Mayor slams Blanco for Stalling

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Also from the plan conjur linked:

Nothing in this plan alters or impedes the ability of
Federal, State, local, or tribal departments and agencies
to carry out their specific authorities or perform their
responsibilities under all applicable laws, Executive
orders, and directives. Additionally, nothing in this
plan is intended to impact or impede the ability of any
Federal department or agency head to take an issue of
concern directly to the President, the Assistant to the
President for Homeland Security, the Assistant to the
President for National Security Affairs, or any other
member of the President?s staff.

Also noted by K1052:

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: rahvin
I'll say it, the governer was incompetent and the president should have nationalized the effort on tuesday. Instead he waited until fvcking friday to care. In fact I've been saying that all along. Why didn't he put lives above politics and nationalize the LA guard and take over the rescue efforts by declaring marshal law in the area?

For the president to have overridden the local/state governments and sent in federal active duty soldiers to enforce law and order (or force evacuations by use of military force) he would have violated the Posse Comitatus Act.

His critics would now be trying to string him up with violation of an actual law instead of claiming his slow response was because he just didn't care.

Of course. The Bush critics are consistently setting up damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. They'll whine either way.

Yes, noted by K1052 and made moot by the wording I quoted above.

Once the President declared a Federal Disaster Area, the Feds became the primary responsibility for the relief effort. NRP should have been enacted to save lives as the local and state resources were overwhelmed.

You are fos.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/editorial/editorial_0569.xml

Emphasis on Local Response

All incidents are handled at the lowest possible organizational and jurisdictional level. Police, fire, public health and medical, emergency management, and other personnel are responsible for incident management at the local level. For those events that rise to the level of an Incident of National Significance, the Department of Homeland Security provides operational and/or resource coordination for Federal support to on-scene incident command structures.

Additionally, the plan you linked spells out Roles and Responsiblities very clearly (It's section III, in case you haven't actually read it and are C&Ping your stuff from KOS again). Federal response is in coordination with and is an adjunct to local and state response. It does not replace it.

If you care to read the NPR itself on Catastrophic Events you will find this.

Standard procedures regarding requests for assistance
may be expedited or, under extreme circumstances,
suspended in the immediate aftermath of an event of
catastrophic magnitude.
¦ Identified Federal response resources will deploy and
begin necessary operations as required to commence
life-safety activities.
¦ Notification and full coordination with States will occur,
but the coordination process must not delay or impede
the rapid deployment and use of critical resources.
States are urged to notify and coordinate with local
governments regarding a proactive Federal response.
¦ State and local governments are encouraged to
conduct collaborative planning with the Federal
Government as a part of ?steady-state? preparedness
for catastrophic incidents.


As noted above, requests by the local governments are not needed, and co-ordination while desireable is not a requirement during a catastrophe, and the Katrina aftermath qualifies as a catastrophe.

Edit: Looking through the posts, this is the same as Conjur posted. It comes directly from the Plan itself.

Argue with it.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Condor
Can you imagine whaqt you libs would be screaming if he had done thaqt? I think we are seeing the problem here.

And the only response the forum can generate to the accusation is to say that the president should put politics above lives. :thumbsup: Cause all you defenders hold raving lunatics like bbond up to such a level that you care what he thinks and not what middle america does.

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: zendari
Text

Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco has been critical of the Bush administration's response to the disastrous aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, but, according to the mayor of New Orleans, her indecision when President Bush offered help delayed rescue efforts and cost lives.

Mr. Bush met privately first with Mrs. Blanco, then called Mr. Nagin in for a meeting.
"He called me in that office," Mr. Nagin said. "And he said, 'Mr. Mayor, I offered two options to the governor.' I was ready to move. The governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision."
That decision was a request by Mr. Bush to allow the federal government to take over the evacuation of New Orleans, which had been marked by chaos for days. The Democratic governor, who has clashed behind the scenes with the Bush administration since the storm hit, refused.

Mr. Bush, at the request of Mrs. Blanco, declared the entire state of Louisiana a disaster area 48 hours before the hurricane made landfall. He also asked Mrs. Blanco to order a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans on Aug. 27 -- two days before the hurricane hit -- but she did not make the order until Aug. 28.


How many lives were lost by the governor's inability to lead? If you can't handle your job and you want the feds to take over you should at least listen to what they say and offer your national guard.

Why should she have hand over control when the fed wasn't even there yet? Clearly the fed was able to come with out that paper signed because they did. What would have been gained by giving bush control?

 

[imported_Pedro69]

http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=976

Date: 8/27/2005


Contact: Denise Bottcher or Roderick Hawkins at 225-342-9037


Governor Blanco asks President to Declare an Emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina


BATON ROUGE?Today Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco forwarded a letter to President Bush requesting that he declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina. The full text of the letter follows:

August 27, 2005


The President
The White House
Washington, D. C.

Through:
Regional Director
FEMA Region VI
800 North Loop 288
Denton, Texas 76209

Dear Mr. President:

Under the provisions of Section 501 (a) of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 5121-5206 (Stafford Act), and implemented by 44 CFR § 206.35, I request that you declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina for the time period beginning August 26, 2005, and continuing. The affected areas are all the southeastern parishes including the New Orleans Metropolitan area and the mid state Interstate I-49 corridor and northern parishes along the I-20 corridor that are accepting the thousands of citizens evacuating from the areas expecting to be flooded as a result of Hurricane Katrina.

In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan.

Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal.

Preliminary estimates of the types and amount of emergency assistance needed under the Stafford Act, and emergency assistance from certain Federal agencies under other statutory authorities are tabulated in Enclosure A.

The following information is furnished on the nature and amount of State and local resources that have been or will be used to alleviate the conditions of this emergency:
? Department of Social Services (DSS): Opening (3) Special Need Shelters (SNS) and establishing (3) on Standby.
? Department of Health and Hospitals (DHH): Opening (3) Shelters and establishing (3) on Standby.
? Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness (OHSEP): Providing generators and support staff for SNS and Public Shelters.
? Louisiana State Police (LSP): Providing support for the phased evacuation of the coastal areas.
? Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries (WLF): Supporting the evacuation of the affected population and preparing for Search and Rescue Missions.


Mr. President
Page Two
August 27, 2005


? Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development (DOTD): Coordinating traffic flow and management of the evacuations routes with local officials and the State of Mississippi.



The following information is furnished on efforts and resources of other Federal agencies, which have been or will be used in responding to this incident:
? FEMA ERT-A Team en-route.

I certify that for this emergency, the State and local governments will assume all applicable non-Federal share of costs required by the Stafford Act.

I request Direct Federal assistance for work and services to save lives and protect property.

(a) List any reasons State and local government cannot perform or contract for performance, (if applicable).

(b) Specify the type of assistance requested.

In accordance with 44 CFR § 206.208, the State of Louisiana agrees that it will, with respect to Direct Federal assistance:

1. Provide without cost to the United States all lands, easement, and rights-of-ways necessary to accomplish the approved work.

2. Hold and save the United States free from damages due to the requested work, and shall indemnify the Federal Government against any claims arising from such work;

3. Provide reimbursement to FEMA for the non-Federal share of the cost of such work in accordance with the provisions of the FEMA-State Agreement; and

4. Assist the performing Federal agency in all support and local jurisdictional matters.

In addition, I anticipate the need for debris removal, which poses an immediate threat to lives, public health, and safety.

Pursuant to Sections 502 and 407 of the Stafford Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 5192 & 5173, the State agrees to indemnify and hold harmless the United States of America for any claims arising from the removal of debris or wreckage for this disaster. The State agrees that debris removal from public and private property will not occur until the landowner signs an unconditional authorization for the removal of debris.


I have designated Mr. Art Jones as the State Coordinating Officer for this request. He will work with the Federal Emergency Management Agency in damage assessments and may provide further information or justification on my behalf.

Sincerely,




Kathleen Babineaux Blanco
Governor
Enclosure


ENCLOSURE A TO EMERGENCY REQUEST


Estimated requirements for other Federal agency programs:
? Department of Social Services (DSS): Opening (3) Special Need Shelters (SNS) and establishing (3) on Standby. Costs estimated at $500,000 per week for each in operation.
? Department of Health and Hospitals (DHH): Opening (3) Shelters and establishing (3) on Standby. Costs estimated at $500,000 per week for each in operation.
? Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness (OHSEP): Providing generators and support staff for SNS and Public Shelters. Costs estimated to range from $250,000-$500,000 to support (6) Shelter generator operations.
? Louisiana State Police (LSP): Costs to support evacuations - $300,000 for a non-direct landfall.
? Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries (WLF): Costs to support evacuations - $200,000 for a non-direct landfall.
? Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development (DOTD): Costs to support evacuations - $2,000,000 for a non-direct landfall.


Totals: $ 9,000,000

Estimated Requirements for assistance under the Stafford Act:

Coordination: $0
Technical and advisory assistance: $0
Debris removal: $0
Emergency protective measures: $ 9,000,000
Individuals and Households Program (IHP): $0
Distribution of emergency supplies: $0
Other (specify): $0

Totals: $ 9,000,000
Grand Total: $ 9,000,000

 

[imported_Condor]

Lets see now if I have this right. The libs are now blameing Bush because he didn't take command of the state from the Democratic, duly elected officials so that he could have declared martial law and save dhousands? Is that what I'm really reading?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Pedro69

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Pedro69
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
August 27, 2005

Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana

The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing.

The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under Title V of the Stafford Act, to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in the parishes of Allen, Avoyelles, Beauregard, Bienville, Bossier, Caddo, Caldwell, Claiborne, Catahoula, Concordia, De Soto, East Baton Rouge, East Carroll, East Feliciana, Evangeline, Franklin, Grant, Jackson, LaSalle, Lincoln, Livingston, Madison, Morehouse, Natchitoches, Pointe Coupee, Ouachita, Rapides, Red River, Richland, Sabine, St. Helena, St. Landry, Tensas, Union, Vernon, Webster, West Carroll, West Feliciana, and Winn.

Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Debris removal and emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance, will be provided at 75 percent Federal funding.

Representing FEMA, Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Department of Homeland Security, named William Lokey as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in the affected area.

The Bucket stops by the president

Read the part you bolded again. I'll underline a very important word that it contains, to point it out for you:

The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing.

Which they did not sufficiently. Case closed.

"The Bucket stops by the president"

Switching gears, eh? What closed is not the case, it's your mind. But that's clear to everyone already.

fyi as well, It's "Buck" not "Bucket."

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Also from the plan conjur linked:

Nothing in this plan alters or impedes the ability of
Federal, State, local, or tribal departments and agencies
to carry out their specific authorities or perform their
responsibilities under all applicable laws, Executive
orders, and directives. Additionally, nothing in this
plan is intended to impact or impede the ability of any
Federal department or agency head to take an issue of
concern directly to the President, the Assistant to the
President for Homeland Security, the Assistant to the
President for National Security Affairs, or any other
member of the President?s staff.

Also noted by K1052:

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: rahvin
I'll say it, the governer was incompetent and the president should have nationalized the effort on tuesday. Instead he waited until fvcking friday to care. In fact I've been saying that all along. Why didn't he put lives above politics and nationalize the LA guard and take over the rescue efforts by declaring marshal law in the area?

For the president to have overridden the local/state governments and sent in federal active duty soldiers to enforce law and order (or force evacuations by use of military force) he would have violated the Posse Comitatus Act.

His critics would now be trying to string him up with violation of an actual law instead of claiming his slow response was because he just didn't care.

Of course. The Bush critics are consistently setting up damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. They'll whine either way.

Yes, noted by K1052 and made moot by the wording I quoted above.

Once the President declared a Federal Disaster Area, the Feds became the primary responsibility for the relief effort. NRP should have been enacted to save lives as the local and state resources were overwhelmed.

You are fos.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/editorial/editorial_0569.xml

Emphasis on Local Response

All incidents are handled at the lowest possible organizational and jurisdictional level. Police, fire, public health and medical, emergency management, and other personnel are responsible for incident management at the local level. For those events that rise to the level of an Incident of National Significance, the Department of Homeland Security provides operational and/or resource coordination for Federal support to on-scene incident command structures.

Additionally, the plan you linked spells out Roles and Responsiblities very clearly (It's section III, in case you haven't actually read it and are C&Ping your stuff from KOS again). Federal response is in coordination with and is an adjunct to local and state response. It does not replace it.

If you care to read the NPR itself on Catastrophic Events you will find this.

Standard procedures regarding requests for assistance
may be expedited or, under extreme circumstances,
suspended in the immediate aftermath of an event of
catastrophic magnitude.
¦ Identified Federal response resources will deploy and
begin necessary operations as required to commence
life-safety activities.
¦ Notification and full coordination with States will occur,
but the coordination process must not delay or impede
the rapid deployment and use of critical resources.
States are urged to notify and coordinate with local
governments regarding a proactive Federal response.
¦ State and local governments are encouraged to
conduct collaborative planning with the Federal
Government as a part of ?steady-state? preparedness
for catastrophic incidents.


As noted above, requests by the local governments are not needed, and co-ordination while desireable is not a requirement during a catastrophe, and the Katrina aftermath qualifies as a catastrophe.

Edit: Looking through the posts, this is the same as Conjur posted. It comes directly from the Plan itself.

Argue with it.

Shhh...don't bother TLC with something that goes against his blame the low-man/Bush apologist agenda.

The Bush can do no wrong in that liberal's eyes.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: UpGrD

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: UpGrD
If Bush would have slapped down a Women Dem Gov. and taken over the state against the Gov's will, most of the hate filled disaster experts here (along with the press) would have said "there go's cowboy Bush again", "no repect for a women in authority", "cant trust a black mayor", "he's a dictator"..............................
No matter how he would have handled this situation it would not have been correct in some way. The timeline ist just now beginning to get layed out. The more information we see the more damning it is for the LOCAL responce or lack there of..............

Of the arguments so far against direct intervention by the President this is the weakest. The President is acting in Iraq because he thinks it's the thing to do regardless of substantial criticism. My opinion of his actions is irrelevant.

In this case we have a genuine, concrete emergency. No hypothetical WMDs. Taking heat for aiding in a true emergency is something any President can and should ignore.

Unfortunately the Constitution disagrees with you. The Pres has all authority offshore (in the case of Iraq, with the authority of congress)
However within the U.S. The Pres has limited authority over the states. The Pres can in some cases over rule state matters but there are VERY strict rules regarding this. There is actually an argument that can be made that the Pres broke the law by doing the things he did before the Gov gave him authority on Wed when she made the formal request for Fed assistance..........

Read the NPR link that I posted to above. The President has great authority within the borders of the US. Certain acts are forbidden, however the courts have sided with Presidents in the past when they have declared martial law, and indeed there are situations when they can act without doing so.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: zendari
Supposedly Mayor Nagin endorsed Blanco's opponent in the election. No wonder she doesn't hold him in the highest regard.

I'm starting to have some respect for him! The jury is still out, but he is looking better as the records are opened and the history is made..

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: zendari
Supposedly Mayor Nagin endorsed Blanco's opponent in the election. No wonder she doesn't hold him in the highest regard.

I'm starting to have some respect for him! The jury is still out, but he is looking better as the records are opened and the history is made..

I'm not sure, but I think he's a converted Republican... I think he did it in 2002. Take that with a grain though.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Condor
Lets see now if I have this right. The libs are now blameing Bush because he didn't take command of the state from the Democratic, duly elected officials so that he could have declared martial law and save dhousands? Is that what I'm really reading?

Some may make this argument. Mine would be that he has the authority and indeed duty to do so (this is applicable to any President you care to name). One of the questions in my mind is when would it have been proper moment to exercise this power given what he could have known at the beginning of the crisis.

I don't know the answer to that last point.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Pedro69

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Pedro69
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
August 27, 2005

Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana

The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing.

The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under Title V of the Stafford Act, to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in the parishes of Allen, Avoyelles, Beauregard, Bienville, Bossier, Caddo, Caldwell, Claiborne, Catahoula, Concordia, De Soto, East Baton Rouge, East Carroll, East Feliciana, Evangeline, Franklin, Grant, Jackson, LaSalle, Lincoln, Livingston, Madison, Morehouse, Natchitoches, Pointe Coupee, Ouachita, Rapides, Red River, Richland, Sabine, St. Helena, St. Landry, Tensas, Union, Vernon, Webster, West Carroll, West Feliciana, and Winn.

Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Debris removal and emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance, will be provided at 75 percent Federal funding.

Representing FEMA, Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Department of Homeland Security, named William Lokey as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in the affected area.

The Bucket stops by the president

Read the part you bolded again. I'll underline a very important word that it contains, to point it out for you:

The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing.

Which they did not sufficiently. Case closed.

No, the case is just beginning to open. Anyone remember early on here when I posted what the local administrations had done and said that I didn't know their party affiliation, but they had to be Democrats to be that inept? I wasn't exaggerating! That was pretty partisan then. Amazing how accurate it was!

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Also from the plan conjur linked:

Nothing in this plan alters or impedes the ability of
Federal, State, local, or tribal departments and agencies
to carry out their specific authorities or perform their
responsibilities under all applicable laws, Executive
orders, and directives. Additionally, nothing in this
plan is intended to impact or impede the ability of any
Federal department or agency head to take an issue of
concern directly to the President, the Assistant to the
President for Homeland Security, the Assistant to the
President for National Security Affairs, or any other
member of the President?s staff.

Also noted by K1052:

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: rahvin
I'll say it, the governer was incompetent and the president should have nationalized the effort on tuesday. Instead he waited until fvcking friday to care. In fact I've been saying that all along. Why didn't he put lives above politics and nationalize the LA guard and take over the rescue efforts by declaring marshal law in the area?

For the president to have overridden the local/state governments and sent in federal active duty soldiers to enforce law and order (or force evacuations by use of military force) he would have violated the Posse Comitatus Act.

His critics would now be trying to string him up with violation of an actual law instead of claiming his slow response was because he just didn't care.

Of course. The Bush critics are consistently setting up damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. They'll whine either way.

Yes, noted by K1052 and made moot by the wording I quoted above.

Once the President declared a Federal Disaster Area, the Feds became the primary responsibility for the relief effort. NRP should have been enacted to save lives as the local and state resources were overwhelmed.

You are fos.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/editorial/editorial_0569.xml

Emphasis on Local Response

All incidents are handled at the lowest possible organizational and jurisdictional level. Police, fire, public health and medical, emergency management, and other personnel are responsible for incident management at the local level. For those events that rise to the level of an Incident of National Significance, the Department of Homeland Security provides operational and/or resource coordination for Federal support to on-scene incident command structures.

Additionally, the plan you linked spells out Roles and Responsiblities very clearly (It's section III, in case you haven't actually read it and are C&Ping your stuff from KOS again). Federal response is in coordination with and is an adjunct to local and state response. It does not replace it.

If you care to read the NPR itself on Catastrophic Events you will find this.

Standard procedures regarding requests for assistance
may be expedited or, under extreme circumstances,
suspended in the immediate aftermath of an event of
catastrophic magnitude.
¦ Identified Federal response resources will deploy and
begin necessary operations as required to commence
life-safety activities.
¦ Notification and full coordination with States will occur,
but the coordination process must not delay or impede
the rapid deployment and use of critical resources.
States are urged to notify and coordinate with local
governments regarding a proactive Federal response.
¦ State and local governments are encouraged to
conduct collaborative planning with the Federal
Government as a part of ?steady-state? preparedness
for catastrophic incidents.


As noted above, requests by the local governments are not needed, and co-ordination while desireable is not a requirement during a catastrophe, and the Katrina aftermath qualifies as a catastrophe.

Edit: Looking through the posts, this is the same as Conjur posted. It comes directly from the Plan itself.

Argue with it.

Shhh...don't bother TLC with something that goes against his blame the low-man/Bush apologist agenda.

The Bush can do no wrong in that liberal's eyes.

LOL. I already smacked down your talking point C&P from KOS.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Also from the plan conjur linked:

Nothing in this plan alters or impedes the ability of
Federal, State, local, or tribal departments and agencies
to carry out their specific authorities or perform their
responsibilities under all applicable laws, Executive
orders, and directives. Additionally, nothing in this
plan is intended to impact or impede the ability of any
Federal department or agency head to take an issue of
concern directly to the President, the Assistant to the
President for Homeland Security, the Assistant to the
President for National Security Affairs, or any other
member of the President?s staff.

Also noted by K1052:

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: rahvin
I'll say it, the governer was incompetent and the president should have nationalized the effort on tuesday. Instead he waited until fvcking friday to care. In fact I've been saying that all along. Why didn't he put lives above politics and nationalize the LA guard and take over the rescue efforts by declaring marshal law in the area?

For the president to have overridden the local/state governments and sent in federal active duty soldiers to enforce law and order (or force evacuations by use of military force) he would have violated the Posse Comitatus Act.

His critics would now be trying to string him up with violation of an actual law instead of claiming his slow response was because he just didn't care.

Of course. The Bush critics are consistently setting up damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. They'll whine either way.

You mean GWB would rather let people die then be criticized? Especially since he knew he would be criticized either way??

What a pathetic excuse for a leader and as far as I'm concerened most of his supporters have the exact same faults.

 

[Genx87]

I wonder how much brain activity has been used to prove who is the biggest political hack by blaming the other side the most?

Plenty of blame to go around in this mess.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: Condor
Can you imagine whaqt you libs would be screaming if he had done thaqt? I think we are seeing the problem here.

And the only response the forum can generate to the accusation is to say that the president should put politics above lives. :thumbsup: Cause all you defenders hold raving lunatics like bbond up to such a level that you care what he thinks and not what middle america does.

I forget whether you generally lean left ort right, but I simply don't understand your post. This may be news to you, but I have responded sharply to several of BBonds attacks and believe in his right to post even then. I also believe in my right to respond. To say that I hold BBond up to anything is foolish. To insinuate that I care what he thinks is an insult! I just enjoy responding to him!

 

[imported_Pedro69]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Pedro69

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Pedro69
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
August 27, 2005

Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana

The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing.

The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under Title V of the Stafford Act, to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in the parishes of Allen, Avoyelles, Beauregard, Bienville, Bossier, Caddo, Caldwell, Claiborne, Catahoula, Concordia, De Soto, East Baton Rouge, East Carroll, East Feliciana, Evangeline, Franklin, Grant, Jackson, LaSalle, Lincoln, Livingston, Madison, Morehouse, Natchitoches, Pointe Coupee, Ouachita, Rapides, Red River, Richland, Sabine, St. Helena, St. Landry, Tensas, Union, Vernon, Webster, West Carroll, West Feliciana, and Winn.

Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Debris removal and emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance, will be provided at 75 percent Federal funding.

Representing FEMA, Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Department of Homeland Security, named William Lokey as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in the affected area.

The Bucket stops by the president

Read the part you bolded again. I'll underline a very important word that it contains, to point it out for you:

The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing.

Which they did not sufficiently. Case closed.

"The Bucket stops by the president"

Switching gears, eh? What closed is not the case, it's your mind. But that's clear to everyone already.

fyi as well, It's "Buck" not "Bucket."

Apologists--ready--go, go, go..

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Condor
Lets see now if I have this right. The libs are now blameing Bush because he didn't take command of the state from the Democratic, duly elected officials so that he could have declared martial law and save dhousands? Is that what I'm really reading?

So much for following the law.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: Condor
Lets see now if I have this right. The libs are now blameing Bush because he didn't take command of the state from the Democratic, duly elected officials so that he could have declared martial law and save dhousands? Is that what I'm really reading?

Some may make this argument. Mine would be that he has the authority and indeed duty to do so (this is applicable to any President you care to name). One of the questions in my mind is when would it have been proper moment to exercise this power given what he could have known at the beginning of the crisis.

I don't know the answer to that last point.

You do know that there is still that whole states rights issue that trumps most of these postings, don't you? That may have backfired this time, but it is there and enforced by the ststes for a purpose and mostly works for the people.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Also from the plan conjur linked:

Nothing in this plan alters or impedes the ability of
Federal, State, local, or tribal departments and agencies
to carry out their specific authorities or perform their
responsibilities under all applicable laws, Executive
orders, and directives. Additionally, nothing in this
plan is intended to impact or impede the ability of any
Federal department or agency head to take an issue of
concern directly to the President, the Assistant to the
President for Homeland Security, the Assistant to the
President for National Security Affairs, or any other
member of the President?s staff.

Also noted by K1052:

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: rahvin
I'll say it, the governer was incompetent and the president should have nationalized the effort on tuesday. Instead he waited until fvcking friday to care. In fact I've been saying that all along. Why didn't he put lives above politics and nationalize the LA guard and take over the rescue efforts by declaring marshal law in the area?

For the president to have overridden the local/state governments and sent in federal active duty soldiers to enforce law and order (or force evacuations by use of military force) he would have violated the Posse Comitatus Act.

His critics would now be trying to string him up with violation of an actual law instead of claiming his slow response was because he just didn't care.

Of course. The Bush critics are consistently setting up damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. They'll whine either way.

Yes, noted by K1052 and made moot by the wording I quoted above.

Once the President declared a Federal Disaster Area, the Feds became the primary responsibility for the relief effort. NRP should have been enacted to save lives as the local and state resources were overwhelmed.

You are fos.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/editorial/editorial_0569.xml

Emphasis on Local Response

All incidents are handled at the lowest possible organizational and jurisdictional level. Police, fire, public health and medical, emergency management, and other personnel are responsible for incident management at the local level. For those events that rise to the level of an Incident of National Significance, the Department of Homeland Security provides operational and/or resource coordination for Federal support to on-scene incident command structures.

Additionally, the plan you linked spells out Roles and Responsiblities very clearly (It's section III, in case you haven't actually read it and are C&Ping your stuff from KOS again). Federal response is in coordination with and is an adjunct to local and state response. It does not replace it.

If you care to read the NPR itself on Catastrophic Events you will find this.

Standard procedures regarding requests for assistance
may be expedited or, under extreme circumstances,
suspended in the immediate aftermath of an event of
catastrophic magnitude.
¦ Identified Federal response resources will deploy and
begin necessary operations as required to commence
life-safety activities.
¦ Notification and full coordination with States will occur,
but the coordination process must not delay or impede
the rapid deployment and use of critical resources.
States are urged to notify and coordinate with local
governments regarding a proactive Federal response.
¦ State and local governments are encouraged to
conduct collaborative planning with the Federal
Government as a part of ?steady-state? preparedness
for catastrophic incidents.


As noted above, requests by the local governments are not needed, and co-ordination while desireable is not a requirement during a catastrophe, and the Katrina aftermath qualifies as a catastrophe.

Edit: Looking through the posts, this is the same as Conjur posted. It comes directly from the Plan itself.

Argue with it.

Shhh...don't bother TLC with something that goes against his blame the low-man/Bush apologist agenda.

The Bush can do no wrong in that liberal's eyes.

LOL. I already smacked down your talking point C&P from KOS.

TLC, are you really a lib? I guess I respect at least one then.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Also from the plan conjur linked:

Nothing in this plan alters or impedes the ability of
Federal, State, local, or tribal departments and agencies
to carry out their specific authorities or perform their
responsibilities under all applicable laws, Executive
orders, and directives. Additionally, nothing in this
plan is intended to impact or impede the ability of any
Federal department or agency head to take an issue of
concern directly to the President, the Assistant to the
President for Homeland Security, the Assistant to the
President for National Security Affairs, or any other
member of the President?s staff.

Also noted by K1052:

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: rahvin
I'll say it, the governer was incompetent and the president should have nationalized the effort on tuesday. Instead he waited until fvcking friday to care. In fact I've been saying that all along. Why didn't he put lives above politics and nationalize the LA guard and take over the rescue efforts by declaring marshal law in the area?

For the president to have overridden the local/state governments and sent in federal active duty soldiers to enforce law and order (or force evacuations by use of military force) he would have violated the Posse Comitatus Act.

His critics would now be trying to string him up with violation of an actual law instead of claiming his slow response was because he just didn't care.

Of course. The Bush critics are consistently setting up damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. They'll whine either way.

You mean GWB would rather let people die then be criticized? Especially since he knew he would be criticized either way??

What a pathetic excuse for a leader and as far as I'm concerened most of his supporters have the exact same faults.

Can't be an issue. One point that we have made numerous times is that no matter what he does, he will get critism. Vicious critism! He is not running again and knows that he can't make Democrats happy, so it can't be very high in his priority stack.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I wonder how much brain activity has been used to prove who is the biggest political hack by blaming the other side the most?

Plenty of blame to go around in this mess.

I like to stay focused! The only way this will be better next time is with focus on real issues this time.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Condor
Lets see now if I have this right. The libs are now blameing Bush because he didn't take command of the state from the Democratic, duly elected officials so that he could have declared martial law and save dhousands? Is that what I'm really reading?

So much for following the law.

Yeah, the man can do no right.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
You mean GWB would rather let people die then be criticized? Especially since he knew he would be criticized either way??

What a pathetic excuse for a leader and as far as I'm concerened most of his supporters have the exact same faults.

And the Blame Gamers keep point the finger back to the DEM local leaders instead of looking at who was in control (regardless of party affiliation) and could have done something about it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Also from the plan conjur linked:

Nothing in this plan alters or impedes the ability of
Federal, State, local, or tribal departments and agencies
to carry out their specific authorities or perform their
responsibilities under all applicable laws, Executive
orders, and directives. Additionally, nothing in this
plan is intended to impact or impede the ability of any
Federal department or agency head to take an issue of
concern directly to the President, the Assistant to the
President for Homeland Security, the Assistant to the
President for National Security Affairs, or any other
member of the President?s staff.

Also noted by K1052:

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: rahvin
I'll say it, the governer was incompetent and the president should have nationalized the effort on tuesday. Instead he waited until fvcking friday to care. In fact I've been saying that all along. Why didn't he put lives above politics and nationalize the LA guard and take over the rescue efforts by declaring marshal law in the area?

For the president to have overridden the local/state governments and sent in federal active duty soldiers to enforce law and order (or force evacuations by use of military force) he would have violated the Posse Comitatus Act.

His critics would now be trying to string him up with violation of an actual law instead of claiming his slow response was because he just didn't care.

Of course. The Bush critics are consistently setting up damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. They'll whine either way.

Yes, noted by K1052 and made moot by the wording I quoted above.

Once the President declared a Federal Disaster Area, the Feds became the primary responsibility for the relief effort. NRP should have been enacted to save lives as the local and state resources were overwhelmed.

You are fos.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/editorial/editorial_0569.xml

Emphasis on Local Response

All incidents are handled at the lowest possible organizational and jurisdictional level. Police, fire, public health and medical, emergency management, and other personnel are responsible for incident management at the local level. For those events that rise to the level of an Incident of National Significance, the Department of Homeland Security provides operational and/or resource coordination for Federal support to on-scene incident command structures.

Additionally, the plan you linked spells out Roles and Responsiblities very clearly (It's section III, in case you haven't actually read it and are C&Ping your stuff from KOS again). Federal response is in coordination with and is an adjunct to local and state response. It does not replace it.

If you care to read the NPR itself on Catastrophic Events you will find this.

Standard procedures regarding requests for assistance
may be expedited or, under extreme circumstances,
suspended in the immediate aftermath of an event of
catastrophic magnitude.
¦ Identified Federal response resources will deploy and
begin necessary operations as required to commence
life-safety activities.
¦ Notification and full coordination with States will occur,
but the coordination process must not delay or impede
the rapid deployment and use of critical resources.
States are urged to notify and coordinate with local
governments regarding a proactive Federal response.
¦ State and local governments are encouraged to
conduct collaborative planning with the Federal
Government as a part of ?steady-state? preparedness
for catastrophic incidents.


As noted above, requests by the local governments are not needed, and co-ordination while desireable is not a requirement during a catastrophe, and the Katrina aftermath qualifies as a catastrophe.

Edit: Looking through the posts, this is the same as Conjur posted. It comes directly from the Plan itself.

Argue with it.

Shhh...don't bother TLC with something that goes against his blame the low-man/Bush apologist agenda.

The Bush can do no wrong in that liberal's eyes.

LOL. I already smacked down your talking point C&P from KOS.

I'll let you and Conjur duke it out, but the plan itself under catastrophic events clearly states what can be done in exceptional circumstances. Are you saying what I linked to is not genuine? Did I make up the part about states requesting aid as not being necessary?

Here is the Plan itself

Open it up in PDF, and look under "Proactive Federal Response to Catastrophic Events"

Clearly the intent is to work with state and local officials whenever possible, however it is NOT a necessary condition to act with the intent of saving lives in an extraordinary circumstance.

If you want to argue against Federal intervention, please don't make the claim that it hasn't the authority. Clearly it does.

Find another reason.