Medical Malpractice?

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: Gravity
So, I go to the ER to get a fish hook removed from one of my fingers. I tell the doc in the process that I got a small, pea sized lump on a different finger and can he cut that out too. He says no, but he'll refer me to a hand specialist.

So, I see the specialist and say "ok, let's take this out right here."

He says, no, we'll have to go to a surgery center, never know what you might run into.

so, I expected a local block, which they did, but upon arrival, learned they were gonna put me to sleep! I figured they know what they are doing but heck, I was skeert!

So, they put me to sleep, I get 11 stitches in my finger and I wake up an hour later.

Apparently, in Louisiana, they have a rep for unnecessary surgery but I just moved here. I guess I was exposed to an unnecessary threat from the anisthesia.

A friend who seems to know medicine (worked in the OR for 20 years as a nurse) says I should sue them for wrekless endangerment.

Your opinions?

Uh you have it a bit backwards. They are trying to protect themselves from malpractice suits. If something went wrong and they werent in a surger center they(and you) would be screwed.

 

[imported_Bishop]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Bishop
Hmm...so you are perfectly fine, yet your friend wants you to sue? And people wonder why medical costs skyrocket. I would expect local to be enough for a lump on your finger, but neither I nor your friend knows why general was used. There may be a perfectly good reason, there may not be a good reason. Either way, the lump is out, you are fine...why sue again?

and you don't think that unnecessarily putting the guy to sleep to remove a lump from a finger has NOTHING to do with skyrocketing medical costs??

:roll:

Um, first off, we don't know if it was a mixture of local and benzo, a light dosage of general for use as a sedative, or general in normal dosage. Second, we don't know the reasoning. In light of the fact that we don't have this information, neither of us are qualified to make a judgement.

:roll: <--- I can do it too.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Bishop

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Bishop
Hmm...so you are perfectly fine, yet your friend wants you to sue? And people wonder why medical costs skyrocket. I would expect local to be enough for a lump on your finger, but neither I nor your friend knows why general was used. There may be a perfectly good reason, there may not be a good reason. Either way, the lump is out, you are fine...why sue again?

and you don't think that unnecessarily putting the guy to sleep to remove a lump from a finger has NOTHING to do with skyrocketing medical costs??

:roll:

Um, first off, we don't know if it was a mixture of local and benzo, a light dosage of general for use as a sedative, or general in normal dosage. Second, we don't know the reasoning. In light of the fact that we don't have this information, neither of us are qualified to make a judgement.

:roll: <--- I can do it too.

you made a judgement, i made one now all of a sudden neither of us can?

:roll: :roll:

i can do it twice.

 

[Doggiedog]

My son just had 5 stitches on his head and I saw the bill for $900!!

Fortunately, my insurance paid for it all but the $20 deductible.

 

[Lvis]

I've had several lumps removed from my arms. It's not a big deal, the surgeon doesn't even wear a mask. I helped him a couple of times when he needed an extra hand. He just uses a local, injected with a varicose vein needle. No pain at all, from either the injection or the incision. Not much blood either, since the injection has something in it to slow that, too.

I think you may well have been hosed, but doubt you can find a lawyer willing to take the case. Happily, you don't have any damages.

 

[imported_Bishop]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

you made a judgement, i made one now all of a sudden neither of us can?

:roll: :roll:

i can do it twice.

My judgement was on the fact of sueing, yours was on the necessity of the anesthetic. The OP is fine, had a chance to discuss the procedure witht he doctors, and consented to the anesthetic, why does he need to sue? That was my judgement.

You say the anesthetic was unecessary when you don't even know what was used, how it was used, or why it was used. That was your judgement, and the one I was saying neither of us was qualified to make.



:roll::roll::roll: I can do it three times.

 

[flot]

Oddly enough, a friend of mine just had something similar removed from his finger.

It was assumed that it would be a simple 10 minute operation, but again, he woke up an hour later and had a bunch of stiches in his finger.

He actually _asked_ about all this, and as it turns out they have to be much more careful around your hand than they would if say, the lump was on the middle of your leg. If it was on your leg, they'd just slice out a big chunk of skin and fat and the lump would come with it. However, on your fingers, there's all sorts of things to be worried about, the growth could be entertwined with anything in there, and in general if they screw up, it could seriously impact your ability to do things like type.

So, sounds like it was all pretty reasonable to me.

 

[gk1998]

1. Go here http://www.handsurg.com/anesthesia.htm first and educate yourself before crying foul
2. Depending on the size of the lump and the location of the lump (relative to blood vessels, nerves etc) a different kind of anesthesia is required
3. The decision on which type of anesthesia is decided in a team of hand surgeons and anesthesiologists and varies with the indication and the patient. It takes many years of training until you are a specialized hand surgeon. That is also to reason why the first doctor did not want to take out the lump, suggesting that it really required a specialist.
4. The bill probably includes the services of the surgeon, the anesthesiologist, the nursing team, the clinical laboratory that does the analysis of your blood pre-op, and the services of the pathologist and its team that prepare the lump so it can be analyzed. Add to that the consumables (reagents, needles, medication) and you'll see how fast the cost adds up. The margin pressure on that kind of services has been growing in the last years, so do not think that the surgeon will get 90% of the bill
5. And again, why not EDUCATE yourself first before jumping to conclusoins.
6. And finally, working in the ER is very different from being a hand surgeon, so why not talk to an expert in hand surgery instead of a ER nurse/doctor ???

 

[cerebusPu]

ah...seee above reply. sounds reasonable to me

 

[Blastomyces]

I doubt you had full general anesthesia. (do you knwo if you were intubated?). What likely happened was that you had a local block and some propofol/versed/fentanyl to keep you sleepy/amnestic during the procedure.

 

[Gravity]

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: Gravity
They also used a Bier block as a local. It was neat and I was numb. Then they gave me the other shot and I was ZZzzZZzz....for quite a while.

Anisthesia is cumulative and can reside in your liver for days/weeks. If I needed to be anestitized again due to injury, it could have been ineffective or fatal.

That's the danger of the general PLUS the local vs. the local alone.

So, did you bring up these concerns with the anethesiologist and request that just a local be used? Or just after the fact?
The surgeon &amp; anethesiologist reccomended general, and you agreed to it.

Also, are you sure it was a general anethesia? I had a block and some kind of sedative when I had surgery for a pilonidal cyst, and it may as well have been general ... I was gone.

Good point. I'll have to check into that. It was injected into the iv thingy in my hand. I was GONE>....no doubt about it but it might not have been totally gone in their definition.

 

[Gravity]

Originally posted by: SLU MD
Are you sure that you were put to sleep? Were you put on a ventilator? This sounds like there is a good possiblity that they gave you meds that cause amnesia when in fact you were awake throughout. Please check up on that before claiming anything.

SLU MD

Okay, hadn't considered that. Might have been some sort of sedative to make me really woozy aka asleep.

Thanks!

 

[Gravity]

Originally posted by: XZeroII
Why didn't you ask them ahead of time? It's your own fault for not researching ahead of time. Don't be a jerk and sue.

While utilizing an attorney to asert my claim probably doesn't automatically make me a "jerk" as you put it, I'm just getting feedback.

In the pre-op I signed about 2 dozen forms, one of which, probably explained the depth of anastesia. I don't recall it specifically.

 

[Gravity]

Originally posted by: gk1998
1. Go here http://www.handsurg.com/anesthesia.htm first and educate yourself before crying foul
2. Depending on the size of the lump and the location of the lump (relative to blood vessels, nerves etc) a different kind of anesthesia is required
3. The decision on which type of anesthesia is decided in a team of hand surgeons and anesthesiologists and varies with the indication and the patient. It takes many years of training until you are a specialized hand surgeon. That is also to reason why the first doctor did not want to take out the lump, suggesting that it really required a specialist.
4. The bill probably includes the services of the surgeon, the anesthesiologist, the nursing team, the clinical laboratory that does the analysis of your blood pre-op, and the services of the pathologist and its team that prepare the lump so it can be analyzed. Add to that the consumables (reagents, needles, medication) and you'll see how fast the cost adds up. The margin pressure on that kind of services has been growing in the last years, so do not think that the surgeon will get 90% of the bill
5. And again, why not EDUCATE yourself first before jumping to conclusoins.
6. And finally, working in the ER is very different from being a hand surgeon, so why not talk to an expert in hand surgery instead of a ER nurse/doctor ???

Best advice I've had all day. Many thanks for your organized and helpful response!!!

 

[z0mb13]

so what caused the lump???

 

[Babbles]

I would not even consider suing if I were you. However you really may want to stay in touch with the doc to see what that lump is. It could have been something simple like a wart or the formation of a cancer cell cluster thing. I would think they are going to do a biopsy and before you jump the gun thinking it was unneccesary you may want to find out what it was to begin with.

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: Babbles
I would not even consider suing if I were you. However you really may want to stay in touch with the doc to see what that lump is. It could have been something simple like a wart or the formation of a cancer cell cluster thing. I would think they are going to do a biopsy and before you jump the gun thinking it was unneccesary you may want to find out what it was to begin with.

how do u tell the difference between a wart and cancer??

 

[iliopsoas]

Originally posted by: Gravity
They also used a Bier block as a local. It was neat and I was numb. Then they gave me the other shot and I was ZZzzZZzz....for quite a while.

Anisthesia is cumulative and can reside in your liver for days/weeks. If I needed to be anestitized again due to injury, it could have been ineffective or fatal.

That's the danger of the general PLUS the local vs. the local alone.

Are you sure you had general anesthesia? Did the anesthesiologist tell you that they put a tube into your trachea to help you breathe? You may have had only conscious sedation. $3600 isn't much for general endotracheal anesthesia and hand surgery.

As for the lump in your hand, it really depends on how involved it is. Hand surgery is delicate. People do many years of training to become a hand surgeon. If cosmetics and hand function aren't important to you, then I can remove the lump for you myself. $500. Just make sure you sign a waiver.

Also, you don't know what that lump is. If there is any possibility of it being a cancerous growth, then the surgeon has to take great care to completely excise it and send to the lab for pathologic examination. Ever thought about these reasons when you were referred to a hand specialist?

It seems like you received pretty good care and suffered no complications. You don't even seem to know much about the medical care that you received. And you're thinking of suing?

 

[iliopsoas]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Bishop
Hmm...so you are perfectly fine, yet your friend wants you to sue? And people wonder why medical costs skyrocket. I would expect local to be enough for a lump on your finger, but neither I nor your friend knows why general was used. There may be a perfectly good reason, there may not be a good reason. Either way, the lump is out, you are fine...why sue again?

and you don't think that unnecessarily putting the guy to sleep to remove a lump from a finger has NOTHING to do with skyrocketing medical costs??

:roll:

I don't think you guys understand this issue very well and shouldn't spread misinformation.

First off, getting "put to sleep" does NOT equate to general endotracheal anesthesia where they put you out and support you with a ventilator. The guy may have received nothing more than heavy sedation and has little recollection of the events. Conscious sedation is used in many procedures these days.

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: Babbles
I would not even consider suing if I were you. However you really may want to stay in touch with the doc to see what that lump is. It could have been something simple like a wart or the formation of a cancer cell cluster thing. I would think they are going to do a biopsy and before you jump the gun thinking it was unneccesary you may want to find out what it was to begin with.

how do u tell the difference between a wart and cancer??

The lab can do a biopsy. I would think the chance of it be cancerous to be very very low, but there is always that possibility. It could be a benign cyst of some sort.
My point in all of this is that it could have been something that was of concern. Also as somebody mentioned the hand is a very delicate body part, you just don't want somebody to go cutting in there. Even per the OP the first doctor recommended him to a hand surgeon, so that does show some sort of genuine concern.

 

[imported_Bishop]

Originally posted by: iliopsoas
I don't think you guys understand this issue very well and shouldn't spread misinformation.

First off, getting "put to sleep" does NOT equate to general endotracheal anesthesia where they put you out and support you with a ventilator. The guy may have received nothing more than heavy sedation and has little recollection of the events. Conscious sedation is used in many procedures these days.

Um...that's kinda what I said. Though I still don't understand this situation as well as, say, a doctor, specifically an anesthesiologist.

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: Babbles
I would not even consider suing if I were you. However you really may want to stay in touch with the doc to see what that lump is. It could have been something simple like a wart or the formation of a cancer cell cluster thing. I would think they are going to do a biopsy and before you jump the gun thinking it was unneccesary you may want to find out what it was to begin with.

how do u tell the difference between a wart and cancer??

The lab can do a biopsy. I would think the chance of it be cancerous to be very very low, but there is always that possibility. It could be a benign cyst of some sort.
My point in all of this is that it could have been something that was of concern. Also as somebody mentioned the hand is a very delicate body part, you just don't want somebody to go cutting in there. Even per the OP the first doctor recommended him to a hand surgeon, so that does show some sort of genuine concern.

is there a rule of thumb to determine whether a lump is cancerous or not??

you know its kinda lame to go to a doctor to simply ask for this...

are cancerous lumps hard?? maybe this is how to tell??

 

[virtuamike]

In the old country we don't have anesthesia

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: z0mb13
is there a rule of thumb to determine whether a lump is cancerous or not??

you know its kinda lame to go to a doctor to simply ask for this...

are cancerous lumps hard?? maybe this is how to tell??

Not really, else they would not have to do a biopsy. It is not lame to ask a doctor if you think something could be canceorus. I have had warts so I know what they look like, but if it is a cyst or something then it may be a bit more difficult.
Cancer can be difficult to detect, some people that get skin cancer think it is just a mole. That is why they are doctors, and not you!

 

[Gravity]

Originally posted by: z0mb13
so what caused the lump???

It was a foreign body, aka thorn.