Md. forces Wal-Mart to spend more on health

[Metron]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Metron

Originally posted by: spidey07
If somebody wants a job with healtcare benefits then get a job with healthcare.

We're sorry sir, but your job has been outsourced to (Mexico, India, China, Poland, Russia...).

Originally posted by: spidey07
Have a job without healthcare and too lazy to do something about it? Purchase healthcare.

I'd love to, but my IT job was outsourced to India, and now I have to work at Walmart. My Walmart manager told me to sign up for MedicAid from the government, from whom Walmart also received $2 million to build this store.

Last I checked this is america. We are free to choose our own destiny and career path just as much as we are free to change it. Plus unemployment insurance and COBRA already cover the scenarios you described.

Yes, and as companies exert more and more pressure on workers by increasing uncompensated overtime and by decreasing benefits and merit increases that don't keep up with inflation while increasing top executive compensation packages, I think more and more people will look for alternatives... like socialized medicine. As I said previously, I would vote for that alternative. Given time, enough people may think that way also.

 

[Metron]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Has anyone read about Walmart?

Try Reading This About Walmart...

 

[Vic]

Don't like it, don't shop there. I don't.

How many of those employees and their children would have employer-provided healthcare if they had no job at all? How many of Wal-Mart's competitors provide quality healthcare?

The fight against Wal-Mart IMO is part of the affluent left's secret fight against the poor. They look down at where the poor work and shop. "Why don't those stupid poor shop at Costco?" they ask each other over lattes.

 

[Metron]

Originally posted by: Vic
Don't like it, don't shop there. I don't.

How many of those employees and their children would have employer-provided healthcare if they had no job at all? How many of Wal-Mart's competitors provide quality healthcare?

The fight against Wal-Mart IMO is part of the affluent left's secret fight against the poor. They look down at where the poor work and shop. "Why don't those stupid poor shop at Costco?" they ask each other over lattes.

Don't try to turn this into a class war... you're way off here.

It's not really about Walmart... it's about health care costs. Socialize health care!

Oh, and how many competitors in Maryland provide the healthcare coverage you ask? All of them, except Walmart... that's why they are the only company affected by the legislation. RTFT

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: mugs
Regarding socialized healthcare - what country produces the most advances in the healthcare industry, develops the most critical prescription drugs, etc?

I'd say Switzerland per capita. Small nation has some giants like Ciba, Roche etc USA as a whole of course. Both countries don't practice socialized medicine. Well we do actually but it's just not characterized that way.

Hmmmm.... I wonder what the average lifespan in the world would be today if those damn greedy bastard pharmaceutical companies weren't able to rape us so thoroughly. :|

Just a thought.

 

[Metron]

[Sarcasm]
Yeah... that's the ticket. Let's all live even longer, and create more of a Social Security crisis! :shocked:
[/Sarcasm]

Drug companies aren't in business to extend people's lives, they are run by MBA roaches to make more money. That's why you see companies making expensive hip replacements, not new anti-biotics and anti-viral drugs (like TamiFlu).

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Metron

Originally posted by: Vic
Don't like it, don't shop there. I don't.

How many of those employees and their children would have employer-provided healthcare if they had no job at all? How many of Wal-Mart's competitors provide quality healthcare?

The fight against Wal-Mart IMO is part of the affluent left's secret fight against the poor. They look down at where the poor work and shop. "Why don't those stupid poor shop at Costco?" they ask each other over lattes.

Don't try to turn this into a class war... you're way off here.

It's not really about Walmart... it's about health care costs. Socialize health care!

Oh, and how many competitors in Maryland provide the healthcare coverage you ask? All of them, except Walmart... that's why they are the only company affected by the legislation. RTFT

Not true. Walmart is the only effected because the kick in is at 10,000 employees - they are the only retailer to have 10,000

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Metron
Don't try to turn this into a class war... you're way off here.

It's not really about Walmart... it's about health care costs. Socialize health care!

Oh, and how many competitors in Maryland provide the healthcare coverage you ask? All of them, except Walmart... that's why they are the only company affected by the legislation.

No, this is a class war. It's the union left versus anything non-union. Unions, which have long had a great deal of power in government, are slowly dying, and these little bits of corruption are their death throes.

Health care costs will dramatically increase under socialized health care. Think about it for just one moment. What other industries in the US are completely socialized and what are those industries' reputations for controlling costs? The military ($600 toilet seats), the postal service (didn't the postage rate just go up again?), highway departments (how many tens of millions per mile?), etc. There is an economic law as to why this happens, known as the economic calculation problem. It states that prices cannot be calculated without a marketplace. This is why socialized anything always fails economically.

To your last paragraph:

The Maryland bill would force firms with more than 10,000 in-state employees to spend at least 8 percent of their payrolls on workers' health insurance plans or make compensatory payments to the state. Only three other Maryland employers have more than 10,000 workers on their payrolls -- Johns Hopkins University, Northrop Grumman Corp. and Giant Food Inc. -- and they already meet or exceed the 8 percent threshold. Apparently, only Wal-Mart, with about 15,000 full- and part-time employees in Maryland, does not; thus the bill applies uniquely to Wal-Mart.

I was unaware that Wal-Mart was in competition with hospitals and defense contractors. :roll:
And Giant Food is unionized, which highlights what this battle is really all about. You would see that if you got down off your little ideology.

 

[Rudee]

Wallmart is akin to a sweatshop.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Metron

Originally posted by: Vic
Don't like it, don't shop there. I don't.

How many of those employees and their children would have employer-provided healthcare if they had no job at all? How many of Wal-Mart's competitors provide quality healthcare?

The fight against Wal-Mart IMO is part of the affluent left's secret fight against the poor. They look down at where the poor work and shop. "Why don't those stupid poor shop at Costco?" they ask each other over lattes.

Don't try to turn this into a class war... you're way off here.

It's not really about Walmart... it's about health care costs. Socialize health care!

Oh, and how many competitors in Maryland provide the healthcare coverage you ask? All of them, except Walmart... that's why they are the only company affected by the legislation. RTFT

Not true. Walmart is the only effected because the kick in is at 10,000 employees - they are the only retailer to have 10,000

They are NOT the only business to have 10k+ employees there. They are the only 10k+ employer to not meet that low standard.

 

[Metron]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Not true. Walmart is the only effected because the kick in is at 10,000 employees - they are the only retailer to have 10,000

WRONG!

Plus, RTFT! Quesy already conceded the error with his same contention earlier in the thread.... move along!

Originally posted by: Queasy

My mistake. They are the only ones that employee over 10,000 people and fall below the threshold set by the Maryland legislator. Link

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Maryland bill would force firms with more than 10,000 in-state employees to spend at least 8 percent of their payrolls on workers' health insurance plans or make compensatory payments to the state. Only three other Maryland employers have more than 10,000 workers on their payrolls -- Johns Hopkins University, Northrop Grumman Corp. and Giant Food Inc. -- and they already meet or exceed the 8 percent threshold. Apparently, only Wal-Mart, with about 15,000 full- and part-time employees in Maryland, does not; thus the bill applies uniquely to Wal-Mart.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Somehow, Giant Food Inc. has no problem meeting the very same requirement.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Metron

Originally posted by: Zebo
Not true. Walmart is the only effected because the kick in is at 10,000 employees - they are the only retailer to have 10,000

WRONG!

Plus, RTFT! Quesy already conceded the error with his same contention earlier in the thread.... move along!

Originally posted by: Queasy

My mistake. They are the only ones that employee over 10,000 people and fall below the threshold set by the Maryland legislator. Link

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Maryland bill would force firms with more than 10,000 in-state employees to spend at least 8 percent of their payrolls on workers' health insurance plans or make compensatory payments to the state. Only three other Maryland employers have more than 10,000 workers on their payrolls -- Johns Hopkins University, Northrop Grumman Corp. and Giant Food Inc. -- and they already meet or exceed the 8 percent threshold. Apparently, only Wal-Mart, with about 15,000 full- and part-time employees in Maryland, does not; thus the bill applies uniquely to Wal-Mart.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Somehow, Giant Food Inc. has no problem meeting the very same requirement.

It's you who is wrong I specifically said retailer. Not to mention you implied that other small retailers , wal-mart's competitors, provide HC benefits for thier employees which they don't either.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Not true. Walmart is the only effected because the kick in is at 10,000 employees - they are the only retailer to have 10,000

Someone posted earlier in the thread that there are three other companies in Maryland that have more than 10,000 employees, they're just not affected because they already meet the law's requirements. They are Johns Hopkins University, Northrop Grumman and Giant Foods (another retailer)

Edit: beaten to it.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Zebo
It's you who is wrong I specifically said retailer. Not to mention you implied that other small retailers , wal-mart's competitors, provide HC benefits for thier employees which they don't either.

The law doesn't apply only to retailers, so limiting your assertion to retailers is baseless. Regardless, Giant Foods is a retailer.

 

[Metron]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Metron
Somehow, Giant Food Inc. has no problem meeting the very same requirement.

It's you who is wrong I specifically said retailer. Not to mention you implied that other small retailers , wal-mart's competitors, provide HC benefits for thier employees which they don't either.

I'll revert then to my previous post earlier in the thread... reposted here, since people don't RTFT:

And gee... let's see, Walmart is the largest retailer in the United States. They can afford to compensate their employees fairly with a salary and package of benefits. Instead, they are trying to have the government (read the US taxpayers) subsidize their healthcare costs.

Why should the US taxpayers have to subsidize the healthcare benefits for a privately held corporation who just happens to be the largest retailer in the US?

If that's your argument, you might as well jump on the bandwagon of socialized medicine (like Canada and other countries), nationalize healthcare, and have the government totally responsible for providing healthcare for all US citizens. If you follow the logic of your argument, that is the ultimate conclusion.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Zebo
It's you who is wrong I specifically said retailer. Not to mention you implied that other small retailers , wal-mart's competitors, provide HC benefits for thier employees which they don't either.

The law doesn't apply only to retailers, so limiting your assertion to retailers is baseless. Regardless, Giant Foods is a retailer.

Not really they don't even sell same products as walmart. That's a grocery store chain. Competitors to walmart would be department stores like sears and K-mart. Wal-mart will be only retailer effected by this law.

 

[Metron]

You also missed my link above:

Maryland's Largest Private Employers - First Quarter, 2004


Employer Product or Service
Adventist Health Care Healthcare services
Bank of America Commercial banking
Baltimore Gas & Electric Gas and electric utility
Blue Cross of Maryland Healthcare services
Chevy Chase Bank Commercial banking
Comcast Cablevision Communications services
Computer Sciences Corporation Information technology
Dimensions Health Healthcare services
Food Lion Retail grocer
General Mills Restaurants Restaurants
Giant of Maryland Retail grocer
Greater Baltimore Medical Center Hospital; health services
Heartland Employment Services Personnel services
Helix Health System Healthcare services
Holy Cross Hospital Hospital; health services
Home Depot Retailer; home products
IBM Corporation Information technology
Integrated Employment Group Personnel services
J.C. Penney Retailer; department stores
Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab R&D systems engineering
Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center Hospital; health services
Johns Hopkins Hospital Hospital; health services
Johns Hopkins University Higher education
K-Mart Retailer; department stores
Kaiser Foundation Health Plan Healthcare services
Lockheed Martin Aerospace & communications
Lowe's Home Centers Retailer; home products
M&T Bank Commercial banking
Marriott International Food and lodging services
May Department Stores Retailer; department stores
McDonalds Restaurants Restaurants
Northrop Grumman Electronics
Rite Aid Retailer
Safeway Stores Retail grocer
Science Applications International (SAIC) Information technology
Sears Roebuck Retailer; department stores
Shoppers Food Warehouse Retail grocer
Sinai Hospital Hospital; health services
Southwest Airlines Airline
St. Agnes Healthcare Hospital; health services
Super Fresh Food Markets Retail grocer
T. Rowe Price Associates Financial services
Target Stores Retailer; department stores
UHC Management Healthcare services
University of Maryland Medical System Hospital; health services
United Parcel Service Courier services
Verizon Maryland Telecommunications services
Verizon Services Corporation Telecommunications services
Wal-Mart Associates Retailer; department stores
Wendy's Old Fashioned Hamburgers Restaurants
Westat Research Statistical survey research

Source: Maryland Department of Labor, Licensing and Regulation, Office of Labor Market Analysis and Information, and the Maryland Department of Business and Economic Development, 2004.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Metron
Don't try to turn this into a class war... you're way off here.

It's not really about Walmart... it's about health care costs. Socialize health care!

Oh, and how many competitors in Maryland provide the healthcare coverage you ask? All of them, except Walmart... that's why they are the only company affected by the legislation.

No, this is a class war. It's the union left versus anything non-union. Unions, which have long had a great deal of power in government, are slowly dying, and these little bits of corruption are their death throes.

Health care costs will dramatically increase under socialized health care. Think about it for just one moment. What other industries in the US are completely socialized and what are those industries' reputations for controlling costs? The military ($600 toilet seats), the postal service (didn't the postage rate just go up again?), highway departments (how many tens of millions per mile?), etc. There is an economic law as to why this happens, known as the economic calculation problem. It states that prices cannot be calculated without a marketplace. This is why socialized anything always fails economically.

To your last paragraph:

The Maryland bill would force firms with more than 10,000 in-state employees to spend at least 8 percent of their payrolls on workers' health insurance plans or make compensatory payments to the state. Only three other Maryland employers have more than 10,000 workers on their payrolls -- Johns Hopkins University, Northrop Grumman Corp. and Giant Food Inc. -- and they already meet or exceed the 8 percent threshold. Apparently, only Wal-Mart, with about 15,000 full- and part-time employees in Maryland, does not; thus the bill applies uniquely to Wal-Mart.

I was unaware that Wal-Mart was in competition with hospitals and defense contractors. :roll:
And Giant Food is unionized, which highlights what this battle is really all about. You would see that if you got down off your little ideology.

It seems to work in mainland Europe and Nordic countries very well?

 

[TheAdvocate]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Not really they don't even sell same products as walmart. That's a grocery store chain. Competitors to walmart would be department stores like sears and K-mart. Wal-mart will be only retailer effected by this law.

wow. why are you arguing this? what's the point?

BTW - Giant foods is a RETAIL grocer, not a wholesaler, supplier or distributor. Retail=sells to end user. Doesnt matter what the product is.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Metron

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Metron
Somehow, Giant Food Inc. has no problem meeting the very same requirement.

It's you who is wrong I specifically said retailer. Not to mention you implied that other small retailers , wal-mart's competitors, provide HC benefits for thier employees which they don't either.

I'll revert then to my previous post earlier in the thread... reposted here, since people don't RTFT:

And gee... let's see, Walmart is the largest retailer in the United States. They can afford to compensate their employees fairly with a salary and package of benefits. Instead, they are trying to have the government (read the US taxpayers) subsidize their healthcare costs.

Why should the US taxpayers have to subsidize the healthcare benefits for a privately held corporation who just happens to be the largest retailer in the US?

If that's your argument, you might as well jump on the bandwagon of socialized medicine (like Canada and other countries), nationalize healthcare, and have the government totally responsible for providing healthcare for all US citizens. If you follow the logic of your argument, that is the ultimate conclusion.

If you eliminated medicare no subsidy would take place right and thus tax payers would be free of thier obligations. Bet you never followed that "logical conclusion" have you?

As far as UHC i'm undecided. Seems cheaper per capita for euro countries but they don't have a large population of sloth either. America compared to say Sweden has a I'm gonna get mine attitude which would probably break the system.

Incidently - the muslims and amnesty seekers rolling into europe will break thiers too eventually.

 

[Metron]

Originally posted by: Zebo
If you eliminated medicare no subsidy would take place right and thus tax payers would be free of thier obligations. Bet you never followed that "logical conclusion" have you?

That's a interesting argument, but that's not the status quo. Try again.

(it really helps if you can Read The F***ing Thread)

 

[TheAdvocate]

Originally posted by: Zebo

If you eliminated medicare no subsidy would take place right and thus tax payers would be free of thier obligations. Bet you never followed that "logical conclusion" have you?

I cant wait to see what a nation whose blue collar backbone is uninsured, and therefore has no real access to basic healthcare looks like. I'm thinking provincial europe, during the dark ages. Plague, famine, all that. Should rock. Bring it on. As long as I have a stack of gold to sit on, I fear nothing. NOTHING.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
It seems to work in mainland Europe and Nordic countries very well?

Those countries are not socialist. They are heavily mixed economies.
Very well is not a description I would use. All of those nations have staggering burdens of taxation, debt, and unemployment. In those that allow immigration of ethnic minorities, there is brutal class warfare due to lack of opportunity.

 

[Metron]

Yes, and he probably missed this comment of mine:

Yes, and as companies exert more and more pressure on workers by increasing uncompensated overtime and by decreasing benefits and merit increases that don't keep up with inflation while increasing top executive compensation packages...

Just add to that Zebo's hypothesis that companies could eliminate unemployment insurance and the 8% of payroll that they pay for Social Security! Just think of the corporate profits... the beautiful consolidated balance sheets.

Quit giving the corporate lobbyists ideas!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate

Originally posted by: Zebo
If you eliminated medicare no subsidy would take place right and thus tax payers would be free of thier obligations. Bet you never followed that "logical conclusion" have you?

I cant wait to see what a nation whose blue collar backbone is uninsured, and therefore has no real access to basic healthcare looks like. I'm thinking provincial europe, during the dark ages. Plague, famine, all that. Should rock. Bring it on. As long as I have a stack of gold to sit on, I fear nothing. NOTHING.

Heh. You are amusing. Not dark ages. Not even. Who was accusing people of using straw men arguments just a little bit back? Think your grandfather's day. That's how old "basic healthcare" is. The entire healthcare industry as we know it today was created during WWII.