Medical School... a little late and with a LOT of debt

[jhu]

Even if by some miracle the OP were to gain admission to med school and actually graduate, your chances of finding a residency program that would accept someone of that advanced age is zero.

Incorrect. I knew a guy who got into an anesthesiology residency at age 44. I knew another guy who I think was in his 40s (had 6 kids), get into a radiology residency. This second guy used to be a PA before medical school.

 

[Juddog]

Incorrect. I knew a guy who got into an anesthesiology residency at age 44. I knew another guy who I think was in his 40s (had 6 kids), get into a radiology residency. This second guy used to be a PA before medical school.

Which of them got in with a 1.8 GPA?

 

[Blackjack200]

Which of them got in with a 1.8 GPA?

The OP doesn't have a bac. degree yet. Theoretically, he would go back to community college and do 60 credits of a biology degree, then after acing everything, he would apply to and easily get into a State school based on his recent academic performance. The State School will not care that he failed out 10 years ago. He would finish his 4 year degree there, again, acing everything, and in his junior year he would get letters of recommendation and ace his MCAT (or maybe that happens in Junior year, I don't remember).

With A's across the board, strong MCATs, and letters of recommendation, he would get into medical school. They wouldn't care about his old 1.8 GPA.

Keep in mind that while what I've written is straightforward, it's incredibly challenging, and he'd be competing against hundreds of thousands of highly motivated 20 year olds that don't have a wife with medical problems or three kids, or $200k of debt.

 

[ManBearPig]

deleted

 

[Blackjack200]

There's a 3.0 cutoff at a lot (if not all) of schools iirc (my friend was applying and told me about this).

I believe that only applies to your degree GPA. No one with a 3.0 GPA is going to score well on the MCAT anyway, so it seems kind of silly.

 

[Juddog]

I believe that only applies to your degree GPA. No one with a 3.0 GPA is going to score well on the MCAT anyway, so it seems kind of silly.

Like you said, it's close to impossible given the constraints of having kids and a sick wife. If he was young, single, and motivated, then I could see it happening, but when you're married with kids you just don't simply have that much extra time on your hands, plus the pressure of not having any money is going to cause extra stress.

 

[mple]

University of Missouri
1.8
GIS

Sad, I know. I do appreciate all of the feedback so far. I'm still sifting through the possibilities, but after discussing this with my wife at length tonight, she's not sure this would be a good idea. We'll figure this out.

With that kind of GPA and 70 credit hours in, you will need 4 years worth of credit hours maintaining above a 3.8 GPA to look remotely competitive. You will also need shadowing experience (a lot of it) and academic research. A 37+ MCAT score minimum as well.

The OP doesn't have a bac. degree yet. Theoretically, he would go back to community college and do 60 credits of a biology degree, then after acing everything, he would apply to and easily get into a State school based on his recent academic performance. The State School will not care that he failed out 10 years ago. He would finish his 4 year degree there, again, acing everything, and in his junior year he would get letters of recommendation and ace his MCAT (or maybe that happens in Junior year, I don't remember).

With A's across the board, strong MCATs, and letters of recommendation, he would get into medical school. They wouldn't care about his old 1.8 GPA.

Keep in mind that while what I've written is straightforward, it's incredibly challenging, and he'd be competing against hundreds of thousands of highly motivated 20 year olds that don't have a wife with medical problems or three kids, or $200k of debt.

If OP wants a reality check he can attempt a pre-med schedule. ~20 credit hours of pre-med coursework (community college course work is frowned upon by the admissions commitee by the way), start shadowing a physician on the weekends, and begin academic research right away at a local university. If he makes it out of the first semester/quarter with a 4.0 GPA, that will only be the start and he will need to keep this performance up for another 3.5 years before even applying for interviews. Bombing that first semester (or even performing mediocre) may snap some sense into the OP.

 

[Eug]

Even if by some miracle the OP were to gain admission to med school and actually graduate, your chances of finding a residency program that would accept someone of that advanced age is zero.

That is completely wrong. There are significant numbers of residents that enter in their late 30s and in their 40s.

University of Missouri
1.8
GIS

Sad, I know. I do appreciate all of the feedback so far. I'm still sifting through the possibilities, but after discussing this with my wife at length tonight, she's not sure this would be a good idea. We'll figure this out.

Ouch.

While I agree that a GPA of 1.8 may not represent your true potential, I'd have to agree with the others here by saying that it should serve as a very, very, very strong warning. You may just not have the smarts to get the grades necessary for a decent medical school. You've already demonstrated that you may not have the perseverance either.

Somebody said med school isn't about smarts, but about motivation. I disagree. It's about both, and perseverance.

Unfortunately, for all of the above, it becomes a lot, lot harder at age 40. Your smarts may actually diminish. I know people who were straight A students at 20, but who said when they went back to school at 40+ had a hard time competing. Their brains just aren't young anymore. And at that older age with other things to worry about (mortgage, kids, sick parents, etc.), their motivation just isn't there anymore. Many made it through, but the difference there is they had straight As the first time around so we already knew they were capable of this.

With your 1.8 with not much to show for it, we're not optimistic of your chances here. We'd love for you to prove us all wrong, but the point is what you're saying here just doesn't seem practical. A practical approach would be to get into a decent paying trade that requires much less education, and going to work within the next few years.

 

[slightlyhuman]

being a doctor just isn't a reality.


get in nursing school. become an RN, work 3 12's and spend a lot of time with your kids and make decent money(you could even go on to be a first assist and believe me, this is where the money is).

get your first assist, get in good with a doctor(again, not the easiest but easier than your current plan for MD) and you're golden.

 

[Juddog]

being a doctor just isn't a reality.


get in nursing school. become an RN, work 3 12's and spend a lot of time with your kids and make decent money(you could even go on to be a first assist and believe me, this is where the money is).

get your first assist, get in good with a doctor(again, not the easiest but easier than your current plan for MD) and you're golden.

^^ This is a good idea too; if the OP has a knack for medicine and is really insistent on getting into a medical field, being an RN makes decent money, typically you get good health benefits for your family, and oftentimes allow for lots of OT to help pay off those loans.

 

[Mide]

As it's been stated by others...you have a sick wife, 3 kids, and a ton of debt. Medical school is not for someone in this position. Are you ultra smart as in you never really had to apply yourself and get As? If not then there isn't even a chance. Hell you won't even get accepted and I'm not trying to be mean.

The reason is because your competition = kids who dreamed of this since there were younger and have worked hard to get 4.0s in HS to some getting 4.0s through undergrad. They are in their early 20s are have a badass academic record.

Anything in the medical field isn't just a job...there are a lot of classes that you actually have to like or at a min be good in. From your description it sounds like you're looking at it just as an occupation that can make money.

My advice is to try to solidify a good, FT job. CDL is an option, so is joining the Military, so is going to a 2 year school for something. Maybe you can work with a company to consolidate your debt?

We all make mistakes in life and it's good that you're trying to look for options, but Medical school is so not going to happen. I've known a good number of people who have tried and they all had fairly good credentials but didn't make the cut at all. Universities don't "wipe the slate clean". The best you can do is go to a community college and try to get enough good grades to then transfer to a regular University (if you want to go that route). Either way good luck.

 

[preCRT]

Then I guess the residency program I worked with is the only one that steered clear of anyone over 40. But then it is a highly sought after program and could be choosy.

 

[Eug]

Then I guess the residency program I worked with is the only one that steered clear of anyone over 40. But then it is a highly sought after program and could be choosy.

One single residency program is not representative of the entire continent's residency programs.

BTW, a few academic residency programs actually often like some somewhat older applicants because they're often the ones with Ph.Ds and can run research labs, etc.

 

[Puppies04]

OP if you are as smart as you say then start a business, anything will do if you are willing to put the hours in you can make decent money without running up any more debt and the hours should be able to be tailored around your family somewhat.

Starting 12 years of tuition at your age with your existing debt, crazy workload and a partner that might soon need you around a lot more is insane.

I think you are living in a fantasy world TBH.

 

[Blackjack200]

Then I guess the residency program I worked with is the only one that steered clear of anyone over 40. But then it is a highly sought after program and could be choosy.

Wow, so they preferred younger doctors over doctors with superior Step 1 scores?

 

[Imp]

Somebody said med school isn't about smarts, but about motivation. I disagree. It's about both, and perseverance.

Unfortunately, for all of the above, it becomes a lot, lot harder at age 40. Your smarts may actually diminish. I know people who were straight A students at 20, but who said when they went back to school at 40+ had a hard time competing. Their brains just aren't young anymore. And at that older age with other things to worry about (mortgage, kids, sick parents, etc.), their motivation just isn't there anymore. Many made it through, but the difference there is they had straight As the first time around so we already knew they were capable of this.

There are studies out, I think, that say that your mental capacity starts diminishing after 25-ish... But I just finished graduate school two years back, straight-As, and I don't think I could do another formal school course again.

I'd be asking too often, "why the f**k am I doing this, how does it help me?". The answer would have to be something I wanted more than anything in the world. Otherwise, I'd try to do it, get pissed off that I'm being "forced" to do it, and give up after a while. There's something about school and the need to just turn a part of your brain off to succeed. Don't ask questions, just do it the way you think the person marking it will like it.

It's even harder if you can think of alternative and easier ways to meet the end goal, which is usually a salary range, and you've realized that "dream jobs" are dreams.

 

[jaedaliu]

Wow, so they preferred younger doctors over doctors with superior Step 1 scores?

Well Step 2 scores are in before the match, too.

I can't think of a good reason why a residency program would use age as a primary determining factor. Scores, culture, grades, recommendations, and demonstrated interest would seem to be much more important to me.

But then again, I'm just a neffer that sits in an office all day. My input for the match process is pretty limited as I'm my wife's +1 at applicant dinners.

 

[atotnine]

Wow I feel sorry for you op. I can feel the desperation in your posts. More debt isn't the way to go though.

 

[yhelothar]

Ouch $11,500 in San Francisco, any idea if that's all inclusive includes housing/food?

That sounds like a lot, but when I thought about it, it's cheaper than the grad school that I'm going to now. I'm currently paying $1.6k a unit, each unit provides 40 minutes of class time and maybe 20 minutes of office hours a week for 4 months. This program is 40 hours a week for 3 months.

This doesn't look like it includes housing/food.
He shouldn't go to the SF one if he wants to save on housing/food.

 

[angminas]

Either way, kudos to OP for having the guts to ask advice on such a personal subject. And kudos to most of the people who responded for giving him actual advice instead of just shitting on him.

 

[Svnla]

Here you go OP, I just saw an article about doctor.

5. Doctor: With a work schedule defined by long and irregular hours, physicians' personal lives are at the mercy of their careers. If you're on call, prepare for the possibility of being contacted by a patient during dinner with your family or a night out with your spouse. And if you plan on becoming a surgeon, you'll need a strong stomach for the routine sight of blood and an empathetic heart for delivering news about a lost loved one.

What it pays: With an average salary of $184,820, doctors were hardly pinching pennies last year. But the level of debt accumulated as a result of a grueling academic journey - undergraduate, medical school, internship, residency - can undermine financial gains. Including loans taken out for undergraduate degrees and excluding interest, the median debt for public and private medical school graduates was $170,000 in 2012. If you opt for forbearance during residency, your total repayment could reach $476,000 over the span of 25 years, according to the American Association of Medical Colleges.