Medicare for all?

[techs]

Caught this on a t.v. show. How about making Medicare available to all Americans? Medicare has the lowest administrative costs of any health insurance program.
It wouldn't cost the taxpayers a penny and would enable individuals and companies to get the most health care coverage for their dollar.

 

[PKing1977]

making the goverment pay for everyones healthcare and it not costing the taxpayers anything? How did you ever jump to that conclusion?

PKing

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: PKing1977
making the goverment pay for everyones healthcare and it not costing the taxpayers anything? How did you ever jump to that conclusion?

PKing

People and companies would pay for Medicare just like they do for private insurance. They would just get a lot more health care for their buck due to Medicares incredibly low overhead compared to all other health insurance plans.
And it would be voluntary.

 

[PKing1977]

ever think about the fact that increasing the number of people on the program would create more work and increase the about it costs.. Thus, more overhead. I would bet that the private health care providers have an increased amount of overhead for a reason. Also, people only pay a fraction of total health care cost. Just because something comes out of your paycheck each month does not mean your paying for the whole bill. Where is that money going to come from? It will cost the taxpayers a huge amount. Look at Tencare that is an expanded Medicare program. That program has to be revamped because it is COSTING THE GOVERMENT TOOO MUCH.. You?re over simplifying the issue.

PKing

 

[dmcowen674]

Will never happen, the Rich and Republicans will never give up things that separate them from the poor.

The only way it MAY happen is if there are Rich Hospitals and Poor Hospitals.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: PKing1977
ever think about the fact that increasing the number of people on the program would create more work and increase the about it costs.. Thus, more overhead. I would bet that the private health care providers have an increased amount of overhead for a reason. Also, people only pay a fraction of total health care cost. Just because something comes out of your paycheck each month does not mean your paying for the whole bill. Where is that money going to come from? It will cost the taxpayers a huge amount. Look at Tencare that is an expanded Medicare program. That program has to be revamped because it is COSTING THE GOVERMENT TOOO MUCH.. You?re over simplifying the issue.

PKing

Sigh. That's bunk. Yes more people will raise administrative costs. But the per person cost should go down due to efficiency of scale.
And you would lose your bet about private health care having increased per person administrative costs when they get more subscribers. It goes DOWN.
Your argument is completly erroneous. An analogy would be that Walmarts per customer costs go up the more customers they get. They go down.
Medicare costs the government NOTHING. And this idea would cost the government NOTHING.
What it would do is lower the administrative costs of providing health care to the 2 percent Medicare uses. NOT the up to 30 percent private companies spend.

 

[PKing1977]

If it costs nothing, then explain to me why Tennessee is having a very hard time funding Tenncare?

PKing

 

[Legend]

Sure, but anyone that is in such a program has to pay taxes for junk food. That's how we'll pay for it. Make the people that generally cause the health problems to pay for it.

My problem with Democrat's universal health care is not universal healthcare in itself. But that we would be throwing billions of dollars to drug prescriptions (ie advertising, and a little research) that are needed all the time to "fix" the problem. So many problems could be avoided entirely by improving diet and exercise. So, I support universal healthcare, but in society that is as healthy as possible by personal efforts. Because we don't live in such a society where so many problems are self inflicted, make the people that cause the most problems pay the most.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: Legend
Sure, but anyone that is in such a program has to pay taxes for junk food. That's how we'll pay for it. Make the people that generally cause the health problems to pay for it.

My problem with Democrat's universal health care is not universal healthcare in itself. But that we would be throwing billions of dollars to drug prescriptions (ie advertising, and a little research) that are needed all the time to "fix" the problem. So many problems could be avoided entirely by improving diet and exercise. So, I support universal healthcare, but in society that is as healthy as possible by personal efforts. Because we don't live in such a society where so many problems are self inflicted, make the people that cause the most problems pay the most.

Agreed.
However I suspect this "Medicare for all" idea isn't so much about finding a real idea on how to improve overall healthcare, it looks to me like a backdoor way of introducing Government run Socialized Healthcare. Sorry, but the Government has no business being in that business. Even Medicare/Medicaid should be privately run organizations in my view. The government is charged with general welfare, not indivicual's healthcare. Mainly it's just supposed to provide the atmosphere of well being and allow for such things as healthcare - not actually run it. But that's my view vs a socialist's view as I want less Government control of individual's lives.

 

[PKing1977]

I do not feel that a goverment run health care system would be bad. However, people need to be honest about the costs of such a system. Techs claim that it will cost nothing is abserd. If Tenncare is not fixed, the expanded health care system will cost a bit more then 50% of the states budget. How can you explain that cost to the claim "it will cost the goverment nothing"

PKing

 

[zendari]

Medicare for none? What does it have, some $75 trillion in liabilities?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I don't think some limited form of universal health care is a bad idea, but letting the folks at medicare run things is a mistake.

What they do is pass along the costs to the private sector.

Want some diabetes test strips?
Have your doctor fill out a prescription and take it to the pharmacy? Well no.

They have to fill out the paperwork, and issue a WRITTEN prescription with lots of special stuff then take it to the pharmacy. The pharmacist hopes that the patient has gotten all their things in order, or he or she may not get paid. They jump through all the hoops and submit the claim. Well it doesn't go through because something wasn't quite up to regs. So the pharmacist spends an expensive half hour trying to get this fixed. Ok that's done. Next time John Doe comes in for a refill, but now the doc told him to test four times a day, not two. Oops, he's a type II diabetic. Regs have special procedures. Back to the doc for him! Now the pharmacist can fight with medicare for the change in testing. Good luck.

And this is for a box of strips. The cost of getting everything paid for can exceed the price of the strips. It's crazy. And these people should take charge of health care? No thanks. They administer by regulation, and good luck with conforming. All that time isn't free, it's just free for medicare.

 

[techs]

see below

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: PKing1977
If it costs nothing, then explain to me why Tennessee is having a very hard time funding Tenncare?

PKing

I don't know what Tenncare is. Nor do I care. Its not Medicare which I am talking about. Individuals and companies merely get the option to purchase Medicare with its amazingly how overhead versus high overhead private plans.

The purpose in opening up Medicare to all who want to purchase it is to force private insurers to compete. Private insurers have siphoned off billions each year to pay for overhead that is not necessary. Private insurers increase their profit by denying benefits not by any form of efficiencey (ok, some small efficiencies like putting pre-authorization into going to the ER) but by denying care.
Private insurers cannot negotiate effectively with hospitals and doctors due to their relatively small size. Medicare can and does.

I know of which I speak as a former administrator at a small healthcare company and upper level management at a large health care company (2 million subsribers)

 

[PKing1977]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: PKing1977
If it costs nothing, then explain to me why Tennessee is having a very hard time funding Tenncare?

PKing

I don't know what Tenncare is. Nor do I care. Its not Medicare which I am talking about. Individuals and companies merely get the option to purchase Medicare with its amazingly how overhead versus high overhead private plans.

The purpose in opening up Medicare to all who want to purchase it is to force private insurers to compete. Private insurers have siphoned off billions each year to pay for overhead that is not necessary. Private insurers increase their profit by denying benefits not by any form of efficiencey (ok, some small efficiencies like putting pre-authorization into going to the ER) but by denying care.
Private insurers cannot negotiate effectively with hospitals and doctors due to their relatively small size. Medicare can and does.

I know of which I speak as a former administrator at a small healthcare company and upper level management at a large health care company (2 million subsribers)

Tenncare is an expantion of Medicare that is state funded, but I guess you do not care because it is the very type of plan you want. For "knowing" what you are talking about, you really simplify the issue greatly. But I guess you dont care about that either.

PKing

 

[imported_Condor]

Once again, the solution is in revamping the way we do medicine, not in just finding another pocket to take the money from.

Believe me, bad management can abosrb all the money you can put into it. That is what has to be fixed.

 

[Pabster]

Perhaps read up on the Medicare crisis. It makes the Social Security crisis look petty in comparison (when looking at the $ involved.)

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: techs
Caught this on a t.v. show. How about making Medicare available to all Americans? Medicare has the lowest administrative costs of any health insurance program.
It wouldn't cost the taxpayers a penny and would enable individuals and companies to get the most health care coverage for their dollar.

Eh? Have you seen the projections for this program? It may have the lowest administrative costs but it certainly isnt cheap and dwarfs SS.

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: techs
Caught this on a t.v. show. How about making Medicare available to all Americans? Medicare has the lowest administrative costs of any health insurance program.
It wouldn't cost the taxpayers a penny and would enable individuals and companies to get the most health care coverage for their dollar.

Eh? Have you seen the projections for this program? It may have the lowest administrative costs but it certainly isnt cheap and dwarfs SS.

Well, I think the point was that people would no long er be paying private premiums so (given that medicare is more effeicient) their taxes to cover their participation would be less than what thier healtcare premiums use to be.

I would agree this oversimplifies a bit. As I understand it, the problem with Tennicare is that its using taxpayer money to provide health care to poor people (people that can't pay.) I think the idea from west wing last night was a little different. The idea was to allow people to up thier taxes (not a free ride for the poor like tennicare is) and thus get rid of thier private insuarnce if they want. The idea was to lower costs of healthcare for those currently using private health care plans, NOT have the tax payers pay for more people to get health care for free which is what tennicare does.

 

[imported_tss4]

Also, the more I think about it, there would need to be about 4 things neccesary to allow medicare to compete with private insurace.

1. No money from the general tax fund can be used for it. In other words, what ever the tax rate is for medicare that person pays to be in the porgram, should be their only operating funds. If the fed adds money from the general fund, its cheating and equates to giving money to one private insurer over the other.

2. The program should be required to NOT run a defecit.

3. Any susplus should be locked away from being spent by the general government.

4. Any hospital or medical provider can choose not to accept medicare.

If these conditions were met, then it would be acting as a fair source of competition for private insurers.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: techs
Caught this on a t.v. show. How about making Medicare available to all Americans? Medicare has the lowest administrative costs of any health insurance program.
It wouldn't cost the taxpayers a penny and would enable individuals and companies to get the most health care coverage for their dollar.

Eh? Have you seen the projections for this program? It may have the lowest administrative costs but it certainly isnt cheap and dwarfs SS.

Well, I think the point was that people would no long er be paying private premiums so (given that medicare is more effeicient) their taxes to cover their participation would be less than what thier healtcare premiums use to be.

I would agree this oversimplifies a bit. As I understand it, the problem with Tennicare is that its using taxpayer money to provide health care to poor people (people that can't pay.) I think the idea from west wing last night was a little different. The idea was to allow people to up thier taxes (not a free ride for the poor like tennicare is) and thus get rid of thier private insuarnce if they want. The idea was to lower costs of healthcare for those currently using private health care plans, NOT have the tax payers pay for more people to get health care for free which is what tennicare does.

Most people who recieve medical insurance through their employers never see the true costs and thus arent paying for it. You will need to increase taxes to pay for this program. This will take more money from your avg workers pocket. The employers wont care and they wont be giving you the money they used to pay medical insurance with.

The cost is shifted from corporations to individuals via a tax.

Right now the program is on a crash course with destiny just like SS.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

I agree in principle with Hayabusa Rider. A universal healthcare system that's well-designed and focused on keeping people healthy, economies of scale, and improving the quality of care delivered is a great idea.

Simply changing Medicare eligibility to include all Americans is just plain dumb. While it's true that administrative costs are low compared to private plans, Medicare is fundamentally just a system of third-party payment. Our primary problem with healthcare isn't how we pay for it (granted that is a problem). Our primary problems:
1) fat, sedentary population
2) cigarette use
3) alcohol use
4) aging population
5) profit motive favors expensive care not quality (or appropriate) care
6) medical model is appropriate for treating (and rarely curing) health conditions but isn't compatible with healthcare maintenance . . . ie prevention of disease

 

[Train]

Ever notice medicare is taken out of EVERYONES paycheck (its on mine thats for sure) but how many of us here get medicare? Anyone, anyone?

Think about that, everyone pays into it, only a few people get the benifits. Think how much it would have to increase to pay for everyone. We're talking about 5 or 6 fold. now look at your monthly contributions, multiply by 5, and which is cheaper? Your medicare, or your private insurance? I know my company pays $400-450 per person on avg for a pretty good plan, medicare (which is crap) would cost more.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: techs
Caught this on a t.v. show. How about making Medicare available to all Americans? Medicare has the lowest administrative costs of any health insurance program.
It wouldn't cost the taxpayers a penny and would enable individuals and companies to get the most health care coverage for their dollar.

Eh? Have you seen the projections for this program? It may have the lowest administrative costs but it certainly isnt cheap and dwarfs SS.

Well, I think the point was that people would no long er be paying private premiums so (given that medicare is more effeicient) their taxes to cover their participation would be less than what thier healtcare premiums use to be.

I would agree this oversimplifies a bit. As I understand it, the problem with Tennicare is that its using taxpayer money to provide health care to poor people (people that can't pay.) I think the idea from west wing last night was a little different. The idea was to allow people to up thier taxes (not a free ride for the poor like tennicare is) and thus get rid of thier private insuarnce if they want. The idea was to lower costs of healthcare for those currently using private health care plans, NOT have the tax payers pay for more people to get health care for free which is what tennicare does.

The OP came from something on the West Wing? :roll: Talk about living in an alterworld.

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: techs
Caught this on a t.v. show. How about making Medicare available to all Americans? Medicare has the lowest administrative costs of any health insurance program.
It wouldn't cost the taxpayers a penny and would enable individuals and companies to get the most health care coverage for their dollar.

Eh? Have you seen the projections for this program? It may have the lowest administrative costs but it certainly isnt cheap and dwarfs SS.

Well, I think the point was that people would no long er be paying private premiums so (given that medicare is more effeicient) their taxes to cover their participation would be less than what thier healtcare premiums use to be.

I would agree this oversimplifies a bit. As I understand it, the problem with Tennicare is that its using taxpayer money to provide health care to poor people (people that can't pay.) I think the idea from west wing last night was a little different. The idea was to allow people to up thier taxes (not a free ride for the poor like tennicare is) and thus get rid of thier private insuarnce if they want. The idea was to lower costs of healthcare for those currently using private health care plans, NOT have the tax payers pay for more people to get health care for free which is what tennicare does.

The OP came from something on the West Wing? :roll: Talk about living in an alterworld.

lol, you actually should have watched the episode. Like I said in the other thread, they have done a much better job portraying the repubs this time around. Alan Alda made a great case to defend the republicans decision not to allow imports of drugs form canada, how to deal with african poverty, why tax cuts were good (he likened it to starving the bureacracy to reduce spending), CAFTA, etc. I actually, think you would have enjoyed and would be using some of thier points in future debates on this forum. So don't be so negative all the time.