Mazdaspeed - turbo went out

[cr2250]

This sucks.

Car just hit 20,000 miles. I don't abuse it, completely stock.

I'm driving along the highway, starting notice reduction of power in 6th gear.

I press down on the gas, boost is struggling to build up. Suddenly I hear this awful grinding noise. White smoke coming out of the tail pipes.

Immediately pull off the next exit and call mazda for a tow.

They want every single oil change I've completed on the car. Trying to dig those up. My friend is telling me oil has nothing to do with the blown turbo because it's water cooled...any validity behind that statement?

I'm just hoping Mazda doesn't come back and deny the warranty if I can't get all the receipts.

Pictures that don't really do much:

 

[yottabit]

If you can't find the oil change receipts, as long as you can remember where you had your oil changed you can usually go back there and have them print out some kind of slip for you. I'm sure they'd still have it in their records

If you changed it yourself I'm not sure what to do there

I don't think your friend is correct... oil changes are important on any car, especially a turbocharged car. Water cooled turbos are certainly less sensitive to it than old oil cooled turbos. But the oil is still used to lubricate all the bearings even on a water cooled turbo so still very important.

 

[NutBucket]

Turbo is water cooled but oil lubricated. I don't know how one would prove oil changes done yourself either. I just write mine down and/or record them on a website. Subaru for example has a owners' website where you can record service yourself and it will show up with whatever service is done at a dealer.

 

[cr2250]

Any reason why the turbo would go out so early?

Is it normal for the a grinding noise to come with the white smoke?

 

[KentState]

Probably a failed bearing in the turbo. Might be trying to blame that on a lack of oil changes, though the cost isn't astronomical to replace it so they probably won't fight you too hard.

 

[cr2250]

Nah I was on top of oil changes. Dealer had me on the 7500 mile schedule in Cali then when I moved back to Ohio I went to 5k interval fully synthetic.

 

[Danimal1209]

I have a ms3 as well and the mazdaspeed forums have multiple posts with people blowing turbos extremely early. I would say that it is not uncommon.

 

[phucheneh]

Probably a lot of people not treating turbos properly. It's not just oil changes.

Basically, people usually fall into one of the following categories:
1) 'Enthusiast.' May drive the car hard, but it's his baby and not only does it get frequent oil changes with quality oil, he also treats the turbo right. Let's the car warm up and, most importantly, gives a hot turbo time to cool at idle. Yes, this applies with both water-cooled (typically ball bearing) turbos and oil-cooled sleeve bearing turbos. Yeah, it
s the most important with the latter, but hard shutdowns will kill either.
2) 'Grandma.' Owns something like a turbo Volvo. May go a little extra on oil changes, and never lets the car idle before shutdown. But she drives so damn slow that the turbo never gets up to optimal temp, and never hits the relatively insane temperatures that a turbo does on a car that's being driven hard.
3) 'Insert your own term here.' They drive the car hard. They are not mindful of the turbo's need for a controlled cooldown with the engine oil pressure maintained (i.e. idling). Their turbos die.

I'd reckon we don't have a lot of number three on here. OP may have just had a turbo go bad from lack of...luck. Stuff happens. But you'll see complaints about the turbos in any car that is likely to have someone drive it hard (i.e. not a Volvo station wagon). They're actually usually pretty long-lived devices if you treat them well.

Oh, and OP, there should be no issues with your warranty. If you can provide oil change records, there should be not fight. As long as the tech doesn't tear it down and throw a red flag for sludge...even then, if you can prove you've met the manufacturer's recs for oil changes, they should know they have no grounds to fight you on it (the dealer, that is) because they know the manufacturer will cover it (and they'll cover it because if you did the maintenance, you're can defeat them in court).

 

[cr2250]

Probably a lot of people not treating turbos properly. It's not just oil changes.

Basically, people usually fall into one of the following categories:
1) 'Enthusiast.' May drive the car hard, but it's his baby and not only does it get frequent oil changes with quality oil, he also treats the turbo right. Let's the car warm up and, most importantly, gives a hot turbo time to cool at idle. Yes, this applies with both water-cooled (typically ball bearing) turbos and oil-cooled sleeve bearing turbos. Yeah, it
s the most important with the latter, but hard shutdowns will kill either.
2) 'Grandma.' Owns something like a turbo Volvo. May go a little extra on oil changes, and never lets the car idle before shutdown. But she drives so damn slow that the turbo never gets up to optimal temp, and never hits the relatively insane temperatures that a turbo does on a car that's being driven hard.
3) 'Insert your own term here.' They drive the car hard. They are not mindful of the turbo's need for a controlled cooldown with the engine oil pressure maintained (i.e. idling). Their turbos die.

I'd reckon we don't have a lot of number three on here. OP may have just had a turbo go bad from lack of...luck. Stuff happens. But you'll see complaints about the turbos in any car that is likely to have someone drive it hard (i.e. not a Volvo station wagon). They're actually usually pretty long-lived devices if you treat them well.

I'd be a mix between 1 and 2. I don't let the turbo cool down (actually I think it was really hot one day out and the fan was still running after I had taken the key out).

I let the car warm up at least 30 seconds then keep it easy on the throttle till the cold temp light goes out - even then I wait a couple minutes of driving before I ever got WOT.

I should probably start letting the car cool down.

and regarding the oil changes.

Got one around 7500 miles (operating in california weather, which was compliant with Mazda)

Got a second one at Mazda under my maintenance service contract. 12,500 miles

I found out later that they had used conventional oil. Immediately canceled the contract and went to Firestone to get synthetic in. 15,950

Then turbo blows around 19,800

Found receipts for all. Only problem is being without a car.

 

[shabby]

I went to 5k interval fully synthetic.

So originally the car was running regular oil? If i was a bean counter investigating warranty claims i'd throw a red flag right here, synthetic oil blew the turbo i'd scream.
However since it seems like this is somewhat common its most likely a manufacturing defect and they should replace it, hopefully.

 

[cr2250]

So originally the car was running regular oil? If i was a bean counter investigating warranty claims i'd throw a red flag right here, synthetic oil blew the turbo i'd scream.
However since it seems like this is somewhat common its most likely a manufacturing defect and they should replace it, hopefully.

Some reason Mazda is okay with conventional oil for the speed3's. I read up a lot on this topic (speed forums, etc)... and it's generally accepted that synthetic oil for the speed does not harm the engine.

I've also asked on this board before about the synthetic vs conventional and most agreed that synthetic would be the proper choice.

 

[LTC8K6]

Yes, the mfg spec is for conventional oil. 5W-30.

Also remember that the OCI has a time element as well. 6 months, typically.

 

[disappoint]

I'd reckon we don't have a lot of number three on here. OP may have just had a turbo go bad from lack of...luck.

Luck? What luck? Are you one of those folks that think if he has a lucky rabbits foot, four leaf clovers, people praying for him and really really believes it he will win the lottery? HA! There is no such thing as luck.

OP may have just had a turbo go bad from lack of...quality. His MazdaPeed Obviously has a lack of quality GM parts which is why the MazdaPeed forums are full of such complaints while the GM boards are not. Hmmm wonder why that might be? Just a coincidence...just luck. Keep beliebing that.

 

[cr2250]

Luck? What luck? Are you one of those folks that think if he has a lucky rabbits foot, four leaf clovers, people praying for him and really really beleives it he will win the lottery? HA! There is no such thing as luck.

OP may have just had a turbo go bad from lack of...quality. His MazdaPeed Obviously has a lack of quality GM parts which is why the MazdaPeed forums are full of such complaints while the GM boards are not. Hmmm wonder why that might be? Just a coincidence...just luck. Keep beleibing that.

Ehhh what?

Guess this is a troll post but just recently GM has picked up in quality. Especially GM. Go scour the cobalt/ss forums vs the Mazda3/speed and tell me which one has more complaints.
The cobalt is still haunting their owners today. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles...0001424052702303873604579493263271543676.html

 

[disappoint]

Ehhh what?

Guess this is a troll post but just recently GM has picked up in quality. Especially GM. Go scour the cobalt/ss forums vs the Mazda3/speed and tell me which one has more complaints.
The cobalt is still haunting their owners today. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles...0001424052702303873604579493263271543676.html

Old platform vs. new lol. Was it the lucky rabbit's foot that made you think no one would notice?

 

[thedarkwolf]

To kill a turbo in 20k miles it probably had some defect from the factory. Even if you treat it like crap it shouldn't go at 20k miles.

 

[Wuzup101]

To kill a turbo in 20k miles it probably had some defect from the factory. Even if you treat it like crap it shouldn't go at 20k miles.

Agreed. 20k is too soon unless it was seriously abused. Modern turbos last much longer than 20k...

Note that I'm not saying the OP abused it... just agreeing that there was probably something wrong with it from the start.

 

[cr2250]

Old platform vs. new lol. Was it the lucky rabbit's foot that made you think no one would notice?

2.3 DISI isn't any different in either 1st or 2nd gen.

 

[toronado97]

Luck? What luck? Are you one of those folks that think if he has a lucky rabbits foot, four leaf clovers, people praying for him and really really beleives it he will win the lottery? HA! There is no such thing as luck.

OP may have just had a turbo go bad from lack of...quality. His MazdaPeed Obviously has a lack of quality GM parts which is why the MazdaPeed forums are full of such complaints while the GM boards are not. Hmmm wonder why that might be? Just a coincidence...just luck. Keep beleibing that.

Are we really going to attempt to argue the merits of GM built vehicles quality wise? You're barking up the wrong tree there.

 

[amdhunter]

Tell them to pound sand regarding your oil change schedule. Just tell them you checked it occasionally and topped off/changed the oil when needed.

If they try to blame oil changes or abuse, get it in writing and tell them you'll ask a lawyer for an opinion for engine advice.

 

[JCH13]

Bummer OP :\

Sounds a lot like a defect, you'd have to screw up REALLY bad to cook a turbo in 20k due to abuse. I doubt that you did.

The MS3 has a cool down mode of some sort. I think, but haven't confirmed, that the cooling system will continue to circulate after the car is shut down in order to more gently cool off the engine and turbo. I know I can hear the cooling fans, and what sounds like a small electric pump, running after I shut my MS3 off. If one is REALLY worried about cooling off the turbo, get a turbo timer for $100.

Push back against the dealer/Mazda Corporate. My understanding is that the burden of proof is on them to prove that something you did caused the failure. I know of people who've had heavily modified engines replaced under warranty. Don't roll over, make them cover the replacement/repair cost.

If, however, you REALLY can't make them cover it, I'll leave this here.

 

[exar333]

If anything, the stock turbo/boost configuration on a MS3 is actually pretty mild. The engine/turbo/trans all can pretty easily handle a good more output, so the turbo failing at 20k miles really points to a defect IMHO. As others stated, unless the OP was clutch-dumping 1/4 miles over and over again (which I don't think he/she did) it's very unlikely to have it fail so soon. This is especially true as it appears the standard maintenance was followed and the car wasn't starved for oil or anything.

Hopefully Mazda/dealership make good and get the car back operational ASAP. On the plus side, you now have a new turbo at 20k and can reasonably expect it to last for a good while longer.

 

[SearchMaster]

My understanding is that the burden of proof is on them to prove that something you did caused the failure.

My understanding is that this is true in theory under Magnuson–Moss, but if they deny initially you might have to pursue legal action (or at least threaten it). The best course of action is to be polite but firm, and if they try to throw that BS at you, don't bend over and take it. It sounds like you did your part, and unless the manual specifically says NOT to use synthetic you should be fine.

I suspect that Mazda will be footing the bill for this one as they should, especially if there is a history of this component failing. Push for a rental as well, especially if the investigation/parts ordering is going to be a few days.

 

[imagoon]

Provide them the oil change history. *Every* manufacturer will ask this. I do all the changes on my my Harley, I just write the mileage on print out of the oil filter / oil receipt. Harley is fine with that when I need service. The reason they ask is because on the other end of the spectrum you get:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/foru...373-Engine-Oil-never-changed-for-60-000-miles

It is these people that "wonder what went wrong." They want to verify that you are not a complete idiot and still running on the original factory oil at 20k miles. I mean you can go and tell them to "pound sand" like some others here have suggested. However I hope you have more money than it would cost to replace the turbo yourself to pay a lawyer. And during that entire time you don't have a car. If you play ball and they warranty it, they likely will give you a loaner and everyone is happy.

 

[cr2250]

My understanding is that this is true in theory under Magnuson–Moss, but if they deny initially you might have to pursue legal action (or at least threaten it). The best course of action is to be polite but firm, and if they try to throw that BS at you, don't bend over and take it. It sounds like you did your part, and unless the manual specifically says NOT to use synthetic you should be fine.

I suspect that Mazda will be footing the bill for this one as they should, especially if there is a history of this component failing. Push for a rental as well, especially if the investigation/parts ordering is going to be a few days.

They said no on the rental. More concerned on whether they will cover the car under warranty.

Never been hard on the clutch, or even tried 1/4 mile run. It's my DD.

Found all the oil change records, dropped them off. They'll see its all synthetic oil except when they did my oil change.