MBA

[rcpratt]

I'm extremely early in this process, so this is probably going to sound disorganized and scattered.

I'm 23 with a degree in nuclear engineering. I have a good job in the utility industry. I've always planned on going back and getting a master's in something, probably engineering or an MBA. I've always kind of leaned towards the MBA, for whatever reason. Recent events at work have quickly accelerated my desire to do this, so I'm looking towards starting summer/fall '12 at this point.

So I'm fortunate enough to live 25 minutes away from one of the best business schools in the country (UofM, although I'll have to get over my irrational hatred for all things maize and blue). I'd have no problems doing part-time either in the evening or on weekends, although I'm leaning towards weekend. Two weekends a month, 5-9 Friday and 9-5 Saturday, for two years...not bad at all.

The bad part comes when they tell you the price tag: about $90k for two years. Holy mofo. Now, I have no student loans and I make a pretty good salary, but still. The even worse part is my employer's tuition assistance policy. They offer up to $7,500/yr, requiring you to stay with the company for at least two years after graduation, of course. So that puts an embarrassingly small dent in it.

Without going into too much detail...my director has indicated a desire to get me started on the company's pre-management program (forget what it's called exactly), intended for manager and director candidates within 5 years. I don't meet the requirements (time in job) to actually start it yet, but this is obviously an important piece of that when the time comes. So...is it appropriate to ask him if the company has any other programs for MBA assistance, etc.? I'd like to do the best for myself, but a $75k price tag obviously has me reconsidering cheaper options.

I do greatly enjoy my job and think I have a great future at my company, but an MBA would obviously also many other doors that I wouldn't be opposed to exploring, either.

TLDR questions:
-Is it appropriate to ask my director if the company has any additional tuition assistance programs beyond the standard $7.5k/yr?
-Is an MBA even worth it?
-M.S. Engineering vs. MBA?
-What's the value of going to a top school? There are other options in the area (MSU, Wayne State...and crappier stuff but I don't think I'd want to go much worse), but they don't come close to touching a UofM MBA.

Also, no I haven't even taken the GMAT or anything yet. Just starting on this. But if there's one thing I'm good at in life, it's standardized tests, and I feel somewhat confident that I could get in to Ross.


(9/19/12) Semi-brag update:

Just got back from the GMAT, 750. That's well above Ross' average (704), but I'm considering taking it again anyways. Ross says 80% of enrollees are between 650 and 750, and I want to get out of that range. I figure I could gain a few points considering my studying consisted of two hours in Panera beforehand. I do need it to be exceptional, because my undergraduate grades are going to stand out (2.8, although Nuclear Engineering at Purdue...). Any thoughts from anyone that has applied or attended Ross on how comfortable you'd feel with those? I will have, I think, above-average recommendations...including a senior manager who is a Ross graduate and on their board.

Still no luck with the money aspect. Over the two-year program, which spans three calendar years, I would receive $22,500 in reimbursement from my company...which leaves about $80,000 to myself. Not even sure if I can stomach that much at this point in my life and with my current financial situation. Still haven't decided whether to start May 2013 or 2014. I'd love to do 2013 if the cash was there. I haven't had any luck with any scholarships or anything for business school, although the stupid thing at the end of the GMAT said they existed.

 

[calvinbiss]

I am in a similar position. Mechanical engineer working for a utility company with desires of a post-bachelors degree. When decided between MS Engineering and MBA, you have decide what you want to do with your career. If you go the MBA, you will likely end up managing people or a business process, and doing less engineering. If you go MS, you will likely end up doing engineering work; possibly design if your utility has a design group, or managing an engineer process.

I don't think that you can ask for more money from the company just because you want to go to a more expensive program.

 

[SP33Demon]

Screw that sht man, 75K. You can do an online MBA for way way cheaper and from decent schools nowadays. For example, Auburn: http://business.auburn.edu/mba/program-options/distance-learning-off-campus/index.cfm

Is it going to have the brand recognition as UM? No, but nobody is going to give a sht unless you're a lawyer. Think of what 75K would be in 20 years at 10% return... are you going to be able to top that in earnings (in the form of raises) in 20 years? Most likely not.

 

[Viper Frag]

I didn't pursue an MBA; however, I still managed to get a Director role leading the operations for 3 countries for a multinational organization. I did go through a bit of an unconventional route though:

1. Undergrad EE
2. Army Officer
3. Director

And I'm still under 30

An MBA is a good foundation for Financial tools; however, employers look beyond that. Can you present well? Can you defend your stance on proposals? How good is your pitch to an executive board? Are you analytical with your views and not just talk out of your ass? You can gain all these qualities without an MBA. I can analyze a P&L sheet, forecast budgets & Sales, and go through acquisition excercises. Just think before you jump into a program and have to pay back $100k. If the company pays for it then do it.

Interesting Link: http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/04/news/companies/military_business_leaders.fortune/

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Screw that sht man, 75K. You can do an online MBA for way way cheaper and from decent schools nowadays. For example, Auburn: http://business.auburn.edu/mba/program-options/distance-learning-off-campus/index.cfm

Is it going to have the brand recognition as UM? No, but nobody is going to give a sht unless you're a lawyer. Think of what 75K would be in 20 years at 10% return... are you going to be able to top that in earnings (in the form of raises) in 20 years? Most likely not.

this

 

[rcpratt]

Screw that sht man, 75K. You can do an online MBA for way way cheaper and from decent schools nowadays. For example, Auburn: http://business.auburn.edu/mba/program-options/distance-learning-off-campus/index.cfm

Is it going to have the brand recognition as UM? No, but nobody is going to give a sht unless you're a lawyer. Think of what 75K would be in 20 years at 10% return... are you going to be able to top that in earnings (in the form of raises) in 20 years? Most likely not.

I don't know, I guess I didn't really consider it. I feel like I might rather go to a cheaper local option though.

I mean, if the case is that nobody gives a shit if you have a top MBA, then I won't make the investment in a top school. I guess that's part of the question.

I didn't pursue an MBA; however, I still managed to get a Director role leading the operations for 3 countries for a multinational organization. I did go through a bit of an unconventional route though:

1. Undergrad EE
2. Army Officer
3. Director

And I'm still under 30

An MBA is a good foundation for Financial tools; however, employers look beyond that. Can you present well? Can you defend your stance on proposals? How good is your pitch to an executive board? Are you analytical with your views and not just talk out of your ass? You can gain all these qualities without an MBA. I can analyze a P&L sheet, forecast budgets & Sales, and go through acquisition excercises. Just think before you jump into a program and have to pay back $100k. If the company pays for it then do it.

Interesting Link: http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/04/news/companies/military_business_leaders.fortune/

That is an interesting route, although one that I don't have much interest in.

As for the other tools, that's very true and is something else that recently have me pursuing. It's also probably one of my weaknesses. I'm preparing for a technical presentation (really more of an interrogation) next month which is along those lines. As for the more financial tools, I don't have those because it's just not a part of my job, not to say that I wouldn't feel comfortable picking up those skills on-the-job when necessary.

 

[SP33Demon]

I don't know, I guess I didn't really consider it. I feel like I might rather go to a cheaper local option though.

I mean, if the case is that nobody gives a shit if you have a top MBA, then I won't make the investment in a top school. I guess that's part of the question.


That is an interesting route, although one that I don't have much interest in.

As for the other tools, that's very true and is something else that recently have me pursuing. It's also probably one of my weaknesses. I'm preparing for a technical presentation (really more of an interrogation) next month which is along those lines. As for the more financial tools, I don't have those because it's just not a part of my job, not to say that I wouldn't feel comfortable picking up those skills on-the-job when necessary.

If you're on Wall Street, then it would probably be a big boost for you to go to Michigan which is view on par with Ivy League business schools (e.g. Wharton@UPenn, Harvard). However, since you aren't in the financial sector, it probably won't make a big difference. If your main skill is engineering, then an MBA will help guide you in managing others in your field. Your field will probably reward a technical master's more, but I don't know the pay rates for what you do.

I was in the same boat and opted for a master's that gave me more skills in my technical scientific field. Company is paying for all of it (not the best but very respectable school in the area). I figure if god forbid I'm ever laid off, a technical master's would really differentiate me from n00bs fresh out of college who will work for cheaper. An MBA, I'd like to get one eventually if my cushy deal (work paying for school up to $7500 a year like you). Granted, I'm only taking 4 classes a year so it'll take me longer than you but you really cannot beat free.

All in all, it's up to you. Do you want to brag to your kids that you have a prestigious MBA or do you want to have 500,000 more dollars when you retire? I'd want the money but maybe the 75K is chump change for you.

 

[polarmystery]

I'd go the engineering route just because I see tons of people with MBA's who are complete dumbasses, and there aren't enough good engineers out there. But hey, more power to ya.

 

[SandEagle]

what about wsu?

 

[Svnla]

I did have an MBA at a well know state school but my former company paid for it, the whole thing. It did not cost me a dime.

I do think my MBA is worth it but is it worth to invest 75K plus time to you? Only you can answer that.

 

[rcpratt]

All in all, it's up to you. Do you want to brag to your kids that you have a prestigious MBA or do you want to have 500,000 more dollars when you retire? I'd want the money but maybe the 75K is chump change for you.

Well, I wouldn't be having this debate with myself if it was chump change.

I did have an MBA at a well know state school but my former company paid for it, the whole thing. It did not cost me a dime.

I do think my MBA is worth it but is it worth to invest 75K plus time to you? Only you can answer that.

What was your undergrad and what kind of business were you in?

Bums me out when I hear about companies that paid for the whole degree...I feel like a lot of people have that deal. Which is kind of why I wanted to see if they have any other programs. The business is kind of diverse and you see a lot of people taking classes at community colleges or whatnot with the $7.5k.

 

[Vic Vega]

If I were in your shoes I would go for the MBA. Your company likes you enough to want you in a management role, recognizing you aren't ready for it yet. It's your job to get yourself ready for it.

 

[silverpig]

I paid entirely for my MBA ($41k... got a sweet deal at my school), and the bump in salary I got will have it paid off (including lost wages) in just over a year.

Typically, people with technical backgrounds who are native english speakers do quite well in the MBA in my experience.

If you want some advice, invest a little extra in sending out several applications to several schools (typically they're about $100 each), then see what offers you get and try to tell them that you are interested in their school but will need at least a partial scholarship in order to justify it. Someone I know did just that.

School: We'd love to offer you a spot in our program
Person: I'd love to come, but I'm gonna need a scholarship
School: How about $20k?

 

[TridenT]

Get the MBA. You're investing a lot in this company and instead should invest in yourself.

 

[Andrew111]

I'm 23 with a degree in nuclear engineering. I have a good job in the utility industry. I've always planned on going back and getting a master's in something, probably engineering or an MBA. I've always kind of leaned towards the MBA, for whatever reason. Recent events at work have quickly accelerated my desire to do this, so I'm looking towards starting summer/fall '12 at this point.

So I'm fortunate enough to live 25 minutes away from one of the best business schools in the country (UofM, although I'll have to get over my irrational hatred for all things maize and blue). I'd have no problems doing part-time either in the evening or on weekends, although I'm leaning towards weekend. Two weekends a month, 5-9 Friday and 9-5 Saturday, for two years...not bad at all.

What's the value of going to a top school? There are other options in the area (MSU, Wayne State...and crappier stuff but I don't think I'd want to go much worse), but they don't come close to touching a UofM MBA.

Also, no I haven't even taken the GMAT or anything yet. Just starting on this. But if there's one thing I'm good at in life, it's standardized tests, and I feel moderately confident that I could get into UofM Ross.

Perhaps you should do a little research first.....the average age of admission to Ross is 28 (other top schools are roughly the same). Not to burst your bubble...but the reality is that the top schools reject over 85% of applicants and one thing they value very highly is work/leadership experience. They want people who can contribute to class discussions/case studies with real world experience. Engineers with high GMAT scores are a dime a dozen...if you really want to get into a top business school you need more years under your belt to be competitive unless you were truly outstanding during undergraduate (like a 4.0 GPA from a reputable school) and somehow gained a lot of meaningful leadership experience already.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

The best strategy is to have your employer pay for an MBA. IMO, it is not worth going into a huge amount of debt to get one -- I've seen too many people who went into huge debt to get an MBA and it didn't help them.

I've considered it too and work next to one of the top part-time MBA programs in the country, but my current employer only gives about $5K per year (IIRC). It is the one benefit they AREN'T good on and it is ironic considering what we do. My last company paid for the entire thing but you had to stay 3 years after you got it and I made a HUGE mistake not getting it.

EDIT: Just read more of your OP. Check out other schools and get their costs and compare. When you're in industry already, the years of experience count more than anything, not where you got the degree from.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I didn't pursue an MBA; however, I still managed to get a Director role leading the operations for 3 countries for a multinational organization. I did go through a bit of an unconventional route though:

1. Undergrad EE
2. Army Officer
3. Director

And I'm still under 30

An MBA is a good foundation for Financial tools; however, employers look beyond that. Can you present well? Can you defend your stance on proposals? How good is your pitch to an executive board? Are you analytical with your views and not just talk out of your ass? You can gain all these qualities without an MBA. I can analyze a P&L sheet, forecast budgets & Sales, and go through acquisition excercises. Just think before you jump into a program and have to pay back $100k. If the company pays for it then do it.

Interesting Link: http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/04/news/companies/military_business_leaders.fortune/

This is an EXCELLENT post with great advice. :thumbsup:

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I don't know, I guess I didn't really consider it. I feel like I might rather go to a cheaper local option though.

I mean, if the case is that nobody gives a shit if you have a top MBA, then I won't make the investment in a top school. I guess that's part of the question.

The only time they care is when you're coming out of a school or maybe if you're on Wall Street. You're going to be going part-time and at least on the surface, this is for your current employer so they probably don't care. Why not ask your boss his/her opinion?

My last employer was an "MBA snob," particularly in IT. It was an incredibly narrow-minded and stupid way to be, especially when you had the lazy idiots in the department who had no real working getting them while the people who were really smart but overworked didn't get them. Several of the people in that department got very questionable Master's degrees (from UoP, for example), but that made them part of his "club."

 

[silverpig]

The only time they care is when you're coming out of a school or maybe if you're on Wall Street. You're going to be going part-time and at least on the surface, this is for your current employer so they probably don't care. Why not ask your boss his/her opinion?

The other thing to consider is that much of the value of the MBA comes in the network you join. Yes, an Auburn MBA might be just as good scholastically as one from Ross, but what kind of connections does Auburn give you vs. Ross? As we all know, getting a job has less to do with what is on your resume and more to do with who you know.

If the OP plans to stay with his current company, then the school doesn't matter much. If he wants to move into something else, then the alumni network becomes more important.

 

[thegimp03]

If I were in your shoes, I would go for a full-time MBA program. Yes, there is a lot of opportunity cost (2 full years of salary coupled with a substantial cash outlay), but one of the main benefits of a MBA program is the people network you build and I think being in class 4-5 days a week enables you to grow that network. Plus, I know a few people who've completed part-time MBA programs and they all say after they've completed it that they wish they'd gone full-time.

Also, given that you're 23 and will be ~24 by the time you start the program, good MBA schools may think you're too young for the program. I was looking into programs a few years ago when I was 24 and the average candidate for the schools I was looking at (Haas/Anderson) would have an average of 5 years of work experience. Granted, the number of candidates with less work experience has probably increased in the past few years given the horrible job market for new college grads.

Edit: silverpig beat me on the networking thing, but he's absolutely correct.

 

[rcpratt]

Perhaps you should do a little research first.....the average age of admission to Ross is 28 (other top schools are roughly the same). Not to burst your bubble...but the reality is that the top schools reject over 85% of applicants and one thing they value very highly is work/leadership experience. They want people who can contribute to class discussions/case studies with real world experience. Engineers with high GMAT scores are a dime a dozen...if you really want to get into a top business school you need more years under your belt to be competitive unless you were truly outstanding during undergraduate (like a 4.0 GPA from a reputable school) and somehow gained a lot of meaningful leadership experience already.

I'm aware of many of the statistics, and rereading the OP it does probably come off a little overconfident with respect to a school like Ross. But regardless, right now I'm more at a stage of thinking about what I want to do rather than what possibilities will actually be open to me. My ideas beyond Ross are largely underdeveloped at this point as you saw, and this is mostly about whether I want to make the investment if I have the opportunity.

The job experience angle is definitely something to keep in mind regardless of where I'm looking, though.

The only time they care is when you're coming out of a school or maybe if you're on Wall Street. You're going to be going part-time and at least on the surface, this is for your current employer so they probably don't care. Why not ask your boss his/her opinion?

Oh, I plan on it. I actually work under two directors, both engineers, one with an MBA and on with an M.S. in (chemical?) engineering. The engineer is the one I've spoken to mostly so far, but I plan on talking to the other about his experience with his MBA, etc.

The other thing to consider is that much of the value of the MBA comes in the network you join. Yes, an Auburn MBA might be just as good scholastically as one from Ross, but what kind of connections does Auburn give you vs. Ross? As we all know, getting a job has less to do with what is on your resume and more to do with who you know.

If the OP plans to stay with his current company, then the school doesn't matter much. If he wants to move into something else, then the alumni network becomes more important.

This is a good point as well. While I do love my company and the job I do, I'm young, and who knows what I'll want to do in the future. As for the other post about full-time, I guess that's not something I've given much thought. Taking two years off from work is not something that sounds all that appealing to me, and I didn't think the networking opportunities would be that limited doing part-time, especially weekends.

 

[rcpratt]

Evening crowd?

 

[amdhunter]

Evening crowd?

Yeah, I like the new MBA myself. I would like to get one, but my MacBook Pro is still kicking and it wouldn't be much of an upgrade. :\

 

[silverpig]

Evening crowd?

How much of a loser am I if I'm in the evening crowd too?

 

[rcpratt]

How much of a loser am I if I'm in the evening crowd too?

Hey, welcome to the club.