MBA

[josh0099]

Really depends on what you want to do in the future I believe....Masters in Engineering in the Utility isn't going to get you a whole lot...Nor do I believe its worth going to a big name MBA school for 75k over a cheaper option from around 25-35k if you plan to stay in the utility. I vote for cheapish MBA that will most likely make you a shoe in for leadership type positions within your current company like director of a department and maybe eventually like a plant manager type position. That is if you plan on staying within the same company. If not you need to really decide what you want to do, a masters in engineering will most likely get you into research and development with a manufacture which with your background at a plant that would be a good deal. It could also land you a consult position within a independent firm, otherwise you are maybe looking at a promotion at your current job at best in my opinion. Anyway that my thoughts, my experience is a power delivery position within a utility and my father works in a generation plant for a different utility.

 

[Cattlegod]

Do you work at DTE?

Anyway, I was working in the auto industry when I started going Ross at 25. Graduated 2 years ago at 28 and would do it 1000 times over. 70% salary increase on an already good salary, industry switch to cpg, and much better worklife balance. Im typing on a tablet so pm me if you want to discuss more.

Key point for me was I had 50% of that 90k paid for with no commitment so the decision was a no brainer for me, but I do have some points you should know having been there and done that.

 

[rcpratt]

Do you work at DTE?

Anyway, I was working in the auto industry when I started going Ross at 25. Graduated 2 years ago at 28 and would do it 1000 times over. 70% salary increase on an already good salary, industry switch to cpg, and much better worklife balance. Im typing on a tablet so pm me if you want to discuss more.

Key point for me was I had 50% of that 90k paid for with no commitment so the decision was a no brainer for me, but I do have some points you should know having been there and done that.

That would probably be a good guess

Did you do nights or weekends at Ross? 50% would probably be a no-brainer for me as well. I'd love to hear your "points," via PM is fine if necessary.

 

[Spikesoldier]

TLDR questions:
-Is it appropriate to ask my director if the company has any additional tuition assistance programs beyond the standard $7.5k/yr?
-Is an MBA even worth it?
-M.S. Engineering vs. MBA?
-What's the value of going to a top school? There are other options in the area (MSU, Wayne State...and crappier stuff but I don't think I'd want to go much worse), but they don't come close to touching a UofM MBA.

1. absolutely. the tuition assistance is likely coming out of the director's budget anyway. if you can convince him that it would be a good investment, he might make an exception.

2. Yes. but i wouldnt get it unless someone ELSE was paying for it. not enough ROI.

3. M.S. Eng IMO > MBA

4. Top school grads simply have easier experiences as far as recruitment goes. Everything that happens after the hire is up to you.

 

[Svnla]

What was your undergrad and what kind of business were you in?

Bums me out when I hear about companies that paid for the whole degree...I feel like a lot of people have that deal. Which is kind of why I wanted to see if they have any other programs. The business is kind of diverse and you see a lot of people taking classes at community colleges or whatnot with the $7.5k.

My BS was Management with minor in Computer Science, kinda like MIS.

The company was one of the largest manufacturer in the world (Fortune 100). I left a few years ago and from what I hear lately, they are no longer having such generous benefits (no more 100% free health care, no more 100% free education, no more 401k matching, etc.).

Like I said, my MBA was beneficial to me, but I would not pay 75K for it all by myself.

Don't forget about the time you will have to invest for your classes AFTER a long day at work. I used to hate it when all of my co workers went out and had a drink while I had to go to class for hours after work, and I had to do that for a few years (only able to take 1 class at a time due to work schedule).

 

[Dr. Zaus]

MS vs MBA is a matter of career path not one being greater than the other.

this is what you want to look at:
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-business-schools/sitemap


so yea, ross charges 90k and you get a job at 90k after.
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings...s/university-of-michigan-ann-arbor-ross-01121

compare to auburn:
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings.../top-business-schools/auburn-university-01001

40k/y quickly makes up for the 60k extra you would spend.

For 14K i would not sell 4 years of my life to my employer. You never know how much coming out of a top school with an MBA and a technical background could net you: not worth being locked down at 14k in my opinion.

also keep in mind that what Ross is selling you isn't a superior education, it's selling you a superior network of alumni:
"The ROI of a Ross MBA includes a business school network of more than 40,000 alumni and a University of Michigan network of more than 500,000."

 

[josh0099]

MS vs MBA is a matter of career path not one being greater than the other.



so yea, ross charges 90k and you get a job at 90k after.
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings...s/university-of-michigan-ann-arbor-ross-01121


also keep in mind that what Ross is selling you isn't a superior education, it's selling you a superior network of alumni:
"The ROI of a Ross MBA includes a business school network of more than 40,000 alumni and a University of Michigan network of more than 500,000."

Yep, but he probably is making 70-80k already, so is an 75k investment worth it, when a cheaper MBA will probably get him into a position at his current company making 90+k after graduation as well...Not saying the alumni network might not be worth it, but hard to justify that type of money.

 

[rcpratt]

Yep, but he probably is making 70-80k already, so is an 75k investment worth it, when a cheaper MBA will probably get him into a position at his current company making 90+k after graduation as well...Not saying the alumni network might not be worth it, but hard to justify that type of money.

That's probably pretty close to what the situation would be at my current company.

The plus side, I suppose, is that with my company only paying $15k, I'll be more open to taking another job and paying back the $15k if there are opportunities that are much better than my current company.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

I think the mindset of being with one company limits future potential. You want to invest as heavily in yourself as possible not because of what it can do for you in your current situation, but because of what it can do for you in the long-run.

Also, online school sucks.

 

[josh0099]

I think the mindset of being with one company limits future potential. You want to invest as heavily in yourself as possible not because of what it can do for you in your current situation, but because of what it can do for you in the long-run.

Also, online school sucks.

The op really hasn't said he cared about staying at one company, my point is why spend 75-90k to maybe move to a different company for a job that he may only be making 10-20k more as he is right now. Also there would be a pretty good chance after he got a MBA at a cheaper place not necessarily on-line he could make 90k+ at his current company and have the MBA halfway paid for or more.

Not saying going to UofM would be a total waste, but I see it as a very very tough sale when he could easily make the same amount of money starting out with a cheaper MBA option without either going into debt heavily or investing a lot of money with not a guaranteed rate of return.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

The op really hasn't said he cared about staying at one company, my point is why spend 75-90k to maybe move to a different company for a job that he may only be making 10-20k more as he is right now.

It's a crap shoot; and highly dependent uppon intended career path.

If he just wants to sit as the middle guy between the techs and the suits it doesn't matter. If he wants to move up in a managerial career path (say COO at a F500 company some day) then there are an almost unlimited number of factors in play, but he should try to have the strongest positive influence on the ones he does control (such as brand-naming his education).

http://images.businessweek.com/slideshows/20101108/the-best-u-s-business-schools-2010/slides/8

I'm a "go big or go home" kind of person; but he may be a "go along to get along" kind and not care much for such advancement.

 

[rcpratt]

If he just wants to sit as the middle guy between the techs and the suits it doesn't matter. If he wants to move up in a managerial career path (say COO at a F500 company some day) then there are an almost unlimited number of factors in play, but he should try to have the strongest positive influence on the ones he does control (such as brand-naming his education).

http://images.businessweek.com/slideshows/20101108/the-best-u-s-business-schools-2010/slides/8

I'm a "go big or go home" kind of person; but he may be a "go along to get along" kind and not care much for such advancement.

Might as well shoot high...

I kind of have the same "go big or go home" attitude, which is why this is hard for me.

 

[silverpig]

Might as well shoot high...

I kind of have the same "go big or go home" attitude, which is why this is hard for me.

Here's the thing, if you're talented, you'll end up at the top of your class and will get a top job making $100k+. The top students (not necessarily the ones with the best grades) do get those jobs, and from what I understand, they are usually people with technical degrees.

I would try to encourage you to have an idea for what you want to do with the MBA afterwards, then pick a school that does well in that field. It may be moot as you'll likely change your mind once you start class, but at least you'll have a plan.

Spend a bit of time with a GMAT book (Princeton Review is a good one that I recommend), write the GMAT, then apply to 4 schools. Make one of them Ross, and then depending on your GMAT score, apply to a "pie in the sky" school, a "career path" school, and a "safe" school in addition to Ross.

It's hard to really give advice without some more data though.

 

[rcpratt]

Semi-brag update:

Just got back from the GMAT, 750. That's well above Ross' average (704), but I'm considering taking it again anyways. Ross says 80% of enrollees are between 650 and 750, and I want to get out of that range. I figure I could gain a few points considering my studying consisted of two hours in Panera beforehand. I do need it to be exceptional, because my undergraduate grades are going to stand out (2.8, although Nuclear Engineering at Purdue...). Any thoughts from anyone that has applied or attended Ross on how comfortable you'd feel with those? I will have, I think, above-average recommendations...including a senior manager who is a Ross graduate and on their board.

Still no luck with the money aspect. Over the two-year program, which spans three calendar years, I would receive $22,500 in reimbursement from my company...which leaves about $75,000 to myself. Not even sure if I can stomach that much at this point in my life and with my current financial situation. Still haven't decided whether to start May 2013 or 2014. I'd love to do 2013 if the cash was there. I haven't had any luck with any scholarships or anything for business school, although the stupid thing at the end of the GMAT said they existed.

 

[Imp]

I do not understand paying $80k for a "general" degree (to those who don't understand rhetorical questions and that expression, it doesn't mean I don't understand). My city alone has 4 universities with class sizes of 50+.

But it's your money (loan) and your life, so more power to you.

 

[SandEagle]

Semi-brag update:

Just got back from the GMAT, 750. That's well above Ross' average (704), but I'm considering taking it again anyways. Ross says 80% of enrollees are between 650 and 750, and I want to get out of that range. I figure I could gain a few points considering my studying consisted of two hours in Panera beforehand. I do need it to be exceptional, because my undergraduate grades are going to stand out (2.8, although Nuclear Engineering at Purdue...). Any thoughts from anyone that has applied or attended Ross on how comfortable you'd feel with those? I will have, I think, above-average recommendations...including a senior manager who is a Ross graduate and on their board.

Still no luck with the money aspect. Over the two-year program, which spans three calendar years, I would receive $22,500 in reimbursement from my company...which leaves about $75,000 to myself. Not even sure if I can stomach that much at this point in my life and with my current financial situation. Still haven't decided whether to start May 2013 or 2014. I'd love to do 2013 if the cash was there. I haven't had any luck with any scholarships or anything for business school, although the stupid thing at the end of the GMAT said they existed.

on the day of my GMAT I was extremely sick, but decided to still take it and not reschedule. ended up not finishing the test and got like a 400 (LOL). Still got accepted to a state uni and got my MBA....paid about 10K total for it. this was over 10 years ago.

 

[rcpratt]

on the day of my GMAT I was extremely sick, but decided to still take it and not reschedule. ended up not finishing the test and got like a 400 (LOL). Still got accepted to a state uni and got my MBA....paid about 10K total for it. this was over 10 years ago.

Thank you for that completely irrelevant response and short personal anecdote.

 

[SandEagle]

Thank you for that completely irrelevant response and short personal anecdote.

the point is, why pay 90K for an MBA when a 10K would work just as well? i never really put to much effort into school and breezed through life. i have no money though, if that means anything.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Only get a $90K MBA if your employer is paying the $90K. The MBA market is oversaturated right now and it is a risky proposition. It is one of those things where getting one won't necessarily help you immediately, but it might one day. You just can't be sure.

That's the debate I've been having with myself the past couple of years. I've applied for some positions and while an MBA would've helped, I still wouldn't have gotten the positions because I didn't have the necessary experience. My friend who has a very good MBA also applied for the last position I applied for and it didn't help him at all. All told, I've had 4 friends get MBAs over the past 8 or 9 years and none of them have advanced.

I could literally walk across the street from my workplace and get a top 20 MBA but it would be something like $60K and my current workplace only reimburses at the IRS limit, which is $5250 per year IIRC. Still strongly considering WGU, because most don't seem to care where the MBA is from as long as you have it and at their tuition rates, I could effectively get it free.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

ICF: keep in mind that the networking that you gain is highly valuable.

 

[Fenixgoon]

rule #1 - never pay for an advanced degree.

there are plenty of people/organizations that will pay for your degree at their expense. ESPECIALLY in engineering.

 

[Imp]

Without going into too much detail...my director has indicated a desire to get me started on the company's pre-management program (forget what it's called exactly), intended for manager and director candidates within 5 years. I don't meet the requirements (time in job) to actually start it yet, but this is obviously an important piece of that when the time comes. So...is it appropriate to ask him if the company has any other programs for MBA assistance, etc.? I'd like to do the best for myself, but a $75k price tag obviously has me reconsidering cheaper options.

Just an FYI, my old manager indicated a desire to get me started in my training to be a project manager, so I could be a structural engineer in his office. This actually happened last Fall. It was supposedly contingent on me getting a professional engineering license (I'm less than 2 years off). Ya, I'm still working the same job, and now don't ever see myself working at that office because the head manager (not the manager I mentioned) is an absolute wise and beautiful woman. Oh, and the work is dull/dry and dangerous as fuck (walking along the shoulder of highway interchanges 100' in the air with back to traffic, 80 mph limit).

Also, I now realize that I hate my field. I just can't think of what else I'd like to do, so may as well stick around, get paid while I think or stick with it as a job. I figured all of this out over the past few months - an "epiphany". I'm mid-20s.

Long story short, OP was 23 and is now 24. A lot of shit happens in your mid-20s. Are you sure doing an $80k degree with much cheaper alternatives available is the best course? Also, director/management is so politics-laden that ass-kissing might be easier and cheaper.

 

[silverpig]

Semi-brag update:

Just got back from the GMAT, 750. That's well above Ross' average (704), but I'm considering taking it again anyways. Ross says 80% of enrollees are between 650 and 750, and I want to get out of that range. I figure I could gain a few points considering my studying consisted of two hours in Panera beforehand. I do need it to be exceptional, because my undergraduate grades are going to stand out (2.8, although Nuclear Engineering at Purdue...). Any thoughts from anyone that has applied or attended Ross on how comfortable you'd feel with those? I will have, I think, above-average recommendations...including a senior manager who is a Ross graduate and on their board.

Still no luck with the money aspect. Over the two-year program, which spans three calendar years, I would receive $22,500 in reimbursement from my company...which leaves about $75,000 to myself. Not even sure if I can stomach that much at this point in my life and with my current financial situation. Still haven't decided whether to start May 2013 or 2014. I'd love to do 2013 if the cash was there. I haven't had any luck with any scholarships or anything for business school, although the stupid thing at the end of the GMAT said they existed.

At some point a higher GMAT doesn't really help. 750 is well into that territory.

 

[Andrew111]

At some point a higher GMAT doesn't really help. 750 is well into that territory.

Exactly. If anything, the admissions committee may consider it a negative that you wasted time and money taking it again and may start to question your overall decision making process. It also may tell them that you know other parts of your application are weaker and you're trying to compensate with a stellar GMAT score. But like I said in this post before, engineers with high GMAT scores are a dime a dozen...I hope you accumulated some decent management/leadership experience.