Md. forces Wal-Mart to spend more on health

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Metron

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2003
1,163
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0
I concur on both counts Ornery. (I am working locally to prevent Walmart from collecting anything, or building that store. Blockage has happened in other areas of the country.)

On that note, I'm off to dinner. Good evening to all.
 

Sysbuilder05

Senior member
Nov 10, 2004
409
0
0
Originally posted by: Crucial
Originally posted by: Zalez
This could be the start of a retail empire crumbling to the ground

This could be the start of 17,000 lost jobs in MD. Walmart will leave MD altogether before bowing down to this BS mandate.


LOL,go for it Walmart. Pack up your marbles and go home. Watch what happens then. Target,CostCo and other merchants come right in behind you and profit dearly even with having to pay more of the health care costs of LOYAL employees.

Hell,maybe if Walmart paid SOMEONE SOMETHING they wouldn't have to enact a law like this. 1.2 MILLION employees would get you a HELL of a cheap health care plan,but Wally World just doesn't care if their main stream employees have health insurance or not.

Gee...wonder what kind of health care plan Lee Scott has? Oh..he's the CEO of Walmart if anyone was wondering

 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,015
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
Originally posted by: Sysbuilder05
Originally posted by: Crucial
Originally posted by: Zalez
This could be the start of a retail empire crumbling to the ground

This could be the start of 17,000 lost jobs in MD. Walmart will leave MD altogether before bowing down to this BS mandate.


LOL,go for it Walmart. Pack up your marbles and go home. Watch what happens then. Target,CostCo and other merchants come right in behind you and profit dearly even with having to pay more of the health care costs of LOYAL employees.

Hell,maybe if Walmart paid SOMEONE SOMETHING they wouldn't have to enact a law like this. 1.2 MILLION employees would get you a HELL of a cheap health care plan,but Wally World just doesn't care if their main stream employees have health insurance or not.

Gee...wonder what kind of health care plan Lee Scott has? Oh..he's the CEO of Walmart if anyone was wondering

right on
 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
4,868
1
0
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: Mill
JLGatsby - Are you for healthcare as a whole? Don't you tend to believe it needlessly extends the life of humans who can no longer work? They are past their usefulness as a person when they can no longer work. Why let them live?

I feel that healthcare is a luxury and if you cannot afford it you don't deserve it.

America did fine the first 150 years without abundant healthcare.


But you have insurance, right?
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,354
8,444
126
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: ElFenix
the 'free market' call is underlain by the hypothetical competitive market. the hypothetical competitve market is just that, hypothetical. it does not and cannot exist. the closest thing that exists to it is a big stock exchange. and we know it isn't competitive because insiders consistently make much higher profits than everyone else.

Link? No?

You most likely don't even know what the legal definition of an "insider" is.

well there is 16b of the securities exchange act of 1934, there is also the one from Rule 10b-5(a).
 

razor2025

Diamond Member
May 24, 2002
3,010
0
71
Yes, Free Market and Free Country/Society are all hypothetical ideals that are 99.99% impossible to achieve, but we're alot better off TRYING to achieve than not trying. We've already have thousands upon thousands of years of history that indicate what kinda mess it is to have a society with two extremes and very little middle. I certainly don't want communistic utopia, but I can't tolerate having the society moving back towards the extremes of the past.

If nothing is done in regards to corporate greed, it WILL bring down alot of the advancement we've made in society. Don't be surprised when being born into a rich family is the only way of escape from poverty, just like two hundred years ago.
 

Metron

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2003
1,163
0
0
*posting* to razor2025's placeholder post:

razor, come in... I need backup!
 

razor2025

Diamond Member
May 24, 2002
3,010
0
71
Originally posted by: JLGatsby

A free market does not mean you force people to be equal.

A free market is where you get to throw your weight around, the weight you earned.

If you don't want to work for Walmart because of their poor health benefits, don't. Find a job elsewhere. That's a free market.

I suggest you take a good class on Micro-Economics. Free market is just what it is. FREE. No cost to enter, no cost to exit. If you have someone throwing the weight around, how is it free entry? For example, if(lol) Walmart is large company with "weight" around, then the labor market also need to form a coalition to match Walmart's "weight". Usually, the labor market = the population, so the people create a representative government as its coalition against Walmart. Without coalition, the labor will lose out in any labor negotiations, thus their entry to the market is no longer free. They have to take a loss(cut in wage/benefit) to enter the market. Of course, ideals and reality never mix, but someone has to start with an idea.




Originally posted by: JLGatsby
You most likely don't even know what the legal definition of an "insider" is.

As Metron have posted, insider is usually considered anyone who owns stocks of companies who's also working at the company. I like the idea of rewards with stock options, however greed has corrupted it by allowing executives to cash in their options too soon. It becomes a negative effect on the company's overall health when the executives are hell-bent on making short-term profit (for obvious reasons) and sacrifice their company's long-term health. You know, like those Enron peeps.


Originally posted by: JLGatsby
And what's wrong with that? Rockefeller deserved to keep Standard Oil. It was his property.

A lot of good and a lot of bad comes with a free market. I don't want a utopia. I just want a society based on a principal of freedom. I'll take all the good and all the bad that comes with it.

Again, you need to take economics class to know why a Monopoly = BAD for society. If Rockefeller was allowed to keep his Standard Oil, do you know how detrimental it would've been to the American public? Imagine this, one single company supplying ALL of our petroleum in the country. You think $3/gal was bad? Imagine $30/gal or worse. And don't even think about "another company will compete", because Rockefeller certainly would crushed ANY competition with his "weight".


Originally posted by: JLGatsby
I feel that healthcare is a luxury and if you cannot afford it you don't deserve it.

America did fine the first 150 years without abundant healthcare.


I can't believe you can actually type that without giving it a second thought. Hmm let's see, I think it was less than 100 years ago that MILLIONS have died from influenza, which thanks to advancement in healthcare and society's value placed UPON it, it lost most of its killing power today. Healthcare is most certainly NOT a luxury, it is neccessity for survival of any society. Do you want to get the next-deadly disease from Joe Sixpack simply because he couldn't afford to go see a doctor?

Originally posted by: Sysbuilder05
LOL,go for it Walmart. Pack up your marbles and go home. Watch what happens then. Target,CostCo and other merchants come right in behind you and profit dearly even with having to pay more of the health care costs of LOYAL employees.

Oh I do hope that happens. Because that's one avenue of attack to force Walmart to change. Costco is a shining example of what ideals is. If people uses their common sense (and a bit of knowledge) and alot less greed, Walmart could've turned into something like Costco (which is what its original founder, Sam Walton, wanted until his heirs bastardized his company with greed).
 

razor2025

Diamond Member
May 24, 2002
3,010
0
71
I think SouthPark's epsisode on Walmart parody illustrates our problem rather well. If the average consumer cannot see beyond Walmart's "cheap prices" then nothing will change. It's simple "Tragedy of Commons" syndrome of modern society. If a solution doesn't come up with how to solve the problem, even Walmart's demise will not help. Another will simply takes its place.
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
...a solution doesn't come up with how to solve the problem...

You have a "solution"? Anything to do with taxing, and regulating the crap out of businesses, till all is rosy Hillaryworld?
 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
4,868
1
0
Originally posted by: Ornery
...a solution doesn't come up with how to solve the problem...

You have a "solution"? Anything to do with taxing, and regulating the crap out of businesses, till all is rosy Hillaryworld?


All the tax breaks went to the shareholders and CEOs, not new jobs.
 

razor2025

Diamond Member
May 24, 2002
3,010
0
71
Originally posted by: Ornery
...a solution doesn't come up with how to solve the problem...

You have a "solution"? Anything to do with taxing, and regulating the crap out of businesses, till all is rosy Hillaryworld?

I wish I do have the solution. I'm sure a good number of people would want me dead if they know I have one. As far as taxation and regulation, what's wrong with that? Just as there are taxes that decrease economic efficiency, there are taxes that increase efficiency. If there is no regulation on business, laissez faire, things CERTAINLY would not look as good as today. I certainly hope tragedy like Triangle Shirt doesn't happen again.

Why do we always have to place ourselves in extreme? You automatically assumed that I want government to regulate/tax everything possible, which I certainly don't. Just with anything in life, moderation and balance is everything. Yes, we can let business some room to grow and innovate, but we must also place rules and restriction to control our natural urge for greed. As with any balancing act, it is perpetual trial-and-error. Just like ideals, reality would never get it perfectly, but it certainly doesn't hurt to try.
 

razor2025

Diamond Member
May 24, 2002
3,010
0
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I'm going to sign off for today with this comment. Gotta get some work done while I'm still awake.

I must admit that I'm young, naive, and idealistic. I must also say that I've gained cynicism/doubts of wiser/older adults from few life-experiences I've been through. There is no doubt that things won't turn out for better if technology doesn't bring a solution along. Even more imporatant issue is for people to continue advancing themselves to the ideal. Even if we may never get to (or close to) the ideals, we certainly be better off by trying.

The society and its safety nets you enjoy today are gifts from sacrifices of workers in years past. Without the deaths from Triangle Shirt(and others), safety in workplace will just be as bad as then. Without the suffering of sweathshop workers, wages and conditions would never have changed. Just as freedom is never free. People of past have made sacrifices for our better life. We also must sacrifice somewhat to give our future generation a better chance at life. This sound rediculously naive, but I still try to hold on to this belief. Even animals sacrifices themselves so their young can have a better life.

As for those that must place their greed above anything else. I have nothing against them. If you can profit without harming anyone else, so be it. However, it is also my right to do whatever needed to prevent such greed from harming myself and my family.
 

JLGatsby

Banned
Sep 6, 2005
4,525
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Originally posted by: razor2025
I suggest you take a good class on Micro-Economics. Free market is just what it is. FREE. No cost to enter, no cost to exit. If you have someone throwing the weight around, how is it free entry? For example, if(lol) Walmart is large company with "weight" around, then the labor market also need to form a coalition to match Walmart's "weight". Usually, the labor market = the population, so the people create a representative government as its coalition against Walmart. Without coalition, the labor will lose out in any labor negotiations, thus their entry to the market is no longer free. They have to take a loss(cut in wage/benefit) to enter the market. Of course, ideals and reality never mix, but someone has to start with an idea.

I suggest you open a dictionary.

Free market means "free" as in "freedom." It has nothing to do with "no cost."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market

transfers are not forcibly restricted or impeded

FREE as in FREEDOM, not "without cost."

Read about it.

To imply a free market is "without cost" implies that everyone holds the same value, which is the core belief held by communism. So you're saying a free market is really "communism"? I don't think so. You're tacking your own definition to "free market."

Free = freedom, not "without cost."

As Metron have posted, insider is usually considered anyone who owns stocks of companies who's also working at the company. I like the idea of rewards with stock options, however greed has corrupted it by allowing executives to cash in their options too soon. It becomes a negative effect on the company's overall health when the executives are hell-bent on making short-term profit (for obvious reasons) and sacrifice their company's long-term health. You know, like those Enron peeps.

Boy do you need to open a book.

An insider is an "officer" of a company. Meaning an employee with special status (CEO, COO, Sn Vice President, etc).

Directors (the board of directors) are also considered insiders.

Also beneficial owners (those who own more than 5%) are also considered insiders.

When you speak of "insiders" you're speaking of a very small group of people.



Again, you need to take economics class to know why a Monopoly = BAD for society. If Rockefeller was allowed to keep his Standard Oil, do you know how detrimental it would've been to the American public? Imagine this, one single company supplying ALL of our petroleum in the country. You think $3/gal was bad? Imagine $30/gal or worse. And don't even think about "another company will compete", because Rockefeller certainly would crushed ANY competition with his "weight".

You really have rocks for brains.

OPEC holds a virtual monopoly on the world's oil supply and they often increase supply (for the purpose of lowering prices) because it hinders world economic growth. They openly say that they would rather lower oil prices to improve the economy than to increase prices because overall they make more money when the world economy is doing well.

When everyone else is doing well, they're doing well, and visa versa.

If they charged $30 bucks a gallon for gas, think of what that would do to the economy. It would destroy it. And if the economy is dead, how much gas do you think they're going to sell? Hardly none! It's in their advantage to lower prices and most all companies know this.

I can't believe you can actually type that without giving it a second thought. Hmm let's see, I think it was less than 100 years ago that MILLIONS have died from influenza, which thanks to advancement in healthcare and society's value placed UPON it, it lost most of its killing power today. Healthcare is most certainly NOT a luxury, it is neccessity for survival of any society. Do you want to get the next-deadly disease from Joe Sixpack simply because he couldn't afford to go see a doctor?

Necessity for survival? The human race made most of it's greatest advances without widespread healthcare.

You could argue that friendship and love and happiness are necessary for survial. Should we be buying people wives and iPods to make them happy?

All the sudden someone invents something and suddenly it becomes a "life necessity." Give me a break.
 

Metron

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2003
1,163
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0
Originally posted by: iskim86
walmart rocks!!!! I always get the best deals there! it's incredible... they have everything!

Flame baiter... RTFT!
 

Metron

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2003
1,163
0
0
Originally posted by: Ornery
...a solution doesn't come up with how to solve the problem...

You have a "solution"? Anything to do with taxing, and regulating the crap out of businesses, till all is rosy Hillaryworld?

I hate to break it to you, but Hillary isn't in power. Neither is Bill. Your Hillaryworld comments are divisive and nothing but flamebait.

There are more than 2 viewpoints (ultra-conservative Republican and ultra-liberal Democrat) on any subject. An entire spectrum of perspectives on issues exist. I would contend that extremists of any stripe are the real danger... I fear radical fundamentalist Republicans as much as I fear radical fundamentalist Muslims.

Solution?... I suggest balance. The founding fathers put checks and balances into the constitution for a reason.

I used to be just like you Ornery, a rock-ribbed Reagan Republican who used to yell at bums on the street to get a job. I thought everybody who wasn't successful were just lazy, but I've learned that's not always true.

Even Congress is scrambling to distance themselves from the lobbyist scandal of Jack Abramoff. The Republican party is beginning to regret their "K Street Project" to fill DC lobbyist firms with Republicans. Because of K Street, Lobbyist = Republican. Lobbyist has become a really bad word in DC, and due to the transitive property of mathematics... LOL.

Look at the mess we're in as a nation. We have the largest federal debt in history; we're in two endless wars (the war on terror and the war in Iraq); we've ceded global trading power to the World Trade Organization; we have two major nations wanting to play with the "big boy" nuke toys (Korea and Iran); we're losing dominance in your beloved businesses left and right (steel, textiles, electronics, supercomputing, IT and now automobiles); we have a huge trade imbalance with China (thanks in large part to Walmart) and we have a healthcare system run by corrupt multi-national corporations.

If you try to learn from life, you get older, wiser, and a bit more cynical.

I don't have any direct answers, but I for one am not giving over control of my country to multi-national corporations and big businesses like Walmart without a fight. The Maryland legislature felt the same way. Given the recent judgements against the corrupt executives of Tyco, MCI Worldcom and Enron, I think other people are beginning to feel the same way.
 

Metron

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2003
1,163
0
0
I guess you took the Blue Pill.

I'm not arguing your facts... I'll grant you those. Look deeper though (read the earlier part of the thread, I don't have time to re-hash all of Walmart's evils right now).

Better yet... try reading here.
 

razor2025

Diamond Member
May 24, 2002
3,010
0
71
Originally posted by: JLGatsby

I suggest you open a dictionary.

Free market means "free" as in "freedom." It has nothing to do with "no cost."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market

transfers are not forcibly restricted or impeded

FREE as in FREEDOM, not "without cost."

Read about it.

To imply a free market is "without cost" implies that everyone holds the same value, which is the core belief held by communism. So you're saying a free market is really "communism"? I don't think so. You're tacking your own definition to "free market."

Free = freedom, not "without cost."

Wikipedia is not meant as a serious reference. If you're going to use something as reference to counter my post, please pick something else appropriate. Free-market does mean what it is. FREE. No cost in going in or out of the market. That means every player in the market can participate in the market without cost to enter or exit. Your mistaking it for something else. Free Market is NOT communism(which is also an ideal). Do you know why? Because it is a market.

How about I illustrate a simple example. Say I wanted to sell a toy. If I was in an ideal free-market, I can come into the marketplace with my toy and compete without any significant hinderance from anyone that's already in the market. That means all the pre-existing business in the market cannot prevent me from conducting my business or artificially make it unprofitable through strongarm tactics and such. I don't have to spend extra capital to offset potential attack from my soon-to-be competitors. As you can see, it's pretty much impossible to achieve this "free market". That's why it's an ideal. It is a good ideal, IMO.

Do you see now why Walmart is a perfect opposite of what ideal free-market business should be? You're always free to do whatever you wish in the world. However, "free" does mean "without cost" in economic sense. You're mixing up the meaning of "free" between economics and social-political meaning.

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Boy do you need to open a book.

An insider is an "officer" of a company. Meaning an employee with special status (CEO, COO, Sn Vice President, etc).

Directors (the board of directors) are also considered insiders.

Also beneficial owners (those who own more than 5%) are also considered insiders.

When you speak of "insiders" you're speaking of a very small group of people.

Ok, so what? It's pretty obvious that we all have a good grasp of what "insider" means. It's pretty obvious from the word itself isn't it? No need to argue this point anymore.

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

You really have rocks for brains.

OPEC holds a virtual monopoly on the world's oil supply and they often increase supply (for the purpose of lowering prices) because it hinders world economic growth. They openly say that they would rather lower oil prices to improve the economy than to increase prices because overall they make more money when the world economy is doing well.

When everyone else is doing well, they're doing well, and visa versa.

If they charged $30 bucks a gallon for gas, think of what that would do to the economy. It would destroy it. And if the economy is dead, how much gas do you think they're going to sell? Hardly none! It's in their advantage to lower prices and most all companies know this.

You seriously have NO idea what you're talking about. Rockefeller is a MONOPOLY. As in 1 supplier in the whole industry. Just 1. Not 2. Not 3. Is OPEC itself a supplier? No. but its members are. OPEC is just a organization of countries that exports petro. Nothing more. OPEC is a form of "collusion" (look it up) formed between a limited number of supplier (oligopoly). NOT a monopoly as you describe. In fact, OPEC is a funny paper tiger. They can have the potential to wield massive political power if they cooperated, but each member countries often cheat their partners. OPEC isn't the only problem with our shortage of petro. As far as monopoly's prices, anyone who has taken micro-economics should know that all rationale businesses want maximum profit (which means, marginal revenue = marginal cost). In case for a monopoly in the market, this is means that the price and supply are not set at social optimum. To put it simply, a monopoly, by nature, cannot create an highly efficient market. Isn't that what we all want? It doesn't matter if monopoly charges $30 or $3 for each gallon. It will charge a price they make the most profit, and that price creates "deadwieght loss".

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Necessity for survival? The human race made most of it's greatest advances without widespread healthcare.

You could argue that friendship and love and happiness are necessary for survial. Should we be buying people wives and iPods to make them happy?

All the sudden someone invents something and suddenly it becomes a "life necessity." Give me a break.

NOTE: bear with me, as I'm about to lose my patience.

Did you have a horrible history teacher? Human race made great advancements BECAUSE THEY ADVANCED WIDESPREAD HEALTHCARE. Do I have to drill this into your head? Do you know why Romans were so great? BECAUSE THEY MADE FLUSHABLE TOILETS and RUNNING SEWERS two thousands years ago. That, my friend, is a healthcare advance. Any societies that have very little advancements in healthcare has fallen into obscurity or complete destruction. Take the Incas/Aztecs for example. If they were advanced enough to treat the pox disease from Europeans, they would still be a fledgling society. Take for another example. The BLACK PLAGUE caused havoc because healthcare in those days could not deal with it. Sure, the plague died out once the number of human capable of being infected dropped too low for the plague to continue, but do you seriously want another massive pandemic to happen? You know what. Since you don't appreciate our healthcare advancement so much, why don't you do this. Next time you get an infection/sickness, don't seek a doctor. Don't use anti-biotics. Don't use ANY medicine. Don't use any dis-infectants. While you're at it, also don't use the toilet. Don't bathe. Cleanliness is also advancement in healthcare. I would add food restrictions, but that issue gets complicated. LMK when you get better, because I would applaud you for having such extraordinary survival skills. YOU most likely would've NEVER lived long enough to type in this thread if widespread healthcare did not exist.

I'm usually calm, but you obviously have ABSOLUTELY no idea what you're typing. I sincerely hope that you still have the oppurtunity to learn some of these basic knowledge.

Edited: Toned down some language, before mods nukes me.
 

JLGatsby

Banned
Sep 6, 2005
4,525
0
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To say that wikipedia shouldn't be taken seriously is to automatically admit defeat.

Free Market is FREEDOM. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH "FREE" (AS IN NO COST).

I majored in finance in college and I trade stocks and read economic literature. I am without a doubt 100% correct on this.

If you want another link, here: http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/FreeMarket.html

Free market = No market regulation. Ask a college professor.

Rothbard said exactly what wikipedia said.

How old are you anyway? You're very ignorant to the issue of economics.

And Rockefeller (Standard Oil) NEVER held a 100% monopoly. He held about 90%. Look it up.
 

razor2025

Diamond Member
May 24, 2002
3,010
0
71
Originally posted by: LtPage1
Originally posted by: Zalez
This could be the start of a retail empire crumbling to the ground

No it couldn't.

I don't think Walmart will crumble, even if MD's law gets widespread use. Walmart would most likely change some of its policies and find another way to squeeze out cost. Best way to counter corporate greed and mis-behvaior is by informing the consumer and workers. By knowing how much "cheap price" cost in reality, Walmart shoppers will realize they're not really saving money.
 

razor2025

Diamond Member
May 24, 2002
3,010
0
71
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
To say that wikipedia shouldn't be taken seriously is to automatically admit defeat.

Free Market is FREEDOM. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH "FREE" (AS IN NO COST).

I majored in finance in college and I trade stocks and read economic literature. I am without a doubt 100% correct on this.

If you want another link, here: http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/FreeMarket.html

Free market = No market regulation. Ask a college professor.

Rothbard said exactly what wikipedia said.

How old are you anyway? You're very ignorant to the issue of economics.

And Rockefeller (Standard Oil) NEVER held a 100% monopoly. He held about 90%. Look it up.


Are you seriously this DENSE? Do you even know what Wikipedia is? I can insert entry about Barney teaching kids homosexual things if I want to. Wikipedia is great for getting a general "feel" about a topic. It should NEVER be used as reliable source. If you EVER use Wikipedia as resource for any serious paper, you would've been MOCKED by everyone in my school.

This is just one reason why:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051211-5739.html

I never said anything about market regulation. You're digging up random things I didn't mention on my post in your futile attempt to refute my argument. You STILL don't recognize that "free market" is an impossible IDEAL. Even worse, your view of "free market" is no where close to what it means. You think that my definition of "free market" is "fair market", which is two COMPLETELY different things. On the article you've linked. The author has the definition of free market correctly.

The free market and the free price system make goods from around the world available to consumers. The free market also gives the largest possible scope to entrepreneurs, who risk capital to allocate resources so as to satisfy the future desires of the mass of consumers as efficiently as possible. Saving and investment can then develop capital goods and increase the productivity and wages of workers, thereby increasing their standard of living. The free competitive market also rewards and stimulates technological innovation that allows the innovator to get a head start in satisfying consumer wants in new and creative ways.

This is what an IDEAL free-market creates. Do we live in an ideal society? HECK NO. The article completely basis itself upon an impossible utopian world, where EVERYONE is at relatively same starting point. Is our world like that? No. Do you know what happens when Walmart becomes monopoly in distribution of goods? It will have ABSOLUTE dictatorship on distribution of goods. Walmart can and WILL dictate its own terms in any trade in the market. There is NO ALTERNATIVE.

But exchanges are not necessarily free. Many are coerced. If a robber threatens you with "Your money or your life," your payment to him is coerced and not voluntary, and he benefits at your expense. It is robbery, not free markets, that actually follows the mercantilist model: the robber benefits at the expense of the coerced. Exploitation occurs not in the free market, but where the coercer exploits his victim. In the long run, coercion is a negative-sum game that leads to reduced production, saving, and investment, a depleted stock of capital, and reduced productivity and living standards for all, perhaps even for the coercers themselves.

This is exactly what will happen. Any players in a free-market that grows powerful enough to gain power of coersion DESTROYS the "freedom" of other players. You cannot expect a market with skewed balance of power to become a "free-market". The stronger player WILL coerce the weaker. Coersion happens everywhere in our society. As the author of the article points out, if coersion happens, NO FREE MARKET. DOY, wasn't that what I've been arguing for? You know, expense = "cost", and I defined "free market" = without cost. Gah, how can you be this dense.



How old am I? Does it even matter? What does age have to do anything with credibility or having logical argument. I've asked this exact same topic with my Micro-Econ professor, who HAPPENS TO HAVE A PH.D from HARVARD on economics. What I've been posting is more-less the same idea he has taught me. Academic ideas and theories does not ALWAYS apply to the real-world. Just like how free-market is an impossible economic ideal that CANNOT work in the current world. This is THE VERY BASIC idea in economics. You are arguing that impossible ideal is possible in the REAL world.

Rockefeller ONLY had 90%? Are you kidding me. Do you know what MONOPOLY is? Here's a Wikipedia definition, since you actually think Wikipedia is credible source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly
In economics, a monopoly (from the Greek monos, one + polein, to sell) is defined as a persistent market situation where there is only one provider of a kind of product or service. Monopolies are characterized by a lack of economic competition for the good or service that they provide and a lack of viable substitute goods.

That's EXACTLY what Standard Oil became (you know Rockefeller's company). They were capable of strangling any threatening competition. 90% is essentially the whole market. How can you compete against 90% when you have 10%? I never said Standard Oil had 100% of the market. You DON"T need 100% to become a monopoly. As long as it dominates the market and there is no possible effective alternative, it IS a monopoly.
 
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