Melania Trump Plagiarized Her Convention Speech From Michelle Obama

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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,512
4,607
136
Bullshit.

Again, could care less that she copied or someone in Trump's staff copied parts of it. Like I said, it happens.

But when given the chance to own up to it then lying about it, it's a problem.

She should have said the speech was written for me (Which is clearly the truth) and we are going to get down to the bottom of this.... that's honesty and integrity. I know... foreign words...

I understand what you are saying about the Honesty and integrity and I'll agree with you. But in this context ( nominee's wife's speech ) it is a silly little thing and I don't understand what all the big deal is about a couple of three phrases that have commonly been used by many people. This is just splitting hairs.

All in all I thought it was a very good speech, even with her accent.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,512
4,607
136
I couldn't resist. The point is Trump & his handlers have allowed a completely forgivable mistake to fester. I know its hard for Trump but a simple apology or acknowledgement that a mistake happened and its over. That's the whole point.

The only thing making this fester is all the wringing of hands of democrats making a big deal over a few commonly used phrases. They are so common that we could also say that Michelle Obama also plagerized them....
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
The only thing making this fester is all the wringing of hands of democrats making a big deal over a few commonly used phrases. They are so common that we could also say that Michelle Obama also plagerized them....

Denying reality won't make reality go away... Deal with it.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,512
4,607
136
Hahahaha, this is comedy GOLD coming from you.

Email abuse indictment will happen any day right?

No actually it won't. I've never claimed that it would. I am of the opinion that it should however.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
So you are presented with an in depth analysis of the actual truthfulness of each candidate, which clearly shows that most of what comes out of Trumps mouth is an outright lie, and you just swat it aside in favor of polling numbers? You do know what TRUTH means dont you? How many people choose to believe it is irrelevant.

There is no equivalency here. Most of Hillary's statements are true, and most of Trump's are false. That is a simple fact. Now the next step in your playbook is of course to attack the people doing the analysis, but you wont find any reputable group claiming to be political "fact checkers" that would disagree with this analysis.

Lying is a process that's very little understood by the public for whatever reason. Here's a brief explanation of how it works from first principles:

First, humans don't speak to "talk truth", as if we possess some collection of facts and communication were an interchange of these nuggets. More pointedly, speech is largely a mechanism to convince others to align with our interests through building rapport, making an argument, etc.

Second, given that, politicians are speaking to convince peeps of their own suitability as their representative. The words they choose are tools useful towards that self-interested end, and those words might include promises of virtues such as honesty.

Third, that rapport building is implemented here as identifying with the electorate, thus said virtues coincide with how the electorate sees itself, ostensibly as "honest" folk.

Fourth, to reinforce 1-3, notice from #1 though that folks aren't truly honest, not nearly to the same degree as they believe their speech is used for. So really, this is more of game everyone incl. the politician plays, whereby everyone tries to convince everyone else of their virtues like honesty to advance interests. Thus "honesty" is pretty open to interpretation.

In sum, the degree that a person/politician can deviate from truth while maintain plausibility of those claims depends largely on the audience, ie their interpretation of what honest is. In Clinton's case, the centrist plays off conflicting constituent interests with careful wording designed to please everyone more than it displeases in aggregate. A weary political audience has some basic grasp that politicians use wording to maintain that plausibility, and realistically hopes to tip the scales to their favor. She has trouble for example with idealists who presumably see all career politicians as great liars. Then of course there's conservatives who naturally see everyone else as "liars". This is all pretty par for course in human behavior.

In contrast trump's main audience for the most part don't really care about the actual factuality of what's been said, because their interpretation of "honest" is more like "loyal", and trump's their guy. Thus facts surround the wall, like whether it's even going to be built, as such are inconsequential. The key problem here is that Trump is in reality more the opposite of loyal, and as a born capitalist salesman is more than willing to auction some plebs to his counterparts downstream.

It's this disassociation which is particularly troublesome in politics, and trump is only the natural conclusion to a process designed to break down the importance of facts to honesty. You can see the same in british politics where much of the public were evidently "sick of the experts", so pleaded loyalty to idiots.

To be fair to conservatives, Obama has much of the same opportunist tendencies like appealing to progressives as "their guy", but fortunately only turned out to be a centrist as he sometimes claimed, too. With Trump, who the hell knows, the guy doesn't seem to have much competence other than lying to the plebs.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
LMAO!!!! Average Americans could care less about this speech, only political hacks give a damn.

EXCUSE ME but didn't Fox News run a month with the accusation Michelle Obama used "whitey" in a speech.

You guys care when you want to.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
No actually it won't. I've never claimed that it would. I am of the opinion that it should however.

On a side note, people flustered over the email thing simply don't understand how criminal justice works. Central to the idea of a crime is mens rea in addition to actus reus, the act itself. There's no evidence that clinton had any treasonous intent, without which any prosecution was going to be untenable.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
I wouldn't know, I don't watch Fox. It appears that you do though, more than likely every day.

You don't have to watch them every day to know what they are up to.

I'm familiar with the Roger Ailes story even though Fox is not covering.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
ABC News Nightline just did a short interview with Ivanka and if Donald was able to be more like her or speak like her, he would be much more likeable. The speech from Trump Jr. was much more receptive by listeners per ABC News.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81
The points of discussion are like what 3 small common phrases that were used even before Michelle Obama used them... So actually she also plagerized those phrases.

Much ado about Nothing....

She gave an excellent speech. 99.999% which was Not "Plagerized".
Um, not quite.

Melania's speech ran 14 minutes and 35 seconds, or 875 seconds. The plagiarized parts ran 40 seconds. So 835 seconds, or 95.43%, was "not plagiarized." That we know of.
 

positivedoppler

Golden Member
Apr 30, 2012
1,112
174
106
I don't care much for Clinton nor Trump, but this entire thing is blown out of proportion and ridiculous. If we're going to judge Trump base on the ethics of his wife's speech, lets bring back what Hillary Clinton's spouse has done in the past. Her spouse cheated on her with BJs from who knows how many women while lying to the country "I did not have ...."

If the character of the spouse is in question...don't forget to look at slick Willy. But at the end of the day both should be irrelevant.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
I don't care much for Clinton nor Trump, but this entire thing is blown out of proportion and ridiculous. If we're going to judge Trump base on the ethics of his wife's speech, lets bring back what Hillary Clinton's spouse has done in the past. Her spouse cheated on her with BJs from who knows how many women while lying to the country "I did not have ...."

If the character of the spouse is in question...don't forget to look at slick Willy. But at the end of the day both should be irrelevant.

This has nothing to do with judging Trump based on his wife's behavior. The greater issue here is that his campaign denies the plagiarism even though it is quite obvious. And not just this - it's a pattern with the Trump campaign. Like that reporter who said his campaign manager grabbed her arm too hard. It was an accusation of very minor misconduct, but they denied it anyway. Because that is what Trump does - he denies every single accusation of wrong doing, no matter what it is.
 

DrDoug

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2014
3,579
1,629
136
I don't care much for Clinton nor Trump, but this entire thing is blown out of proportion and ridiculous. If we're going to judge Trump base on the ethics of his wife's speech, lets bring back what Hillary Clinton's spouse has done in the past. Her spouse cheated on her with BJs from who knows how many women while lying to the country "I did not have ...."

If the character of the spouse is in question...don't forget to look at slick Willy. But at the end of the day both should be irrelevant.

I'm sure that Bill and his issues are pretty well known to most voters by now and this is a new, current issue with the Republican candidate's wife. Hillary has been running along with her hubby's baggage (along with her own) so it's only fair for Melania's plagiarism and her followup lying about the words being of her own composition being called for the bullshit it is.

It's not irrelevant, Bill's boldfaced lying then or her boldfaced lying now, nor should it ever be.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,512
4,607
136
On a side note, people flustered over the email thing simply don't understand how criminal justice works. Central to the idea of a crime is mens rea in addition to actus reus, the act itself. There's no evidence that clinton had any treasonous intent, without which any prosecution was going to be untenable.

That is simply not true.

Patreus had no treasonous intent...
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,512
4,607
136
Um, not quite.

Melania's speech ran 14 minutes and 35 seconds, or 875 seconds. The plagiarized parts ran 40 seconds. So 835 seconds, or 95.43%, was "not plagiarized." That we know of.

Well split a hair.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,512
4,607
136
This has nothing to do with judging Trump based on his wife's behavior. The greater issue here is that his campaign denies the plagiarism even though it is quite obvious. And not just this - it's a pattern with the Trump campaign. Like that reporter who said his campaign manager grabbed her arm too hard. It was an accusation of very minor misconduct, but they denied it anyway. Because that is what Trump does - he denies every single accusation of wrong doing, no matter what it is.

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman".
 
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