Russia lets them get away scot-free with it, and continue their support of these forces.

The operators probably weren't big pros, because then they wouldn't have messed up the intercept, and properly checked for IFF first. This sound more like some trigger-happy wise and beautiful woman wanting to play with their high-tech toy, and messing it up.

The "Ukrainian separatists" (i.e. Russian, Cossack, Chechen soldiers and former soldiers) are likely the culprits.
1. All airliners have transponders
2. Both the Ukrainian and the Russian armies receive real-time data from Eurocontrol
3. Pro-Russian "separatists" are not linked to Eurocontrol
4. The flight had already traversed most of Ukraine without issues (going from Amsterdam to KL)

To use such a launcher requires a considerable degree of training. No amateur is going to be able to figure out how to use this:

Then there is all the circumstantial evidence of the rebels celebrating a plane shootdown around the same time as MH17 lost contact claiming they had shot down a Ukrainian cargo plane. Then hastily deleting those social media posts as they realized it was a civilian jetliner.

 

[lupi]

Scientist story may be true, a snippet in another story I saw mention that Bill new several of the passengers from work with his foundation so that could be some overlap.

 

[preslove]

The numbers have changed a bit, from the news conference of Malaysian Airlines.
MH17 :
15 Malaysian flight crew.
173 Dutch passengers.
27 Australian passengers.
44 Malaysian passengers.
12 Indonesian passengers.
9 British Passengers.
4 German passengers.
3 Filipino passengers.
1 Canadian passenger.
1 New Zealand passenger.

6 people are still unaccounted for to my knowledge.

Rest In Peace everybody... :'(

Yeah, no Americans announced, yet. Putin lucked out on that front. I doubt France will end up selling those helicopter carriers to Russia, though. Plus a hell of a lot of sanctions.

The "Ukrainian separatists" (i.e. Russian, Cossack, Chechen soldiers and former soldiers) are likely the culprits.
1. All airliners have transponders
2. Both the Ukrainian and the Russian armies receive real-time data from Eurocontrol
3. Pro-Russian "separatists" are not linked to Eurocontrol
4. The flight had already traversed most of Ukraine without issues (going from Amsterdam to KL)

To use such a launcher requires a considerable degree of training. No amateur is going to be able to figure out how to use this:

Then there is all the circumstantial evidence of the rebels celebrating a plane shootdown around the same time as MH17 lost contact claiming they had shot down a Ukrainian cargo plane. Then hastily deleting those social media posts as they realized it was a civilian jetliner.

Exactly. These aren't random deserters, but Russian paramilitary forces engaged in false flag operations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag.

 

[Imp]

The numbers have changed a bit, from the news conference of Malaysian Airlines.
MH17 :
15 Malaysian flight crew.
173 Dutch passengers.
27 Australian passengers.
44 Malaysian passengers.
12 Indonesian passengers.
9 British Passengers.
4 German passengers.
3 Filipino passengers.
1 Canadian passenger.
1 New Zealand passenger.

6 people are still unaccounted for to my knowledge.

Rest In Peace everybody... :'(

No more 23 Americans. Estimate from yesterday wasn't any good.

 

[_Rick_]

Yeah, no Americans announced, yet. Putin lucked out on that front. I doubt France will end up selling those helicopter carriers to Russia, though. Plus a hell of a lot of sanctions.



Exactly. These aren't random deserters, but Russian paramilitary forces engaged in false flag operations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag.

Even random deserters could have trained on a Buk while in the Army. It's a pretty common system, and while it sure looks intimidating at first glance, I'm pretty positive you can figure out the basic operation from reading the hand book for half a day. Setting up the SR should be simply following instructions, hooking up the FCR to the SR signal might take a bit of fidgeting, and getting the missile's HR to receive the FCR echo would also require looking up where to enter the settings. I'm pretty sure a lot of these controls are for integrating into larger batteries, and setting up the network between SR, FCR and TEL. The former isn't necessary, and the latter should be a simlpe step-by-step that anyone can do from a manual.

 

[rcpratt]

Obama just confirmed at least 1 American citizen on board.

 

[Printer Bandit]

Putin was returning from the World Cup and they were trying to shoot down his plane, which looked like MH17 and would have crossed the same area.

 

[preslove]

Even random deserters could have trained on a Buk while in the Army. It's a pretty common system, and while it sure looks intimidating at first glance, I'm pretty positive you can figure out the basic operation from reading the hand book for half a day. Setting up the SR should be simply following instructions, hooking up the FCR to the SR signal might take a bit of fidgeting, and getting the missile's HR to receive the FCR echo would also require looking up where to enter the settings. I'm pretty sure a lot of these controls are for integrating into larger batteries, and setting up the network between SR, FCR and TEL. The former isn't necessary, and the latter should be a simlpe step-by-step that anyone can do from a manual.

Uh... you know nothing about Russia's strategy for holding onto border states. What I have been describing is exactly what Russia did in Georgia in 2008. You have to be really ignorant of Russian tactics to not understand that those are Russian trained Ukrainians, Cossacks, and Russian intelligence officers who are using old Russian equipment. This has been pretty well covered.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...wning-of-the-malaysian-air-flight-accidental/

Instead it seems more likely that the Buk was provided by Russia along with any necessary training. This is supported by U.S. and Ukrainian reports last month that Russia had provided tanks and other heavy equipment to the separatists. Notably both the tanks alleged to have been provided (T-64s) and the Buk are older Soviet-era equipment that Russia would not miss but would also be plausibly present in Ukrainian arsenals. This allows the Russians to retain a figleaf of plausible deniability about the equipment.

You have to be completely ill-informed, naive, and just plain dumb to not understand that this Russia's strategy of using false flag tactics to fight a war of aggression against a neighboring former USSR state.

Just STFU and go read about Russia's 2008 Georgia war and stop spouting your ignorant opinions.

 

[luv2liv]

tragic event.
Obama saying at least 1 american aboard. but im very confused why in this day and age we cant get a definite number. so they dont have a record who boarded the plane? for real???

 

[Pantoot]

tragic event.
Obama saying at least 1 american aboard. but im very confused why in this day and age we cant get a definite number. so they dont have a record who boarded the plane? for real???

It doesn't explain it away, but they came out and said that there was nobody flying with a US passport. The deceased must have had dual citizenship, and was flying with their other passport. I imagine tracking down those people takes more time.