Medical School... a little late and with a LOT of debt

[Proprioceptive]

Yeah... coming to ATOT for life advice... I'm sure this will go over well. However, I would really appreciate insight from anyone in a similar situation or anyone who knows someone who's dealt with similar issues.

So, here I am getting ready to turn 30. I started college back in 2003 with hopes of becoming a teacher, but fell out of love with it. Then I started having issues with depression which subsequently affected my schooling. I married in 2006 and now have three kids. I spent years in and out of school living off of part-time jobs and private student loans. Yes, I know this was stupid, but... well, I was stupid.

I stopped going to school altogether back in 2011 when my wife expressed interest in going into the Army's MSW program. We spent a year applying and she was going to be accepted until she came down with meningoencephalitis. She was in the hospital for two months and the Army would no longer take her. Now we may be looking at a possible diagnosis of relapsing/remitting multiple sclerosis. A lot of things have changed in my life lately that have made me want to go back to school and actually succeed.

I've tackled my depression and believe I can finally live up to my potential. I've been working the last two years as a manager for a chain restaurant. but the pay is horrible and our debts are ridiculously high. We have $200k+ in student debt (the VAST majority of this is accrued interest which has capitalized as we've been on deferment). A lot of this was just our fault for not being smart with money when we were younger. We're fortunate enough to have parents who have let us live with them rent free until we're financially able to find our own place. My wife is trying to get into nursing school, but her illness may prevent her from actually getting there. I need to step up and step up BIG.

I have 8 years of awful transcript that would be laughed at by any institution of higher learning. I'm currently contacting the university to see if there is a way for me to wipe my slate clean so that I can start over. I know this is a long shot, but it's worth a try. I'm seriously looking into the field of anesthesiology and know this will take 12 years of schooling, but I'm willing to put in the work and time. I'm older for getting into this field, but I don't think this will be an issue. I think the biggest issue is the debt we already have. I can't file for bankruptcy with private student loans, so that's out of the question. I'm doing research, but right now I feel so out of my element and I'm reaching out to friends and family to find out how to accomplish this goal. Maybe someone in this community has experience with this and can give me some advice.

Obviously some of you will probably chastise me for making such poor life decisions, but I'm ready to put that all behind me and move forward.

 

[Juddog]

$200k? Holy sh!t that's a lot of money! Why would you possibly think piling even more debt on top of that would be a good idea?

 

[Proprioceptive]

$200k? Holy sh!t that's a lot of money! Why would you possibly think piling even more debt on top of that would be a good idea?

Because I don't know how I can pay back the debt with such a low paying job right now and still provide for my family properly... and the medical field at least offers me a financial means to pay it back even if I won't be able to live the high life. I just want to be responsible and do right by my family.

 

[Juddog]

I hate to sound critical but at this point I wouldn't advise going back to school for 12 more years when you're already $200k in debt - find yourself a job that you can do with cheap schooling that pays well, e.g. a truckdriver, etc. and work on paying down your debt first. Getting a CDL is cheap and you can get a job that pays a ton of money if you're responsible.

If you've had that much trouble with just regular courses, no offense, but I wouldn't want you being in a hospital with someone's life in your hands.

 

[Jimzz]

With 200k of debt, 3 kids, maybe sick wife, etc... I think Med school would kill you if not at least make depression even worse.

I took some pre-med class (like A&P and such) and just the pre-work alone is hard let alone full blown med school and your issues.

Not sure where to start but I would not go the Med School route myself. How about Nurse anesthetist? Still very hard but maybe doable for you?

 

[Slew Foot]

DO NOT GO INTO MED SCHOOL. Doctors are a dying breed in the US. Especially a decade from now, all the money in heathcare will go to drug companies and beaurcrats. Doctors will be glorified techs, and be paid as such.

 

[Eug]

I'm not sure where you would get into medical school with this:

I have 8 years of awful transcript that would be laughed at by any institution of higher learning.

Plus, making money is a terrible reason to go to medical school. If that's the main reason, you'd likely absolutely hate it.

DO NOT GO INTO MED SCHOOL. Doctors are a dying breed in the US. Especially a decade from now, all the money in heathcare will go to drug companies and beaurcrats. Doctors will be glorified techs, and be paid as such.

Meh, someone always has to say this for some reason, but it's been said for decades.

 

[jaedaliu]

I see 2 questions:

1) How do I become a doctor with my history?

2) How do I triple my student loans?

Dealing with question 1: Do you have a bachelor's degree? You need one to apply for medical school. Let's pretend you do, but you don't have any of the listed pre-reqs for applying.

Figure out where you want to apply, and take the classes needed. GET STRAIGHT As.

Volunteer at a hospital or clinic. Don't push patients around. Do something with actual patient interaction. Get to know a doctor or 3. Well enough that they're willing to vouch for your amazingness. Get letters of recommendation. This will fulfill application requirements, and show them how much you love people.

Study and take the MCAT. You want to be around a 30 or higher, but the higher it is the better.

With those, you can get into a decent medical school. I STRONGLY suggest not going to one in the Caribbean. You want to look at board exam pass rates. If they aren't approaching 100% (I would consider 90% to be low) then the school isn't preparing all students to pass the boards in order to become doctors.

part 2: Get into medical school. Over the 4 years of schooling, you'll accumulate $200k of debt just for tuition and traveling fees, and by the time you're done with training (5 more years i think for anesthesiology) your compounded interest will kill you. And if that doesn't, being an absent parent while your wife is struggling with MS is going to kill you.

conclusion: don't go into medicine for the money. It's not worth it. You're going to want to quit at some point because of the hours spent studying instead of being there for your loved ones. However, if you truly want to help people, then maybe it's the place for you. There's just a ton of sacrifice.

question: whats a private student loan? is it the same as the FAFSA stuff? If it is, go with an income based repayment. The govt only requires a small percentage of your total income to go towards student loan repayment. Your interest may grow while you're on that plan. But it's okay, as long as you've made good payments for 30 years, the rest will be forgiven. If you happen to luck out and make it big in those 30 years, you'll pay it all off, but that's okay, because even then the system is set up so that your lifestyle isn't crippled to make payments.

 

[Proprioceptive]

With 200k of debt, 3 kids, maybe sick wife, etc... I think Med school would kill you if not at least make depression even worse.

I took some pre-med class (like A&P and such) and just the pre-work alone is hard let alone full blown med school and your issues.

Not sure where to start but I would not go the Med School route myself. How about Nurse anesthetist? Still very hard but maybe doable for you?

I have amazing family around me and a LOT of support if needed. I know that my time away from my family won't be as much of an issue as some would imagine. Since coming forward with my issues, I've seen a lot of support.

I hate to sound critical but at this point I wouldn't advise going back to school for 12 more years when you're already $200k in debt - find yourself a job that you can do with cheap schooling that pays well, e.g. a truckdriver, etc. and work on paying down your debt first. Getting a CDL is cheap and you can get a job that pays a ton of money if you're responsible.

If you've had that much trouble with just regular courses, no offense, but I wouldn't want you being in a hospital with someone's life in your hands.

Normally I would agree about not going to med school, but fortunately I'm a very smart person and more than capable for the medical field. My issues were motivational and anxiety based. These are issues I have tackled and can manage.

I'm not sure where you would get into medical school with this:

I have 8 years of awful transcript that would be laughed at by any institution of higher learning.

Plus, making money is a terrible reason to go to medical school. If that's the main reason, you'd likely absolutely hate it.


Meh, someone always has to say this for some reason, but it's been said for decades.

Money is a factor, but I also want to work in the medical field.

 

[lothar]

So your ultimate plan is to get even more student loans with no reasonable chance of success(based on your history of failing/dropping out of school)?

You are 30 now...By the time you finish, you'll be 42-45, with med school debt($300-400k) + the current $200k debt you already have(which will possibly be much more due to capitalized interest after 15 years).

 

[Juddog]

Normally I would agree about not going to med school, but fortunately I'm a very smart person and more than capable for the medical field. My issues were motivational and anxiety based. These are issues I have tackled and can manage.

I hate to break it to you, but if you're $200k in debt with crap grades and a crap job, you're not as smart as you think you are.

I don't think you realize how brutal medical school is, and what type of impact the hours alone would have on you and your family. Furthermore, not graduating until you're in your early 40's, with $400k in debt, is going to be a hopeless future.

You need to think of what else you can be good in without expending a lot more money to go back to school for. I mentioned the CDL because if you're willing to do it, you can graduate and end up with a job in the $75k range in a few years of work, as long as you're responsible. Going to med school for 12 years is not only going to screw yourself, but it's going to screw your family as well.

 

[lothar]

DO NOT GO INTO MED SCHOOL. Doctors are a dying breed in the US. Especially a decade from now, all the money in healthcare will go to drug companies and bureaucrats. Doctors will be glorified techs, and be paid as such.

The same has been happening to Pharmacists as well.
I've been recommending people not to go to pharmacy school since 2009.

 

[Blackjack200]

I took a serious look at medical school 3 or 4 years ago. OP could actually do it if he really wanted to. He'd start by taking all his pre-med courses (Physics, Chemistry, Calculus, English, Biology) at a community college and acing everything. Then he'd kill the MCATs, and that would pretty much do it.

I really wouldn't advise it though. Like Eug said, if he doesn't have a passion for science and medicine, I don't think he'd even make it through the Pre-med coursework.

OP, are there any degrees that you're close to earning? Even with bad transcripts there are schools (state schools, community colleges, for profit schools) that will take you.

If I were you I'd get the degree I was closest to earning, then apply the balls-to-the-wall work ethic that you would have needed in medical school. You should be able to move up and make a decent salary.

Forget about the $200k, I can't even imagine paying that off. I think after 30 years you can discharge it, but I'm not sure. You'll just have to learn to live with a terrible credit score.

Another alternative is to get an energy job somewhere.

 

[Proprioceptive]

I hate to break it to you, but if you're $200k in debt with crap grades and a crap job, you're not as smart as you think you are.

I don't think you realize how brutal medical school is, and what type of impact the hours alone would have on you and your family. Furthermore, not graduating until you're in your early 40's, with $400k in debt, is going to be a hopeless future.

You need to think of what else you can be good in without expending a lot more money to go back to school for. I mentioned the CDL because if you're willing to do it, you can graduate and end up with a job in the $75k range in a few years of work, as long as you're responsible. Going to med school for 12 years is not only going to screw yourself, but it's going to screw your family as well.

I've been thinking a lot lately about these points. I'm really trying to see what is the most viable option. I would love to work in the medical field, and despite what you might think, I'm a very intelligent person... I just made some serious mistakes early on. Your CDL idea is something I'll have to look in to.

 

[Svnla]

The same has been happening to Pharmacists as well.
I've been recommending people not to go to pharmacy school since 2009.

Really? Bad for Pharmacists too?

When I see Pharmacist around here making $100K or close to under/over, I wish I did go to Pre-Med and then become a Pharmacist instead of what I had then. :\


Back to the OP, are you sure you really want to spend more time and more money (in which you don't have a lot of in both)? I do like the idea of working in the oil/gas fields. Dirty and tough but good money.

 

[Proprioceptive]

I took a serious look at medical school 3 or 4 years ago. OP could actually do it if he really wanted to. He'd start by taking all his pre-med courses (Physics, Chemistry, Calculus, English, Biology) at a community college and acing everything. Then he'd kill the MCATs, and that would pretty much do it.

I really wouldn't advise it though. Like Eug said, if he doesn't have a passion for science and medicine, I don't think he'd even make it through the Pre-med coursework.

OP, are there any degrees that you're close to earning? Even with bad transcripts there are schools (state schools, community colleges, for profit schools) that will take you.

If I were you I'd get the degree I was closest to earning, then apply the balls-to-the-wall work ethic that you would have needed in medical school. You should be able to move up and make a decent salary.

Forget about the $200k, I can't even imagine paying that off. I think after 30 years you can discharge it, but I'm not sure. You'll just have to learn to live with a terrible credit score.

Another alternative is to get an energy job somewhere.

I have about 70 credit hours... and I was pursuing a BA in Geographic Information Systems... but I completely lost my love for the field.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

to me the cost/benefit + quality of life for becoming a doctor doesn't add up, especially later in life. you really want to miss your children's childhood for this? im all for going back to school but i think there might be better options.

 

[Juddog]

I've been thinking a lot lately about these points. I'm really trying to see what is the most viable option. I would love to work in the medical field, and despite what you might think, I'm a very intelligent person... I just made some serious mistakes early on. Your CDL idea is something I'll have to look in to.

CDL is just one option; are there other fields that you consider yourself to be really good in?

For example, given this is a tech forum, what about computer networking or programming?

If you have a bunch of college credits already, you might be able to transfer a bunch to the local community college and whip through a bachelors in computer programming. Given how much technology has grown over the past 10-20 years, there is an ever increasing need for smart developers.

Really what I would do, if I were in your shoes, would be to sit down and have a brainstorm session. Think of what you're good at already, what coursework you've done already, and how that could apply as quickly as possible to a job that can earn you some cash.

High end computer security, computer programming, and computer networking, are all fields which can be quite lucrative, if the individual is talented and smart enough to constantly adapt.

 

[jaedaliu]

Normally I would agree about not going to med school, but fortunately I'm a very smart person and more than capable for the medical field. My issues were motivational and anxiety based. These are issues I have tackled and can manage.

Medicine isn't for the smart. There are millions of people smarter than your doctors that can't finish medical school. Medical school is for the motivated and focused. Are you in the top 0.01% of motivation and focus? And on top of that, are you smart enough? Sounds like you're sure you're smart enough. I don't know if you're motivated enough.

 

[angminas]

The CDL is good advice. You can be on the road in a few months. Within a year (maybe much less) you should be making more money than you are now. Now that is a solution. Besides, teaching is similar enough to doctoring that, if you didn't like the one, odds are decent you wouldn't like the other. Decent enough to make this a bad gamble for you.

One thing I don't know if you've considered- there's no way you're going to be able to do med school, help your wife, take care of the kids, AND work a full-time job. You go to school, it's going to negatively affect your finances right now.

 

[Proprioceptive]

I hate to break it to you, but if you're $200k in debt with crap grades and a crap job, you're not as smart as you think you are.

I don't think you realize how brutal medical school is, and what type of impact the hours alone would have on you and your family. Furthermore, not graduating until you're in your early 40's, with $400k in debt, is going to be a hopeless future.

You need to think of what else you can be good in without expending a lot more money to go back to school for. I mentioned the CDL because if you're willing to do it, you can graduate and end up with a job in the $75k range in a few years of work, as long as you're responsible. Going to med school for 12 years is not only going to screw yourself, but it's going to screw your family as well.

I also have several family members in the medical field, so I'm keenly aware of the sacrifices. And I may be wrong about this, but my understanding is that some hospitals will pay off your medical school loans or at lest a huge chunk of them. I'm not depending on this, but it's a factor to consider.

 

[angminas]

Also, it sounds like structure is not your thing. I bet if you got on the road, you'd love it.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Med School is pretty tough, your life decisions and schooling do not seem to reflect to me someone that would do well in Med School.

Working 16hr days in Residency at 40 - Nope!

 

[rcpratt]

You already have a giant mountain of student loan debt, with, it appears, nothing to show for it. Just being honest. I wouldn't want to add to that.

I know you want to escape your situation, but with your age, that debt, your wife's situation, three kids already, etc...I don't think that's a situation where you'd want to go back to school and rack up more debt.

I'd be looking more towards the route of accreditation/2-year degree/something like that, but others here will know more about that than me.

 

[Vdubchaos]

First off, sorry to hear about your wife's problems. That's horrible.

Have you seen what happened to Lawyer industry past 5 years or so? Expect that to happen to doctors/health industry.

Basically any profession that seems "guaranteed to get you rich" is being overfilled and will become "shitty" VERY soon . Especially when you look at what is happening with the health system in this country.

It's not sustainable.

So you have 200k in debt. Do you have a degree or anything to show for it?

I really hope you are keeping a "lessons learned log" and reading it every hour of your life....

Also I think you are choosing your next profession based on pay.....HUGE mistake. You have to figure out what it is that you want to do/will enjoy.....and it's a question MOST people struggle to answer (including me).

Once you know that, you have to figure out if it's worth for you to start educating yourself for that profession.

Right now, the biggest obstacle you have is "what you can afford". With 200k debt, you can't afford ANYTHING right now.

Student loan is NOT an unlimited amount of money you can use whenever you choose to. It's a LOAN. Just like credit cards........engagement rings and other crap, it's about WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD.

Right now, you can't afford ANY education....

CDL is a good idea, but one that will isolate you from your children/family.....