McCain In For A Thumping

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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Aug 23, 2003
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Did anyone else catch the news of McSame's newest flip-flop, this time siding with Bush on the warrantless wiretapping program? Sidney is re-inventing himself daily, it seems, going from the "maverick" some knew and loved back in 2000 to an empty suit with Bush and Cheney singing lullabies into each ear.

McCain is dropping in the polls, Obama is already rising and Hillary hasn't even begun stumping for him yet. We already expected the GOP taking a thumping in the House and Senate in November, but we might also be seeing the beginnings of McSame receiving the same fate.

John McCain

House Democratic Caucus Chairman Rahm Emanuel teased Sen. John McCain on a Friday conference call with reporters, saying the notion that the presumptive GOP nominee represents "Bush's third term" has clearly become a burr under McCain's saddle due to its essential truth.

Pivoting off today's news of McCain's apparent flip-flop on President Bush's warrantless wiretapping program, Emanuel painted a portrait of near-constant agreement between McCain and the president on the Iraq war, the economy, heath care and government spending.

Referring to the Arizona Republican's widely panned Tuesday night address in New Orleans, Emanuel said: "When I was watching that speech, I was reminded of what Shakespeare said, 'Thou protest too much.' When he sits there and says, 'I am not George Bush and I wish you'd stop saying these falsehoods,' it's clearly hit a nerve because of the [truth of it]. ... And I think with core constituencies [of women, Hispanics, and working class voters] that are going to matter...when you look at the electoral map, he is not where George Bush was in 2004. He has a much higher negative rating with those constituencies and is well on his way on performing where Republicans performed in 2006."

Developing his analogy between the coming election and the thumpin' Democrats delivered to Republicans in 2006, Emanuel said the midterms amounted to "picking the lock" of an electoral map engineered by a GOP-controlled Congress, while Obama has the potential to "change the combination" of that lock altogether this November.

That would seem a bold analysis on the surface, given the conventional wisdom that Obama's support among traditional Democratic constituencies is weak. But later on the conference call, hosted by the Center for American Progress Action Fund, pollster Stan Greenberg provided evidence of Obama's potential to improve among critical Democratic groups -- citing a recent Democracy Corps poll that shows McCain's approval rating has dropped below the 50 percent mark in the last month among white union households, white unmarried women and older white, non-college men.

Greenberg went on to describe as "fantasy" the idea that Obama's occasionally underwhelming support among these groups during the primaries could be projected onto the general election race with McCain. As The Huffington Post reported Thursday, Obama is already doing better among Hispanic voters than Sen. John Kerry did in 2004. "And we've just now reached the point of consolidation [after the primaries]," Greenberg said. "I have no doubt that those things will move up as we go."
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
McCain has gone senile. He is under the impression that Bush got elected twice being this big of a tool that he can just clone himself into Bush and get elected a third time. Not gonna happen.

We got a saying in down here in Texas and I think that it's in Tennessee also:

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...you can't get fooled again.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
I think McCain is just trying to hold the Republican coalition together. He's stuck because the policies of the Republicans are pretty hugely unpopular right now so he has to pull towards the center. On the other hand, I think the far right has been long enough without the Democrats controlling the country that they are unwilling to compromise in order to prevent that from happening. I think these rightward lurches by McCain are signs of him attempting to toe that line and avoid a mutiny.

This is one of the many reasons why I think he's screwed. I don't really think it's a sign of him being crazy or whatever though.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
McCains best and worst hope is that Hillary signs on as VP. That will drive the reps back to him but at the same time those who supported Hillary will back Obama. In either case it may be Hillary who decides the election.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
are we really in for 5 months of a new thread every time a new poll comes out?

one poll mentioned by one partisan does not a trend make, and you seemed quick enough to dismiss every poll that showed Hillary being a better GE candidate than Obama.

you also forgot to mention that democracy corps is practically a wing of the democratic party.
 

gentobu

Golden Member
Jul 6, 2001
1,546
0
0
Originally posted by: loki8481
are we really in for 5 months of a new thread every time a new poll comes out?

one poll mentioned by one partisan does not a trend make, and you seemed quick enough to dismiss every poll that showed Hillary being a better GE candidate than Obama.

Yes. Everything McCain does will be thoroughly analyzed by the political experts here. He will be exposed for the lying fraud that he is. That is a fact.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,685
7,186
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i kind'a get the feeling that what hillary went through trying to derail obama's bullet train and failing is the same thing mccain is going to do with similar results.

the manufactured mud and crap just ain't going to stick.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
I think the strongest card the Republicans have is that Barack Obama is black, his wife is black, and his children are black. The whole elitest mud may stick as well. It's an oxymoron in their eyes (how can you be black and an elitest?) but things aren't supposed to make sense, just feel good.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
Originally posted by: tweaker2
i kind'a get the feeling that what hillary went through trying to derail obama's bullet train and failing is the same thing mccain is going to do with similar results.

the manufactured mud and crap just ain't going to stick.

one of Hillary's problems was that her primary arguments came from a really hollow core -- Obama's inexperienced and not ready to be commander in chief... well, Hillary didn't have much higher ground to stand on. I think McCain is in a much better position to question whether Obama is ready to take the helm of a military that's embroiled in two wars when he's never seen a battlefield.

but, who knows. it's super early, polls are meaningless at this point. hell, they'll still be meaningless the weekend before the election.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
^ McCain can also attack Obama on the issues, which Hillary could not since they agreed on everything.

The Dem election became a beauty contest in many ways.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Now you guys are trying to dumb-down Hillary campaign when only a few weeks ago you were agreeing with her. Well, I'd like to know what leadership positions McCain has been in. I'd also like to know the experience he has other than being a corrupt politician and learning from his mistakes.
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,222
654
126
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
^ McCain can also attack Obama on the issues, which Hillary could not since they agreed on everything.

The Dem election became a beauty contest in many ways.

Similarly, a lot of Hillary supporters who said they would rather vote for McCain will likely move towards Obama when said issues are brought to light.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,726
2,501
126
Personally I don't see how a McCain flipflop on warrantless wiretapping hurts him. It's a fairly esoteric subject that (unfortunately) floats way over the head of most voters. Further, I think it would increase his status among his core because they would perceive it as being tough on terrorism. After all that's how GWB successfully sold it the first time.

What will hurt McCain is if he starts going after Latinos by emphasizing his position on immigration. That would enflame his core against him.

I'd love to see a series of ads re which John McCain do you trust? The only that was against the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy-or the one that is for them now, etc. with a half dozen easy to understand flip flops per ad. And the final point-honest judgment trumps so-called experience.
 

da loser

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,037
0
0
Originally posted by: eskimospy
I think McCain is just trying to hold the Republican coalition together. He's stuck because the policies of the Republicans are pretty hugely unpopular right now so he has to pull towards the center. On the other hand, I think the far right has been long enough without the Democrats controlling the country that they are unwilling to compromise in order to prevent that from happening. I think these rightward lurches by McCain are signs of him attempting to toe that line and avoid a mutiny.

This is one of the many reasons why I think he's screwed. I don't really think it's a sign of him being crazy or whatever though.

yeah mccain is screwed. he's not the true red republican. he's a centrist competing in a campaign where the conservatives are going to stay home.

and they're not going to come out for him despite what he keeps saying. but he has to if wants to earn any money.

then you got obama trying to paint him as one driving away the center from him. it'll be interesting if the decades of being labeled as a maverick can be swept away in one election.

he's really doing the only thing possible, hoping to god the war and the economy turn around.
 

punchkin

Banned
Dec 13, 2007
852
0
0
Originally posted by: eskimospy
I think McCain is just trying to hold the Republican coalition together. He's stuck because the policies of the Republicans are pretty hugely unpopular right now so he has to pull towards the center. On the other hand, I think the far right has been long enough without the Democrats controlling the country that they are unwilling to compromise in order to prevent that from happening. I think these rightward lurches by McCain are signs of him attempting to toe that line and avoid a mutiny.

This is one of the many reasons why I think he's screwed. I don't really think it's a sign of him being crazy or whatever though.

A good analysis.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
^ McCain can also attack Obama on the issues, which Hillary could not since they agreed on everything.

The Dem election became a beauty contest in many ways.
What are these issues you're talking about? Obama will smack mccain on all of them because he is on the correct side of them. Of course keeping quotes by him and mccain in the run up to iraq as his kill-all trump card available at all times.
What will hurt McCain is if he starts going after Latinos by emphasizing his position on immigration. That would enflame his core against him.
another is environmental issues, typically the realm of proactive democrats who will (and some already have) found shock to realize that he has proposed very aggressive/expensive plans that normally one would associate with a dem.
he's really doing the only thing possible, hoping to god the war and the economy turn around.
a "win" in iraq would defintely help, and substantially. If it continues on through nov as it has been, it's just another project he signed off on that has failed.
 

rockyct

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2001
6,656
32
91
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
^ McCain can also attack Obama on the issues, which Hillary could not since they agreed on everything.

The Dem election became a beauty contest in many ways.
What are these issues you're talking about? Obama will smack mccain on all of them because he is on the correct side of them. Of course keeping quotes by him and mccain in the run up to iraq as his kill-all trump card available at all times.
What will hurt McCain is if he starts going after Latinos by emphasizing his position on immigration. That would enflame his core against him.
another is environmental issues, typically the realm of proactive democrats who will (and some already have) found shock to realize that he has proposed very aggressive/expensive plans that normally one would associate with a dem.
he's really doing the only thing possible, hoping to god the war and the economy turn around.
a "win" in iraq would defintely help, and substantially. If it continues on through nov as it has been, it's just another project he signed off on that has failed.

I think the issue will Iraq is shifting from the violence/killing of troops, etc. to the real cost we're going to have to pay for it. It's great that the violence is going down in Iraq, but with our economy on shaky grounds, can we really afford it?

I agree with a lot that eskimospy said above. The GOP begrudgingly voted for McCain because honestly, no one else even had a shot at winning and they knew it. If McCain reassured his base now when less people are watching, he could go more to the center when people start to watch him in a few weeks. Now was his time to solidify his base and I don't think he's done that.

I don't want to look too far ahead as it's only June 6, but the biggest problem I see for McCain is that there are a lot more states in play this year and ones few expected, including some to possible swing his way. Virginia, Colorado, Missouri, Nevada, New Mexico, Indiana, South Carolina are all in play this year plus the usual Ohio, Iowa, PA, WI, NH, CT, and MI. States like SC and Indiana will probably solidify red, but still, the early map shows a lot of problems for him. Obama has shown to have an amazing ground team and the ability to raise tons of cash. That could turn a close race right now to a blowout by Nov.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
^ McCain can also attack Obama on the issues, which Hillary could not since they agreed on everything.

The Dem election became a beauty contest in many ways.


Issues, Kimosabe?

Name an issue where McCain differs from Bush, the most unpopular president since forever...
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
^ McCain can also attack Obama on the issues, which Hillary could not since they agreed on everything.

The Dem election became a beauty contest in many ways.


Issues, Kimosabe?

Name an issue where McCain differs from Bush, the most unpopular president since forever...

Gitmo, global warming, IRS reform.

At least make it hard next time.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
Originally posted by: lupi
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
^ McCain can also attack Obama on the issues, which Hillary could not since they agreed on everything.

The Dem election became a beauty contest in many ways.


Issues, Kimosabe?

Name an issue where McCain differs from Bush, the most unpopular president since forever...

Gitmo, global warming, IRS reform.

At least make it hard next time.

He did make it too easy for you. It's not that McCain doesn't differ from Bush at all, it's just that he has policy positions that are nearly identical to Bush on the vast majority of issues.

You're right he differs on gitmo and global warming. Unfortunately for the rest of us he's the same on the war, taxes, foreign policy, health care, executive power, warrantless wiretapping, abortion, stem cell research, teaching creationism in our classrooms, etc... etc... etc...
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Gitmo? What's the difference? Quit torturing the captives, just keep them forever? Like there's anything left to learn from guys who've been locked up for 5+ years... Or that there will be any sort of convictions in a court not of the kangaroo variety...

Global warming? Heh. Bush recently acknowledged that we might, maybe, have a wee bit of a problem there, and that he thinks we should, uhh, err, yeh, that is, study the problem, kinda like McSame...

IRS reform? I think that Bush and McCain are in agreement that the IRS and the tax laws should be revamped so that the rich pay even less and the rest of us even more... maintaining the war, the military industrial complex and corporate welfare thru debt acquisition... but they're both against teh ebil earmarks, <1% of the total federal budget...
 
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