Md. forces Wal-Mart to spend more on health

[TheAdvocate]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Government health care for underbenefitted Wal Mart employees amounts to corporate welfare doesn't it?

Apparently not, or in the alternative, it's a good thing, cause otherwise Wal Mart wouldnt be able to employ anyone and these people would be out on the streets. Err...

Keep in mind that Costco does fine paying employees well and providing many more of them benefits.

Doh, ok strike the alternative too.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Metron
All other large companies provide sufficient health care coverage for their employees.

They're free to do that, but not obligated. Health insurance is part of an overall employment package. An employment package meant to lure qualified employees to work there. Apparantly Walmart isn't having any trouble attracting what they consider to be qualified employees (side note: their idea of qualified employees is vastly different from mine; one of the several reasons I don't shop there).

Why should the US taxpayers have to subsidize the healthcare benefits for a privately held corporation who just happens to be the largest retailer in the US?

Why should US taxpayers have to subsidize the healthcare benefits of anyone who is too unmotivated to do what it takes to get a decent job?

You, and Walmart's lobbyists (and maybe you are a Walmart lobbyist), would love to be rid your most favored corporations of those costs.

I hate Walmart. The only thing I buy there is Rain-X De-icer windshield washer fluid. I buy about 5 gallons at a time so I don't have to go into that hellhole any more than I have to. I can't find the stuff anywhere else around here.

The real fundamental issue here... is which party should be ultimately responsible for providing healthcare coverage?

How about the individual. Many companies offer it as a benefit of employment. If they didn't have the government to rely on, that benefit would make those companies a lot more attractive to employees. You don't have to have a white-collar job to get health insurance either. I've had a job that requires NO college degree, NO skills, paid 3x as much as Walmart, and provided free health insurance. Of course I had to work a lot harder than I would if I worked at Walmart.

 

[Metron]

Originally posted by: JEDI
"Md. forces Wal-Mart to spend more on health"

wtfbbq?

so why not force the mom + pop stores to gives health insurance also?!

TOTAL BS!

so is walmart moving out of MD?

Walmart pulls the same garbage in many states.....

TENNESSEE: 9,617 WAL-MART Workers on TennCare

"Wal-Mart, with about 25 percent of the company's 37,000 workers on TennCare, tops the list of businesses with employees on the expanded Medicaid program. Wal-Mart is the state's largest private employer."
Source: Associated Press, "Study Shows Thousands of Wal-Mart Employees on TennCare," WKRN-TV Nashville, January 20, 2005.

+++

Be sure to thank the managers for spending your tax dollars on employee health care...

 

[Metron]

I agree with you Mugs... people should stop working for them, people should stop shopping there, and more people should spread the word about their corporate practices.


Unfortunately, Walmart also begs for government subsidies in other areas. Do you realize that one of the largest corporations in the world begs your local government for tax abatements and preferrential status? For instance, the city of Dallas (read the local taxpayers) are giving Walmart $1 million dollars to build a new store in the Lake Highlands area. WTF?

Obviously, I don't like Walmart. I don't like the stores, I don't like their corporate morality, and I don't like the government wasting my tax dollars to support one of the biggest companies in the US.

 

[Metron]

Originally posted by: mugs
Why should US taxpayers have to subsidize the healthcare benefits of anyone who is too unmotivated to do what it takes to get a decent job?

There is another, larger problem here.... corporate greed.

Entire industries outsource jobs left and right, driven by the bottom line. US Steel industry... gone. US Textile industry... gone. US Auto industry... on it's way out. US General Manufacturing... almost gone. US IT workers... decimated, underpaid, and struggling. I could go on and on, but you get the idea.

Many people are chronically unemployed... leading to under-employment (taking a job at Walmart, for instance, to survive). I think Walmart kicks people that are already down, by not compensating them fairly. They are abusing their dominant position in the industry, and they threaten to alter the societal norms that have existed for almost a century (in terms of companies funding employee health care).

[Sarcasm] Soon, the US will be a nation of bankers and pharmaceutical sales reps... all other jobs will have been outsourced. [/Sarcasm]

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: hemiram
Eventually, Wal-Mart is going to have to pay decent wages and give benefits, or the unions will get in, and they will have to.

My dad went through it at his store many times and and my cousin has managed to keep the retail clerks union out for a total of 56 + years. It's not a huge place like a Wal-Mart, but if he can do it, and make money, Wal-Mart can too.

There are people working for my cousin that my dad hired over 33 years ago. Who would work at Wal-Mart for that long unless they were a big shot executive?

Wal-Mart is paying market wages.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Metron
Unfortunately, Walmart also begs for government subsidies in other areas. Do you realize that one of the largest corporations in the world begs your local government for tax abatements and preferrential status? For instance, the city of Dallas (read the local taxpayers) are giving Walmart $1 million dollars to build a new store in the Lake Highlands area. WTF?

Yes I know that, and I almost brought it up in this thread. If Walmart wants the government to stay out of their business and not dictate that they provide their employees with health insurance, then the government should not give Walmart the tax breaks they get.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Linflas
Wal-Mart should close every single business they have operating in the Peoples Republic of Maryland.

Good We'll be happy.

And you Virginians stay out too

Always riding off of our coat tails.

 

[DrPizza]

Mugs, I think you are overlooking some of the reason people are willing to accept jobs at Wal-Mart. They need the money, and they are stupid. When you have 2 kids to support and you can't find other jobs with benefits, you'll take what you can get, simply so you can pay your rent. They only look at the short term: wages, rather than the long term: health care.

As far the question: "are people entitled to proper health care", I would answer that YES, in the United States, there's no reason that everyone in our country shouldn't be given at least some level of appropriate health care. We're not a 3rd world country.

So, who pays for this? Either the companies you work for, or the government.
Now, in order for all the other retailers to compete with Wal-Marts prices, they're either going to all have to drop health care benefits. Don't like it? Quit.
Or, someone has to step in and try to level the playing field a little bit.

Lets assume all the retailers cease to provide health benefits to their employees. Do you feel that those 10's (100's?) of thousands of people are a new class of citizen that doesn't deserve health care? Do you think that we, as a society, should say "tough luck" when the 4 year old son of some retail employee contracts a severe case of the flu, and the parent is unable to afford appropriate care to keep the child alive? Do you blame the parent and say "well, they should have studied harder in high school, and gone to college, so they could have a good job like mine that pays health care"? Well, what will you say when your company realizes that it can compete better by discontinuing health care? Ahhh, you'll quit and go to the competitor. Well, sooner or later, your competitor is going to have to cut health care so it can compete.

Personally, I agree that employers shouldn't have to provide the health care... I'm all for socialized medicine as exists in many of the other industrialized nations. It's one of the reasons why (although most Americans don't believe this) the U.S. isn't the #1 country in the world for quality of life. Our whole system is screwed up here... it's not an easy problem to solve. But, this legislation does provide a small band-aid to keep the system functioning as it is.

Note: my employer provides excellent benefits... family insurance paid 100% no co-pays for the kids at the dr's office... , extra money to cover expenses such as co-pays, glasses, etc.
But, I believe that either all employers should provide insurance benefits (by law) OR, which would be simpler, the government should provide basic benefits for everyone (with perhaps, employers offering more advanced benefits)

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Metron

There is another, larger problem here.... corporate greed.

Entire industries outsource jobs left and right, driven by the bottom line. US Steel industry... gone. US Textile industry... gone. US Auto industry... on it's way out. US General Manufacturing... almost gone. US IT workers... decimated, underpaid, and struggling. I could go on and on, but you get the idea.

Many people are chronically unemployed... leading to under-employment (taking a job at Walmart, for instance, to survive). I think Walmart kicks people that are already down, by not compensating them fairly. They are abusing their dominant position in the industry, and they threaten to alter the societal norms that have existed for almost a century (in terms of companies funding employee health care).

[Sarcasm] Soon, the US will be a nation of bankers and pharmaceutical sales reps... all other jobs will have been outsourced. [/Sarcasm]

Yeah, that worries me too - outsourcing looks good short-term, but I worry that we're shooting ourselves in the feet long-term.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Originally posted by: mugs
the government should not give Walmart the tax breaks they get.

At least I agree with you on something.

But expecting to be able to employ a laborforce without spending any money on healthcare is like expecting to own a car and never get an oil change. It really is that simple.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Mugs, I think you are overlooking some of the reason people are willing to accept jobs at Wal-Mart. They need the money, and they are stupid. When you have 2 kids to support and you can't find other jobs with benefits, you'll take what you can get, simply so you can pay your rent. They only look at the short term: wages, rather than the long term: health care.

As far the question: "are people entitled to proper health care", I would answer that YES, in the United States, there's no reason that everyone in our country shouldn't be given at least some level of appropriate health care. We're not a 3rd world country.

I think that it should not be unconditional or unlimited, there must be an expectation that the recipient will attempt to get out of their situation or the recipient has no incentive to get a better job.

 

[Metron]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Personally, I agree that employers shouldn't have to provide the health care... I'm all for socialized medicine as exists in many of the other industrialized nations. It's one of the reasons why (although most Americans don't believe this) the U.S. isn't the #1 country in the world for quality of life. Our whole system is screwed up here... it's not an easy problem to solve. But, this legislation does provide a small band-aid to keep the system functioning as it is.

All sarcasm aside, I think we (US citizens) made a mistake when we blew off Bill and Hillary's health care reform back in the 90's. More and more, I tend to agree with DrPizza here. We should look at a nationalized health care system to bring the drug companies and health care firms under control. I would vote for socialized medicine in the US, because we're spinning out of control.

 

[tm37]

When did it become the employers job to provide health care?

 

[spidey07]

If somebody wants a job with healtcare benefits then get a job with healthcare.

Have a job without healthcare and too lazy to do something about it? Purchase healthcare.

But do NOT have governement regulations cutting profits and literally pulling a "let's rape walmart"

I really don't see how this is difficult to understand.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: spidey07
blah blah blah blah "let's rape walmart"

blah bleh bli blah

Agreed!

 

[Metron]

Originally posted by: tm37
When did it become the employers job to provide health care?

Don't study history much, eh? It's been a societal norm in the US for companies to provide health care benefits (as part of the employee's compensation package) for almost 100 years now. RTFT

 

[Metron]

Originally posted by: spidey07
If somebody wants a job with healtcare benefits then get a job with healthcare.

We're sorry sir, but your job has been outsourced to (Mexico, India, China, Poland, Russia...).

Originally posted by: spidey07
Have a job without healthcare and too lazy to do something about it? Purchase healthcare.

I'd love to, but my IT job was outsourced to India, and now I have to work at Walmart. My Walmart manager told me to sign up for MedicAid from the government, from whom Walmart also received $2 million to build this store.

Originally posted by: spidey07
But do NOT have governement regulations cutting profits and literally pulling a "let's rape walmart."

I really don't see how this is difficult to understand.

Socialize healthcare. Problem solved.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Amused
This is completely absurd, and will hopefully be shot down in the courts.

By an activist court maybe. The will of the people has been done and there are tones of similar laws at the federal level with delineations of numbers of employess vs benefits employers must provide. Under what const premise would this be shot down?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Metron

Originally posted by: spidey07
If somebody wants a job with healtcare benefits then get a job with healthcare.

We're sorry sir, but your job has been outsourced to (Mexico, India, China, Poland, Russia...).

Have a job without healthcare and too lazy to do something about it? Purchase healthcare.

I'd love to, but my IT job was outsourced to India, and now I have to work at Walmart.

But do NOT have governement regulations cutting profits and literally pulling a "let's rape walmart"

I really don't see how this is difficult to understand.

Socialize healthcare. Problem solved.

Last I checked this is america. We are free to choose our own destiny and career path just as much as we are free to change it. Plus unemployment insurance and COBRA already cover the scenarios you described.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: tm37
When did it become the employers job to provide health care?

Since the voters decided that's what they wanted? For nearly 50 years federal and state mandates have required that a specific package of benefits be covered depening on circumstance. Hrs workerd, number of employees etc...

 

[Vic]

As always, the socialist side of the argument is presented with a complete ignorance of basic economics and a total blindness to political corruption.

 

[Proletariat]

Has anyone read about Walmart?

 

[mugs]

Regarding socialized healthcare - what country produces the most advances in the healthcare industry, develops the most critical prescription drugs, etc?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: mugs
Regarding socialized healthcare - what country produces the most advances in the healthcare industry, develops the most critical prescription drugs, etc?

I'd say Switzerland per capita. Small nation has some giants like Ciba, Roche etc USA as a whole of course. Both countries don't practice socialized medicine. Well we do actually but it's just not characterized that way.