Md. forces Wal-Mart to spend more on health

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: Crucial

Originally posted by: Zalez
This could be the start of a retail empire crumbling to the ground

This could be the start of 17,000 lost jobs in MD. Walmart will leave MD altogether before bowing down to this BS mandate.

Not a chance. as long as they're still making more profit from being there than they're making from having no stores (more than zero)... they'll stay.

 

[Ornery]

Inner cities continue to hemorrhage jobs

• Brian Sullivan, a spokesman for the Department of Housing and Urban Development, said many businesses and communities have benefited from the programs. He said HUD is trying to better promote the tax incentives, especially among small-business owners.
  
  But, Sullivan said, many communities could do more to remove local barriers to development, such as cumbersome regulations.
  
  "We're not trying to preach to people that you are over-regulating," he said. "But it is true that in some parts of the country the regulatory climate puts out the unwelcome mat."
  
  ...The Clinton administration launched the urban empowerment zone initiative in 1994, designating six zones, in New York, Chicago, Detroit, Philadelphia, Atlanta and Baltimore.
  
  Each was awarded $100 million for a host of programs, including job training, social services and tax incentives for businesses. Fifteen more empowerment zones were designated in 1998, each receiving about $25 million.
  
  A HUD-commissioned assessment of the first empowerment zones found mixed results from 1995 to 2000. Although many individual projects were creating jobs and reviving neighborhoods, the study found no widespread, sustained job creation.
  
  "There is little evidence to indicate that major reform or 'reinvention' occurred," the assessment said.
  
  After President Bush took office in 2001, grants were phased out in favor of tax incentives.
  
  "You can give somebody a one-time grant, but if you can cut their taxes each and every year, that's serious coin, potentially," HUD's Sullivan said.

Regulation and the Urban Marketplace

• Upon taking office, I sought to tackle our regulatory problems by first preparing a full inventory of all the areas we regulate. Then we surveyed local businesses to gauge their sense of the regulatory impact on doing business in Indianapolis. The top three responses listed as "Impacts on Profits" were: taxes, environmental regulations, and "all other regulations." Community leaders had often complained about local regulation, but this survey gave us our first hard data about the degree of public discontent with the local regulatory climate.

WHAT A TAX ABATEMENT DOES?

• The primary purpose of a tax abatement, or tax phase-in, is to attract private investment and to create jobs. However, in an effort to protect their investment and to help ensure a fair return, taxing entities generally establish economic threshold criteria.
  
  Tax abatement is a business favorite because property tax savings help offset certain business expansion or relocation cost.
  
  Tax abatements lower the tax burden in companies and could create jobs without burdening local infrastructure.
  
  Wise use of tax abatements keep growing companies in place and attract new one's.
  
  Tax abatements often bring rich economic dividends.
  
  Tax abatements should create new wealth in the economy which supports workers, schools and companies alike and then phase-back onto the tax rolls.

New York Helps Garlock Rebuild

• ?Our economic development team responded quickly to the possibility that Garlock Sealing Technologies might close and hundreds of local jobs would be lost,? explains Gargano. ?Our goal was to use our programs and resources to leverage private investment to keep this facility up and running and to preserve these important manufacturing jobs here in New York. This was a collaborative effort among agencies and local officials to make this happen.?
  
  Garlock Sealing Technologies is eligible to apply to Empire State Development for a $2.1 million capital grant and a $1 million Empire Opportunity Fund grant. As part of the arrangement with the state and Wayne County, the company also will be eligible for sales tax savings on new construction and real property tax abatement. The company is eligible for a package of state and local package of incentives, including Brownfield Cleanup Tax Credits that will total nearly $8 million.

Success Stories...

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Inner cities continue to hemorrhage jobs

• Brian Sullivan, a spokesman for the Department of Housing and Urban Development, said many businesses and communities have benefited from the programs. He said HUD is trying to better promote the tax incentives, especially among small-business owners.
  
  But, Sullivan said, many communities could do more to remove local barriers to development, such as cumbersome regulations.
  
  "We're not trying to preach to people that you are over-regulating," he said. "But it is true that in some parts of the country the regulatory climate puts out the unwelcome mat."
  
  ...The Clinton administration launched the urban empowerment zone initiative in 1994, designating six zones, in New York, Chicago, Detroit, Philadelphia, Atlanta and Baltimore.
  
  Each was awarded $100 million for a host of programs, including job training, social services and tax incentives for businesses. Fifteen more empowerment zones were designated in 1998, each receiving about $25 million.
  
  A HUD-commissioned assessment of the first empowerment zones found mixed results from 1995 to 2000. Although many individual projects were creating jobs and reviving neighborhoods, the study found no widespread, sustained job creation.
  
  "There is little evidence to indicate that major reform or 'reinvention' occurred," the assessment said.
  
  After President Bush took office in 2001, grants were phased out in favor of tax incentives.
  
  "You can give somebody a one-time grant, but if you can cut their taxes each and every year, that's serious coin, potentially," HUD's Sullivan said.

Regulation and the Urban Marketplace

• Upon taking office, I sought to tackle our regulatory problems by first preparing a full inventory of all the areas we regulate. Then we surveyed local businesses to gauge their sense of the regulatory impact on doing business in Indianapolis. The top three responses listed as "Impacts on Profits" were: taxes, environmental regulations, and "all other regulations." Community leaders had often complained about local regulation, but this survey gave us our first hard data about the degree of public discontent with the local regulatory climate.

WHAT A TAX ABATEMENT DOES?

• The primary purpose of a tax abatement, or tax phase-in, is to attract private investment and to create jobs. However, in an effort to protect their investment and to help ensure a fair return, taxing entities generally establish economic threshold criteria.
  
  Tax abatement is a business favorite because property tax savings help offset certain business expansion or relocation cost.
  
  Tax abatements lower the tax burden in companies and could create jobs without burdening local infrastructure.
  
  Wise use of tax abatements keep growing companies in place and attract new one's.
  
  Tax abatements often bring rich economic dividends.
  
  Tax abatements should create new wealth in the economy which supports workers, schools and companies alike and then phase-back onto the tax rolls.

New York Helps Garlock Rebuild

• ?Our economic development team responded quickly to the possibility that Garlock Sealing Technologies might close and hundreds of local jobs would be lost,? explains Gargano. ?Our goal was to use our programs and resources to leverage private investment to keep this facility up and running and to preserve these important manufacturing jobs here in New York. This was a collaborative effort among agencies and local officials to make this happen.?
  
  Garlock Sealing Technologies is eligible to apply to Empire State Development for a $2.1 million capital grant and a $1 million Empire Opportunity Fund grant. As part of the arrangement with the state and Wayne County, the company also will be eligible for sales tax savings on new construction and real property tax abatement. The company is eligible for a package of state and local package of incentives, including Brownfield Cleanup Tax Credits that will total nearly $8 million.

Success Stories...

Abatments are good...just not for retail stores. Your link shows 2 retail examples, both distribution centers. Which I think is a good investment.

When walmart opens a new store with 1 million from the city.

The city just took sales from existing retail stores and sent it to their competitor.

At least earmark tax dollars for small business retail that sells speciality items rather than what you find at walmart, target , kmart.

Walmart needs a wake-up on how to treat employees, and the cities/ states that provide customers for them.

 

[Ornery]

Some people consider abatements to be ""corporate welfare" no matter who receives them. Guess they'd rather let the neighborhoods continue to rot instead. Cutting their nose off to spite their face, eh?

Their competitor wasn't stepping up to renovate that area. Hell, their "competitors" are probably small, shyster grocers who charge $2.00 for a pack of gum!

Certain areas are targeted for economic development for a reason. If the only businesses interested are retail, why not? If the area is already zoned for retail, that would also be a good reason. Either way, something had to be done!

 

[Metron]

Your arguments are laughable... you have no knowledge of the area. I've lived in Dallas for nearly 40 years. Lake Highlands is on the far north edge of Dallas (where the money and development has been for decades). Your argument contending that the area is "blighted" and full of unsavory characters is specious.

Your "evidence" consists of questionable statements made by a pro-Walmart councilman.

If you were talking about Oak Cliff (in South Dallas), you'd have a more reasonable argument... but you're not.

What you have here is ward politics at it's best.

Within 5 miles of that proposed location (Abrams and 635), you have at least 5 Target stores!

Within 10 miles (10 minutes) of that intersection you have at least 18 EXISTING WALMART STORES.... WTF do you need another?

With more than 23 direct alternatives (at least) to the new store, I certainly didn't want $1 million of my tax dollars going to support Walmart. Your argument is a joke. :roll:

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Metron
Your arguments are laughable... you have no knowledge of the area. I've lived in Dallas for nearly 40 years. Lake Highlands is on the far north edge of Dallas (where the money and development has been for decades). Your argument contending that the area is "blighted" and full of unsavory characters is specious.

Your "evidence" consists of questionable statements made by a pro-Walmart councilman.

If you were talking about Oak Cliff (in South Dallas), you'd have a more reasonable argument... but you're not.

What you have here is ward politics at it's best.

Within 5 miles of that proprosed location (Abrams and 635), you have at least 5 Target stores!

Within 10 miles (10 minutes) of that intersection you have at least 18 EXISTING WALMART STORES.... WTF do you need another?

With more than 28 direct alternatives (at least) to the new store, I certainly didn't want $1 million of my tax dollars going to support Walmart. Your argument is a joke. :roll:

Don't forget about the 6 lane exit ramp all you taxpayers paid for to have the Interstate exit into the parking lot of Walmart Headquarters. :laugh:

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: eits
shut up, you heartless fvck.

with that mentality, you'll change "land of the free" to "land of the fvcked over"...

yeah, idealy, people are the "architect of their own life." however, the world isn't perfect and, believe it or not, neither are americans. life happens, people grow up wrong, people make stupid decisions, etc... what do you propose? everyone come out of the womb perfect? for mistakes or improper environments to be without blemish?

gtfo.

I do have a heart, and my heart goes out to all the people who made the right decisions in life but whose hard earned money is taken from them and given to those who failed at life. Doesn't anyone feel bad for them? Why so much sympathy for the worst of society? The druggies? The criminals? The lay-a-bouts?

"Today's mawkish concern with and compassion for the feeble, the flawed, the suffering, the guilty, is a cover for the profoundly Kantian hatred of the innocent, the strong, the able, the successful, the virtuous, the confident, the happy. A philosophy out to destroy man's mind is necessarily a philosophy of hatred for man, for man's life, and for every human value. Hatred of the good for being the good, is the hallmark of the twentieth century."
--Ayn Rand

 

[Metron]

I disagree with you, if you're characterizing Walmart as "good."

I qualify as one of...

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
...all the people who made the right decisions in life but whose hard earned money is taken from them and given to those who failed at life...

namely Walmart.

I feel my hard earned tax dollars are being taken from me, and given to a company who failed at life by cheating their employees and by taking government hand outs of $1 million dollars to build a store where 18 more already exist. You want to stop the handouts to the poor? How about stopping the handouts to a company which has no need of them. What a wretched waste of tax dollars!

So, when Maryland's legislature attempts to reign in a company with abysmal corporate ethics, no integrity, and no loyalty... I applaud them.

 

[razor2025]

I don't understand why people are bashing the legislature of MD for this. For a rare occasion, a government body is doing something for the public good. We all know that the corporate culture of today has centered around personal greed and short-term profit. While I do agree that it's everyone's right to profit by any means, I also like to remind what our government was created for, the PEOPLE. Sure, it's Walmart's every right to compensate their employee by whatever they deem fit. It's also Walmart's right to run their business whatever methods they chose. It is also our government's purpose to lookout for their constituents, the people. Thus, it is government's responsibility to look out the common people. What legislature of MD is doing is what should've been done years ago. MD politicians finally have the guts to reign in on Walmart's destructive business methods. Finally, I see a shred of light. I have almost given up hope of any government intervention.

I hope other states will follow suit. If enough states reign in on Walmart (and probably other abusive employers), things will start to look sane again. As for Walmart leaving MD, it'll hurt both. Walmart will lose marketshare and potential to lose even more when other states adopt MD's law. MD will hurt in which the poor population will have to pay a bit more for their neccessities. The empty space left by Walmart will probably get filled by Walmart's competitors, which will refill the jobs that left with Walmart.

There is too many posters on this thread are screaming "free market" and "free country" without truly knowing what they mean. A "free market" is an ideal where participants trade without any significant advantage favoring one side. Without a government that looks out for the common people, Joe Sixpack has no chance against Walmart. A "free country" does not mean that Walmart can do whatever they wish to become profitable. If it wasn't for labor and consumer laws, sweatshops and toxic goods will still be around in America. I'm sure Walmart would love to bring those back if they could.

 

[razor2025]

I would also like to note that the way Walmart conduct business is NOT what capitalism is about. Capitalism/Free Market is most efficient when there are many competitors offering similar goods. When Walmart becomes the almighty "retail behemoth" (or a monopoly) it wants to be, do you think they will continue to offer lower prices?

 

[Ornery]

Your "evidence" consists of questionable statements made by a pro-Walmart councilman.

I didn't pick that example to work with you did. This topic is about MD. The majority of your councilmen voted for whatever enticements were offered to Walmart for whatever reason.


...a government body is doing something for the public good...

Yep, they offer incentives for businesses to locate or stay in their area.


Joe Sixpack has no chance against Walmart.

Anybody would be stupid to try and compete where they're outgunned or under bid. After WWII our entire transistor radio business was "lost" to Japan. Why would we bother trying to build 'em as cheap as they could? In turn, Japan lost that business to other Asiatic countries for the same reason. Our transistor radio builders suffered, but consumers gained very affordable radios. Would you rather we applied tariffs to protect GE, RCA and Zenith instead?

Sun Television, Best Buy and Circuit City moved right down the street from a mom & pop (Joe Sixpack) shop who have been selling TVs in our city for 40 years. According to you they're doomed trying to compete with the likes of those behemoths. Hell, they even have two Walmarts to compete with only 6 miles away in either direction. Doomed right? Guess again! No more doomed than our companies who lost transistor radio sales back in the '50s.

If you don't like Walmart's low prices, don't shop there. If you want your employer to buy your health insurance, don't work there. If you don't want your councilmen to grant incentives to them, don't vote for them!

 

[Metron]

Did you even look at the Yahoo listing link that shows over 18 Walmarts within 10 miles of the Lake Highlands site (including one that is 1.8 miles away)?

Both the you and most of the Dallas City Council have made yourselves look foolish for supporting useless tax incentives for a site that has more than enough Walmarts already (18).

You've made at least half a dozen posts attempting to support your arguments for reform of urban blight. Have a quarter, buy a clue, that's not the point. Lake Highlands isn't suffering from too many prostitutes, it has too many Walmarts.

In your mind, government's sole function is to "..offer incentives to businesses to locate or stay in their area." Get a grip! Your lobbyist blood is bleeding through the pores of your skin.

Yes, this thread is about Maryland... and it'a about Walmart. The point is that Walmart doesn't deserve any special treatment. In fact, the opposite is true... they deserve extra attention in terms of enforcement, and Maryland is more than happy to oblidge.

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: razor2025
There is too many posters on this thread are screaming "free market" and "free country" without truly knowing what they mean. A "free market" is an ideal where participants trade without any significant advantage favoring one side. Without a government that looks out for the common people, Joe Sixpack has no chance against Walmart. A "free country" does not mean that Walmart can do whatever they wish to become profitable. If it wasn't for labor and consumer laws, sweatshops and toxic goods will still be around in America. I'm sure Walmart would love to bring those back if they could.

A free market does not mean you force people to be equal.

A free market is where you get to throw your weight around, the weight you earned.

If you don't want to work for Walmart because of their poor health benefits, don't. Find a job elsewhere. That's a free market.

 

[ElFenix]

the 'free market' call is underlain by the hypothetical competitive market. the hypothetical competitve market is just that, hypothetical. it does not and cannot exist. the closest thing that exists to it is a big stock exchange. and we know it isn't competitive because insiders consistently make much higher profits than everyone else.

 

[Metron]

People who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Study your history son.

Things like the Sherman Antitrust Act and the Clayton Antitrust Act were enacted because Standard Oil and American Tobacco thought they could "throw their weight around, the weight they [thought they] earned."

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
the 'free market' call is underlain by the hypothetical competitive market. the hypothetical competitve market is just that, hypothetical. it does not and cannot exist. the closest thing that exists to it is a big stock exchange. and we know it isn't competitive because insiders consistently make much higher profits than everyone else.

Link? No?

You most likely don't even know what the legal definition of an "insider" is.

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: Metron
People who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Study your history son.

Things like the Sherman Antitrust Act and the Clayton Antitrust Act were enacted because Standard Oil and American Tobacco thought they could "throw their weight around, the weight they earned."

And what's wrong with that? Rockefeller deserved to keep Standard Oil. It was his property.

A lot of good and a lot of bad comes with a free market. I don't want a utopia. I just want a society based on a principal of freedom. I'll take all the good and all the bad that comes with it.

 

[Metron]

I'll defer to razor2025's signature:

It's futile to argue with an idiot. The best you can hope for is to have natural selection work faster.

 

[Mill]

JLGatsby - Are you for healthcare as a whole? Don't you tend to believe it needlessly extends the life of humans who can no longer work? They are past their usefulness as a person when they can no longer work. Why let them live?

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: Mill
JLGatsby - Are you for healthcare as a whole? Don't you tend to believe it needlessly extends the life of humans who can no longer work? They are past their usefulness as a person when they can no longer work. Why let them live?

I feel that healthcare is a luxury and if you cannot afford it you don't deserve it.

America did fine the first 150 years without abundant healthcare.

 

[Ornery]

The Dallas City Council is your government at work. They layed out their reasons for, and you layed out your reasons against... the citizens they represent won, and you lost.

Political stunts like this are just one more reason for businesses not to come to Maryland, champions of the poor!

 

[Metron]

While factual, your first two statements are immaterial to our debate. They don't excuse the blatant stupidity of offering Walmart a million dollars in tax incentives to build a 19th store in a 10 mile radius of Lake Highlands.

I want more supporters like you for Walmart... you make easy targets.

*edited* to pre-empt Ornery's semantic argument on tax incentives

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: Metron
I want more supporters like you for Walmart... you make easy targets.

I want less people who don't know how to use the "quote" feature.

 

[Metron]

When you reply right after the post, why waste the space?

Besides in your case Gatsby, I'm waiting for Darwinian natural selection.

 

[Ornery]

Nobody has paid your Walmart anything, numbnuts.

I'm so GD sick of the retarded nested quote nonsense around here, I wish somebody would nuke this fvcking "quote feature".