Medfield phones look promising

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cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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Good to know, the merry-go-round regarding mobility linux distributions Intel has been involved with (Meego and crew) makes me think they haven't quite focused in on a solid plan yet.

I've been thinking Intel will try and go vertically integrated for Android apps. Maybe with higher security than the regular Android app store?

http://www.dailytech.com/McAfee+Rep...+in+Q3+2011+Aimed+at+Android/article23336.htm

Gadgets McAfee Report Claims Virtually All Mobile Malware in Q3 2011 Aimed at Android
Shane McGlaun (Blog) - November 21, 2011 12:45 PM

Android users beware

McAfee has issued a new report that looks at mobile malware threats for Q3 2011. According go the security firm, nearly all new mobile malware for the quarter was targeted at Android.

That is no surprise considering that Android allows for third-party app stores and doesn't check the apps on the main store to the extent that Apple checks its apps on the App Store. Android OS is also the most popular mobile operating system for smartphones, so it’s an easy target.

The company found that malware aimed at Android devices rose nearly 37% since Q2 2011. 2011 is on track to be the business year for malware ever.

By the end of 2011, McAfee is predicting that there will be 75 million different and unique malware threats. McAfee thinks that part of the reason malware is increasingly targeting Android is that devices running the OS are so popular.




According to the company, one of the most common malware threats for Q3 were trojans that sent SMS messages and stole money. The messages are generally to premium numbers that cost the user money on their phone bills. McAfee also noted that other common types of malware include fake AV, autorun, and trojans that steal passwords.

It's also interesting to note that the U.S. is the number one source of services that hold malware. The report pegs 65.8% of the servers with malware in the U.S. with Europe and the Middle East collectively having 22.8% of all servers with malware.

The massive growth in malware this year has lead to 2011 being called the year of mobile malware. Apple is being overlooked for malware threats thanks in part to tighter security practices.

Source: TechCrunch
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
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More info on Android Security.....

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/android-smartphone-vulnerability-security,news-13346.html

Researchers Find That Not All Androids Are Equally Secure
3:00 PM - November 30, 2011 - By Douglas Perry -

Researchers at North Carolina State University (NCSU) have published a paper which details differences in Android security across eight models.

According to the findings, only three phones "properly" enforced Android's permission-based security model.

The conclusion is that Google's Nexus One and Nexus S phones with baseline Android configurations as well as the Motorola Droid "were basically clean." However, pre-installed applications added by manufacturers and carriers add a substantial risk of successful malicious attack to phones, Xuxian Jiang, an assistant professor of computer science at NCSUand co-author of a paper describing the research, said.

HTC’s Legend, EVO 4G and Wildfire S, Motorola’s Droid X and Samsung’s Epic 4G revealed "significant vulnerabilities." The EVO 4G was the most vulnerable phone with eight leaked permissions in the test. The Legend and the Wildfire had six leaks each, followed by the Wildfire and Droid X with four leaks each.

"Some of these pre-loaded applications, or features, are designed to make the smartphones more user-friendly, such as features that notify you of missed calls or text messages," said Jiang. “The problem is that these pre-loaded apps are built on top of the existing Android architecture in such a way as to create potential 'backdoors' that can be used to give third-parties direct access to personal information or other phone features."

The researchers said that they notified the software vendors of the discovered vulnerabilities prior to the release of the report and recommend that users should keep up with security updates from software vendors to protect themselves from attacks.

How will Intel address this problem?
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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This post has absolutely nothing to do with anything remotely related to this thread.

You may as well ask how Corning is going to address this problem.

Intel is showing that arm is not magic...

I brought that up for at least two reasons:

1. People don't buy phones strictly based on hardware specs. (eg, Apple). They really do care about security.....at least the ones willing to pay money do.

2. I am skeptical on Intel being able to make the necessary margins based on hardware sales alone.
 

Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
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Why not discuss the performance and power needs instead of everything but those? They are sort of what the thread is about.
 

Vesku

Diamond Member
Aug 25, 2005
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If Intel's claimed power characteristics pan out then it shouldn't be too far off of the quad core ARMs. Part of the cost of early adoption AND high performance is needing more power. I'd expect them to cram in whatever size battery they need to hit 8+ hours of regular use.

I don't like to sign cell contracts and I have my doubts the first gen medfield phones will be reasonably priced, we shall see.
 

Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
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2. I am skeptical on Intel being able to make the necessary margins based on hardware sales alone.

Quite true. Sure the smart phone/tablet market has excellent volume, but looking at the BoM for various current products the processor is only $15-$25 of the cost. That's still more than enough to make a good profit (far better for Intel than the other players that have to both pay ARM royalty and the fab) but it's likely quite a bit lower than the margins they're used to. Still, if Intel can have a marked lead in both performance and power (likely the case with their 2013 products) then they can probably command a higher asking price. Current SoCs are so inexpensive in large part because there's not much to distinguish one from another... which is why Intel could pull even further away if they can play the security card as well.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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Why not discuss the performance and power needs instead of everything but those? They are sort of what the thread is about.

Well it is a CPU forum, but the opening post is talking about software (see below).

Vesku from opening post of this thread said:
Intel should really push a unified x86 application marketplace, apps that are functional from all your x86 devices.

Two more pertinent pieces of information that fit into that:

1. Intel not so long ago purchased WindRiver (a firm that hardens open source software...like Android...to make it commercially viable). More info here.

First, Intel bought a company called Wind River. A $400M company prior to acquisition, Intel snagged WindRiver back in July of 2009. Their mission statement? To take open source software and make it commercially viable.

Whether it’s stress testing or adding new features, Wind River takes open source software and improves it to the point where you can now sell it as a commercial product. This is similar to what Apple did with the base of much of OS X. You take some good open source projects and pay people to polish and harden the last 10 - 20% of them.

Wind River has a platform for Android. It incorporates Atom optimizations into Android, hardens the software stack and prepares it for use in Moorestown devices. Google has little incentive to dedicate a lot of support to Moorestown, so Intel had to internalize that.

2. Intel also bought McAfee. (the security software firm I quoted in post #27 that reported the rise Android's Malware)

So there is a really good chance Intel can bring their platform to a much higher level. In fact, if they polish the platform sufficiently maybe they can enjoy some good app store profits (like Apple.) rather than being just another SOC vendor in an already over-crowded hardware field.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
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2. I am skeptical on Intel being able to make the necessary margins based on hardware sales alone.

What are Apple's iPhone margins? We probably don't know, I suspect, because we don't really know the %-cuts they get of the revenue stream for the coverage providers. Do we?
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
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Current SoCs are so inexpensive in large part because there's not much to distinguish one from another... which is why Intel could pull even further away if they can play the security card as well.

Yes, it seems they have a real chance to distinguish themselves.

With respect to post #28 I am even wondering at what point Intel might begin to wrestle power to away from the carriers (ie, achieving a greater level of control rather than letting carriers add these apparently "Security fouling" apps on, etc)
 
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Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
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Yes, it seems they have a real chance to distinguish themselves.

With respect to post #28 I am even wondering if Intel might begin to wrestle power to away from the carriers and make their Android platform more like Apple. (ie, a greater level of control by Intel rather than letting carriers add these apparently "Security fouling" apps on, etc)

And as I just realized, it's so simple for Intel to keep any security perks that they develop in the mobile space all to themselves - just keep them x86 exclusive. The fact that Intel effectively has the x86 implementation of Android all to itself introduces some interesting possibilities in that regard. Granted it'd more likely be something along the lines of a freely distributed Android security program compiled for x86 rather than something included within Android itself.
 

dealcorn

Senior member
May 28, 2011
247
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2. I am skeptical on Intel being able to make the necessary margins based on hardware sales alone. Computer Bottleneck is offline Report Post

I think Medfield is about 82 mm or 62.5% of the 131 mm required for dual core Sandy Bridge. Hopefully, there is some cheap Celeron or Pentium Sandy Bridge product where 62.5% of its price would make Medfield competitive. However, there are at least two reasons the comparison is nonsense.

First Medfield is made in 32 nm fabs that are either already/almost fully depreciated and about to be scrapped or upgraded. When you generate additional gross profit from fully depreciated facilities it helps your margins.

Second, Medfield is not made using 32 nm transistors. It is made using 32 nm LP transistors which is a new process and the development costs have to be amortized somewhere which hurts your profitability.

If Intel likes having the world's best fabs and the world's best process technology it probably needs to win this market even if there are some costs to do so. I suspect in 5 years they will sort out possible margin issues and all of their semi business will look pretty good.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,786
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I think Medfield is about 82 mm or 62.5% of the 131 mm required for dual core Sandy Bridge.

The Penwell SoC(Medfield) is anywhere from 50-65mm2. The wafer shot I've seen showed 37 chips by 42 chips which makes it,

300/37 + 300/42 = 8.1mm x 7.1 = 58mm2

The package makes it bigger than it seems. It's not a integrated heat spreader, but something more akin to the ones they use in now obsolete in ICH chips. By counting I estimated ~60mm2 for the dual core version of Cedarview. The actual die is 56mm2. So Penwell might be similar. It can't be too big as the package itself is only 12mm x 12mm = 144mm2. Remember, under the package has PoP memory as well.
 
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Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
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Nemesis, have you seen TSMC's 28nm or GLOBALFOUNDRIES'? Don't know what's going on at GloFo, but TSMC's node looks pretty good and that's not the low power process.

Whats your point? Intels Medfield with available info / Matches Arms best to date in performance and eff. Thats all anyone in intels corner wanted to see. The first round Arm beat intel up pretty good . The second round is a draw. Intel at 22nm will put Arm on the mat. They won't be out but its is a knock down . Your talking about future chips that aren't here . Medfield goes on sale in china in 2qt. 2012. So this tells me medfield is priced right . The first Intel atom chip cost intel $6 to make . I would think that medfield is even cheaper . So selling a medfield for $20 for what is intels entry level chip sounds right on . The 2 core medfield with the new gpu should allow intel to shine in the tablet market. 1 week ago no one including self thought medfield would do so well.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
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Your talking about future chips that aren't here . Medfield goes on sale in china in 2qt. 2012.

Nemesis, You must be thinking about the Cortex A15s.... the Qualcomm (28nm Krait) Snapdragons are supposed to be released 1H 2012.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
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No . I am not viewing medfield in anyway other light than intels entry level to smart phones . So I don't have medfield at the highend. Intels next chip @22nm Has to go against A15s and from what medfield is showing . This thing has become more than what if and buts. Medfield surprized me. I was thinking we went get this kind of news till 22 atom. Intel medfield does well against present company but its a year late as anand stated.
 
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podspi

Golden Member
Jan 11, 2011
1,982
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No . I am not viewing medfield in anyway other light than intels entry level to smart phones . So I don't have medfield at the highend. Intels next chip @22nm Has to go against A15s and from what medfield is showing . This thing has become more than what if and buts. Medfield surprized me. I was thinking we went get this kind of news till 22 atom. Intel medfield does well against present company but its a year late as anand stated.

I agree, I wasn't expecting anything looking this good from atom until 22nm. Assuming Intel executes well, next-gen atom is going to be a formidable opponent for arm...
 
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