Meanwhile in Venezuela

[dmcowen674]

No substance, more trolling, you're just another fat, stupid douche. Find something constructive to do with your life. :\

I get under your America hating skin so I am do something extremely constructive apparently. :thumbsup:

 

[Matt1970]

I get under your America hating skin so I am do something extremely constructive apparently. :thumbsup:

You are the one trying to tear America down and rebuild it. Venezuela awaits you.....

 

[Northern Lawn]

This is just giberish. These people have to learn to write their signs in English if they want to be taken seriously.

 

[AViking]

This is just giberish. These people have to learn to write their signs in English if they want to be taken seriously.

What kind of horrible Canadian are you!?

French too!

 

[dmcowen674]

You are the one trying to tear America down and rebuild it. Venezuela awaits you.....

There is no trying necessary.

History always repeats itself. Always.

Just like gravity always wins.

 

[AViking]

I am glad you can see that but the vast majority of Americans are not living in squalor and have no desire to give up their lifestyles so a bunch of spoiled brats can try and take what they think is rightfully theirs.

Well what you're going to find is that Americans are going to quickly realize that they're behind the rest of the first world. I don't think we need to be living in townships or favela to get pissed off. Americans get the short end of the stick compared to the rest of the first world.

The lazy can't run the roost, I agree, but when the US has vast segments of their population that are uneducated, have no future, and are in debt there will be hell to pay eventually. Our country was great when we had a strong middle class and right now we don't have that.

USA's middle class is shrinking. I think we're ranked #30 in the world. It's not pretty. We raise our kids to believe in the American Dream but it's not going to be so funny when it really is a dream.

 

[Mai72]

We are ranked #27 in the world in regard to our middle class ranking. I expect to see us between #30-40 in another 5 years.

We are shrinking at an alarming rate. Whenever people ask me why am I working overseas I tell them the truth. America isn't that great of a country anymore. Our education and health care stink. It has become a very difficult place to start a family. People just don't get it.

 

[boomerang]

Well what you're going to find is that Americans are going to quickly realize that they're behind the rest of the first world. I don't think we need to be living in townships or favela to get pissed off. Americans get the short end of the stick compared to the rest of the first world.

The lazy can't run the roost, I agree, but when the US has vast segments of their population that are uneducated, have no future, and are in debt there will be hell to pay eventually. Our country was great when we had a strong middle class and right now we don't have that.

USA's middle class is shrinking. I think we're ranked #30 in the world. It's not pretty. We raise our kids to believe in the American Dream but it's not going to be so funny when it really is a dream.

Talk is cheap so with that in mind, what's your solution?

 

[Mai72]

No solution. Just remember to bow to your masters.

 

[Exterous]

Thomas Jefferson knew of the dangers that could appear when BIG government rules over the American landscape.

He also fought against some of the policies that ended up building America into a world class power. Not saying he wasn't a great figure in American history just something to keep in mind

 

[AViking]

Talk is cheap so with that in mind, what's your solution?

I'll be honest. A perfect solution? I don't know. I'm living in Sweden now and will be moving to another country next year. I'm hoping that some more foreign experience will give me some inspiration that I might be able to bring home to the states. Until then though I do have to kinda look out for my family and that means having a higher standard of living overseas.

Potential ideas though?

1. People need to stop accepting jobs with no benefits. This one needs to happen regardless of anything else. I can't even begin to describe how much higher the standard of living is when you get lots of benefits. I'm so sick and tired of seeing friends and family post on facebook about how sad they are to have to return back to work so shortly after giving birth or how they wonder how I can travel so much. It's not rocket science. Get a job that provides benefits and that means everyone insisting on benefits or the government mandating them. Either way it needs to happen. Who's going to pay for it? Pretty simple really. The owner of your company is. He's going to have to take pay cut so that 15 people can get some damn benefits. If he can't make enough money then the business he's running is not viable. He's free to move to Bangladesh and run a sweatshop but we can't have that here.

2. Basic quality of life necessities can't all be for big profit. I'm really talking about education and healthcare here. I didn't finish my education that long ago but costs have doubled since then. The grants I got are not available any longer due the principle on the accounts getting hammered during the 2008 meltdown. Along with this though we need to stop allowing people to take out student loans or getting any kind of economic assistance for educations that cannot land you a job. We also need to do a massive restructuring of our basic education. Stupid teachers need to go and salaries need to be increased to bring in intelligent and motivated educators.

3. People in the government need to be held accountable for their actions. So it wasn't illegal what they did. Ok they get away with it again. Fuck. However going ahead and then hiring them into a top level government job is bullshit and needs to stop. You can't put them in prison so you give them a job in the cabinet? Get the fuck out of here!

4. Talk radio needs to be dealt with. Americans are becoming hugely ignorant and polarized. Discussions are not so much discussions but mere parroting of talking points from their favorite talk radio host. They are often simply spouting out propaganda for one polarized side of the political spectrum. I'm for freedom of speech but somehow this does need to be dealt with. I would suggest that people not purchase anything from people who advertise on any of these shows/stations.

5. History needs to stop repeating itself. Ignorance at its finest again but lets look at Afghanistan. Why did the US think they could invade and nation build here? How many others have tried and failed. This was a complete lack of knowledge about their history, culture, geography, family life, religion, economy, or anything else. We should have gone in, bombed the shit out of the Taliban, killed Osama at Tora Bora, and gone home. There was nothing else for us to do there. Huge waste of treasure and blood. We need to stop voting for ignorant politicians and we need to protest when they suggest spending that long and that much money on a fools errand. It's not unpatriotic.

6. People need to vote. They need to vote intelligently. They need to be told that there are more than two political parties. Not much else needs to be said here but choosing between a turd sandwich and a giant douche is not working for us.

7. Americans need to stop with the American Dream. It's dead and it's giving the younger generation a false sense of security. At least in CA most people did not live the "American Dream". Yeah they might have been successful and made $100,000 a year if you were awesome but the money they made was from explosive real estate prices. I'm not talking about the bubble. I'm saying that if you're a baby boomer you might have bought your first house in CA for $50,000 and sold it for $130,000. Then $270,000, $500,000, $750,000, $1,500,000. So over the course of a baby boomers life they made $1,500,000 basically on real estate just by living in the state and watching it prosper. Today though people are not going to benefit from that. Worse yet if you make $100,000 today it's a small fraction of the purchasing power that a baby boomer had on the same salary. I'm generation X and I rode on the coat tails of the baby boomer generation and did quite well for myself. I have no illusions though that the younger generations are in for a world of hurt unless we get our act together.

People need to get with reality and change things for the better.

 

[AViking]

Met an old lady who lived on the beach. I can't remember if it was Hermosa or Manhatten but her house stood out like a sore thumb since she was old and had not remodeled it. I was talking to her and she moved there in the 1940's before the war. Her husband bought beach front property when it was ugly and mostly just oil wells everywhere. Her house was worth $4,500,000 when I talked to her. They might have paid $15,000 or $25,000 for it.

Have a friend who's grandfather did the same thing but bought 14 pieces of property during the war in San Diego. He was old enough to be able to afford it, so technically not a baby boomer, but figured it would be a good investment for the future. It's not all beach front but nothing is worth less than $1,500,000. His baby boomer kids inherited it and made out quite well.

My parents are baby boomers. Now if they were smart and kept all the property they had invested in they would be worth an extra $20,000,000 but they sold some because they had no idea that something as simple as a town house in Foster City could break a million dollars. Blows their mind.

During the housing boom of the 1990's and 2000's they asked Californians if they thought that housing prices would rise 20% a year for the next 10 years. An overwhelming percent said yes. If you do the math on that they were saying that the average $500,000 home in a nice area would be worth over $3,000,000.

People lost sight of reality simply because a generation did well. Those who were working in the 1940's and 1950's made out like bandits. Generation held on to their coat tails but those born in the 80's or later it's a bit different. Especially the 90's and beyond.

 

[senseamp]

Who are you trying to kid here? Venezuela is the poster child for the liberal wet dream. You are seeing what total government control over an economy does here.

And how did that come about? Chavez didn't win in a vacuum. The preceding government allowed poverty and income inequality to get out of control, so that most people weren't vested in the capitalist system anymore. Republicans are following in same footsteps in the US, expecting a different result.

 

[MagickMan]

I get under your America hating skin so I am do something extremely constructive apparently. :thumbsup:

"Under my skin"? Nope, I forget you after I've replied to one of your intellectually lazy posts. Your life is meaningless to you and to everyone around you, so you have nothing to do with "America" nor what it stands for.

 

[MagickMan]

And how did that come about?

He bought the army with oil money then installed himself as Leftist dictator.

 

[Matt1970]

Well what you're going to find is that Americans are going to quickly realize that they're behind the rest of the first world. I don't think we need to be living in townships or favela to get pissed off. Americans get the short end of the stick compared to the rest of the first world.

The lazy can't run the roost, I agree, but when the US has vast segments of their population that are uneducated, have no future, and are in debt there will be hell to pay eventually. Our country was great when we had a strong middle class and right now we don't have that.

USA's middle class is shrinking. I think we're ranked #30 in the world. It's not pretty. We raise our kids to believe in the American Dream but it's not going to be so funny when it really is a dream.

Tell ya what, I will take the short end of the stick in America any day. Our immigration problem and lack of people flocking to other countries suggests a lot of other people would too.

 

[Matt1970]

And how did that come about? Chavez didn't win in a vacuum. The preceding government allowed poverty and income inequality to get out of control, so that most people weren't vested in the capitalist system anymore. Republicans are following in same footsteps in the US, expecting a different result.

And then Chavez took over and forced poverty and income inequality.

 

[senseamp]

He bought the army with oil money then installed himself as Leftist dictator.

Nope, he got himself elected with populist appeals to lower and middle classes.

 

[Matt1970]

I think it's funny as hell the people in here using people revolting against too much government regulation and control as an example why the US needs more government regulation and control.

 

[senseamp]

I think it's funny as hell the people in here using people revolting against too much government regulation and control as an example why the US needs more government regulation and control.

It's an example of what happens if you don't find a stable politically sustainable mix of capitalism and socialism, and instead bounce between one extreme and the other. If inequality keeps rising unchecked, capitalism will lose political support, and you will end up over-correcting. During the cold war, US business knew that very well, that if they overdid it, they would end up losing everything. So they made damn sure to have enough socialism blended in that there would be at least a majority of population that was happy with the capitalist system. Now they have forgotten those lessons, but they will be taught them one way or another. I think it's better for everyone if they learn them voluntarily.

 

[AViking]

Tell ya what, I will take the short end of the stick in America any day. Our immigration problem and lack of people flocking to other countries suggests a lot of other people would too.

Although the US does not record emigration statistics I can assure you that lots of Americans are flocking to other countries. There were more Mexicans leaving the country than coming to the US during the peak of the 2008 economic collapse. There are so many Americans going to England right now that the embassy has a super long waiting list.

All in all though I find your argument to be very poor since most people do not leave the US due to them having family there and it being a pretty big step. I don't blame them. It's very difficult for most people to just leave everything behind so that they can get an improved standard of living that they don't even understand. It's even doubly more difficult for Americans to leave America when most have never seen another country let alone lived in one for a short period of time. It makes almost no sense to just get up and leave the US unless you've at least had a trial run. Maybe a short term work transfer, semester abroad, post doc, or something.

I have a family member who likes to use this argument and it's relatively absurd in my opinion since the US is picking up immigrants from 3rd world countries. I'm not advocating the reverse of that. I'm saying that it makes a lot of sense to leave the US, at least for a part of your life, to live in a better FIRST world country. Half of our immigration is from Latin America. Another 25% is from Asia/India. The other 25% is made up of everything else and accounts for about 10,000,000 people. So to summarize 75% of our immigration is from the 3rd world (besides South Korea) and 25% I can't figure out but is definitely not all from the first world. I can see that since by region Europe is only sending about 8% and Africa is sending about 10% so there's 18% of the 25% I can't figure out. Maybe the balance is Canadians marrying Americans.

 

[Tango]

And then Chavez took over and forced poverty and income inequality.

This is not correct.

Venezuelans’ quality of life improved at the third-fastest pace worldwide and income inequality narrowed during the presidency of Hugo Chavez, who tapped the world’s biggest oil reserves to aid the poor.

Venezuela moved up seven spots to 73 out of 187 countries in the United Nation’s index of human development from 2006 to 2011, a period that covers the latter half of Chavez’s rule, which ended with his death March 5. That progress trails only Cuba and Hong Kong in the index, which is based on life expectancy, health and education levels.

[...]

Venezuela cut its poverty rate to 29.5 percent in 2011 from 48.6 percent in 2002, according to the United Nations Economic Commission for Latin America, known as CEPAL. Venezuelans gave a life satisfaction rating of 7.5 on a scale from 1-10, above the global average of 5.5, according to a 2012 index of global prosperity compiled by Legatum Institute, a London-based research organization.

Chavez had extremely strong support from the people because his objectives were shared by many. Poverty and income inequality were horrendous in Venezuela, and any attempt to reduce them was understandably well received.

The problem is he used unsustainable policies and created a corrupt political structure whose objective was mainly to consolidate his power. Now this is violently backfiring, as anybody familiar with the macroeconomic context of Venezuela would have expected.

But objectives, policies and policy implementation are three separate dimensions, each to be assessed independently.

I have no sympathy for Chavez and even less for Maduro. But this does not prevent me from understanding the reasons why Venezuelan people supported him.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I can tell than none of those who have posted in this thread has ever set foot in Venezuela. All the people I worked with down there voted for Chavez not because they liked him or wanted him to be re-elected. They voted for him due to seeing what happened to the colleagues or coworkers that voted for the opposition. Anyone that worked for any government entity or any company that supported the entity that voted for the opposition was blackballed.

I worked with an engineering firm in Saudi Arabia that was completely made up of Venezuelan exiles who had been blackballed for voting for the opposition. They were only allowed by the government to return home for 2 weeks a year and were harassed every time they came home. Their families that continued to live in Venezuela were treated badly by the local government in the city or town where they lived.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Other nation's youth; take to the streets and protest

America's youth; bitch about Starbucks dropping the cinnamon dolce latte from their menu, on Twitter and getting UBER pissed that Starbucks didn't reach out to them to offer a free coffee.