Melania Trump Plagiarized Her Convention Speech From Michelle Obama

[Perknose]

Look up the definition of trilingual: ability to speak 3 languages fluently.
Look up the percentage of the world's population that is trilingual: 13%.

Or maybe the people who determined that 13% of people are trilingual aren't fluent enough in English to understand what trilingual means.

http://ilanguages.org/bilingual.php

I've lived in the same domicile with trilingual and multilingual people. LIVED WITH THEM. And we have had extensive conversations about the depth of their abilities to be simultaneously fluent in more than one language.

Every single one, without exception, admitted that while being simultaneously fluent in two languages was easily possible in the right circumstances, being truly fluent in three or more simultaneously was far, far more of a stretch.

Sure, they could seem fluent for bursts of 4-5 minutes or so, they would say, and could carry on convos of a certain level all day long, getting better as they went, but that it really was a kind of "use it or lose (some of) it" proposition as to true fluency . . . like muscles.

They ALL said the ability was latent and could be recovered in time, but that if you hadn't been using a language for awhile, it really wasn't all there, in true depth and on the tip of your tongue, from the get go.

Analogy alert: Suppose you were an Olympic swimmer and a professional basketball player, "fluent" in both. Suppose it's off season for the NBA. Sure, you could go dazzle at a local court, but it takes any athlete time to get into game shape. And sure, you could beat all the others at the local pool, but if not in current training, you'd never be at peak form.

Now, add a third sport in there, DrPizza. How simultaneously proficient would you be?

This is what I'm saying, and what other people who spoke multiple languages have told me, in depth, as we discussed that difficulty.

 

[Perknose]

Most sources indicate that the average American is fluent in English by the age of 12 or so.

In your reply, you made use of the word "articulately" as a condition of fluency. If you really consider the average American (Tom, as a math guy with a no doubt keen understanding of the discipline of statistics, did you mean "most" Americans? ) to be fluent, and therefore articulate in English at the age of 12 or even 22, 42 or 72, then you and I disagree on what it means to be fluent.

Put aside the degraded dialects spoken in the inner cities and elsewhere and simply focus on the rampant butchery of our grammar and syntax combined with the constricted vocabulary wherein not uncommon English words are misused or not understood at all as routinely evidenced by actual college graduates. (We won't even talk about the sad state of reading comprehension.)

This constitutes fluency for you? Ok. We define the term differently. For me, this constitutes a working knowledge of the language, not fluency.

So, yeah, sure, if the ability to converse about the weather or sports and otherwise make your needs and desires and basic thoughts known in rough enough form to be understand and be understood even through your mistakes constitutes fluency for you, then, hey, I'm multilingual, mang, and so is Melania.

Except, I'm not.

And I kind of suspect she is not, either. Just like she's not really a college graduate, and is exaggerating her one year in college there, too.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Uhmmm, no she didn't. Did you even watch your own video?

Just stop digging, it's embarrassing.

14:08!!!

 

[Perknose]

14:08!!!

That was a "Nazi To See You" salute, the standard salute of the National Socialist Politeness Party, a group that wants to make sure everyone has a "heil" of a good time!

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

That was a "Nazi To See You" salute, the standard salute of the National Socialist Politeness Party, a group that wants to make sure everyone has a "heil" of a good time!

lol :thumbsup:

 

[TheGardener]

No, there are not. You, the press, and seemingly most everyone else have zero idea what constitutes "fluency" in a language. As I said before, it is quite difficult to be simultaneously fluent in just two languages, let alone 3 or more.

People may have some working knowledge, to various degrees, of multiple languages, but nothing even approaching true fluency.

To be truly fluent in just one language is almost a lifelong task. In two? Use both or recede in one. In more? You'd have to continually speak all those languages every single day to achieve and remain fluent. There aren't enough hours in the day.

By your standard, I would be able to say that I'm "fluent" in German, French, Spanish, Greek and English, because in my life I have held extended conversations with natives in each of them. I'M NOT. Not even close.

Enough with this bullshit. I'd love to see someone approach Melania and try to engage her in French. It's just like the college degree she claims she has but doesn't. Fluent in five languages my ass.

According to Merriam-Webster dictionary the definition of fluency is "the ability to speak easily and smoothly; especially : the ability to speak a foreign language easily and effectively".

While I'm not criticizing you for having very high standards on the fluency of languages, it doesn't match up the real world's view and expectation. You yourself admit that "most everyone else have zero idea what constitutes "fluency" in a language.

Based on the real world definition, it is quite possible that Melania is fluent in five languages. I have no personal knowledge, but I don't doubt her. I think that you are tilting at windmills here.

 

[Zaap]

I've lived in the same domicile with trilingual and multilingual people. LIVED WITH THEM. And we have had extensive conversations about the depth of their abilities to be simultaneously fluent in more than one language.

Every single one, without exception, admitted that while being simultaneously fluent in two languages was easily possible in the right circumstances, being truly fluent in three or more simultaneously was far, far more of a stretch.

Sure, they could seem fluent for bursts of 4-5 minutes or so, they would say, and could carry on convos of a certain level all day long, getting better as they went, but that it really was a kind of "use it or lose (some of) it" proposition as to true fluency . . . like muscles.

Sorry but I think you're being overly pedantic about this just to have a needless gripe at Melania. Just because one of several languages a person knows isn't recalled as much as others doesn't make them unable to claim fluency in that language.

Did Trump make the claim that Melania is fluent in 5 languages by speaking all 5 constantly to 5 different people or something?

She obviously speak her native (Slovakian?) and English. As once agsin it was a communist regime, she may well have had to learn Russian alongside the native tongue. She lived in Milan, I don't see why it'd be far fetched that she speaks Italian. I know several people who speak Italian that also speak French and Spanish as I've heard all 3 languages are similar enough that people can learn and speak all 3.

I have no idea if she speaks 5 languages or not, but claiming she can't possibly without any real proof seems like a really needless gripe. There's plenty to goof on the Trumps for without just speculating and making up stuff, or coming up with meaningless definitions of what's required to claim fluency in a language as most people would understand and credit it.

 

[Perknose]

n/m

 

[runzwithsizorz]

Uhmmm, no she didn't. Did you even watch your own video?

Just stop digging, it's embarrassing.

WHOOSH! Right over your head. So just who the hell is really digging here?
Look, I'm no real Trump fanboy, and with all the soft white underbelly targets exposed by him, and his supporters, why do those on the left continually make themselves look stupid with this kind of crap? Wanna defeat Trump? Do so with with facts, and reasoned debate. Plagiarism, nazi salutes, etc, make you look silly.

 

[ivwshane]

WHOOSH! Right over your head. So just who the hell is really digging here?
Look, I'm no real Trump fanboy, and with all the soft white underbelly targets exposed by him, and his supporters, why do those on the left continually make themselves look stupid with this kind of crap? Wanna defeat Trump? Do so with with facts, and reasoned debate. Plagiarism, nazi salutes, etc, make you look silly.

I've never seen a trump supporter change their mind when facts were provided, have you? If you can't beat them, join them in their mindless low information shit spewing.

 

[fskimospy]

WHOOSH! Right over your head. So just who the hell is really digging here?
Look, I'm no real Trump fanboy, and with all the soft white underbelly targets exposed by him, and his supporters, why do those on the left continually make themselves look stupid with this kind of crap? Wanna defeat Trump? Do so with with facts, and reasoned debate. Plagiarism, nazi salutes, etc, make you look silly.

I sincerely doubt anyone actually believe Ingraham was intending to give a fascist salute, it's just funny that she did. Instead of just laughing and moving on, we have people trying to claim it didn't happen despite the video incredibly obviously showing it.

The only people who are looking stupid are those who are trying to defend or deny it. They are embarrassing themselves.

As for your advice on how to beat Trump, that's pretty silly too. The 'reasoned debate' has already happened. The man is obviously manifestly unqualified for the office, has basically no understanding of government or economics, and has showed no desire to learn. That's all that needs to be said. American politics has never run on reasoned debate though and it's not about to start.

If anything, treating his policies as serious ones to debate against gives him more credit than he is due. No thanks!

 

[fskimospy]

I've never seen a trump supporter change their mind when facts were provided, have you? If you can't beat them, join them in their mindless low information shit spewing.

Apparently people who are currently attracted to a candidate because he rants and screams about how Mexican immigrants are rapists will be won over if you just point out that his tax plan makes no sense.

lol.

 

[Zaap]

No, there are not. You, the press, and seemingly most everyone else have zero idea what constitutes "fluency" in a language. As I said before, it is quite difficult to be simultaneously fluent in just two languages, let alone 3 or more.

Did you not say this? It is not 'quite dificult' by any stretch to be fluent in 2 languages. You were simply making that up to put emphasis on language being a 'dificult' thing.

Enough with this bullshit. I'd love to see someone approach Melania and try to engage her in French. It's just like the college degree she claims she has but doesn't. Fluent in five languages my ass.

Fine so this is your 'fluent' way of saying you suspect she can't speak 5 languages. After making what I'd consider a totally false statement of just 2 languages, sounds like your ass is pretty convinced 5 is damn near impossible.

Seeing as she's modeled and done work in Paris, its possible....juuuuust possible someone might have approached her speaking French. I have no knowledge personally if she speaks French, but seems a really silly thing to be so insistent (oops, sorry.... so suspecting...) she can't without proof.

I don't even like the Trumps I think they're dipshits trolling everyone, but this language argument is a silly one to me.

 

[agent00f]

I've lived in the same domicile with trilingual and multilingual people. LIVED WITH THEM. And we have had extensive conversations about the depth of their abilities to be simultaneously fluent in more than one language.

Every single one, without exception, admitted that while being simultaneously fluent in two languages was easily possible in the right circumstances, being truly fluent in three or more simultaneously was far, far more of a stretch.

Sure, they could seem fluent for bursts of 4-5 minutes or so, they would say, and could carry on convos of a certain level all day long, getting better as they went, but that it really was a kind of "use it or lose (some of) it" proposition as to true fluency . . . like muscles.

They ALL said the ability was latent and could be recovered in time, but that if you hadn't been using a language for awhile, it really wasn't all there, in true depth and on the tip of your tongue, from the get go.

Analogy alert: Suppose you were an Olympic swimmer and a professional basketball player, "fluent" in both. Suppose it's off season for the NBA. Sure, you could go dazzle at a local court, but it takes any athlete time to get into game shape. And sure, you could beat all the others at the local pool, but if not in current training, you'd never be at peak form.

Now, add a third sport in there, DrPizza. How simultaneously proficient would you be?

This is what I'm saying, and what other people who spoke multiple languages have told me, in depth, as we discussed that difficulty.

The term you might be looking for is native, as in can reasonably pass for a local/peer on some subject, in contrast to the natives impressed that a foreigner can speak so well.

According to Merriam-Webster dictionary the definition of fluency is "the ability to speak easily and smoothly; especially : the ability to speak a foreign language easily and effectively".

While I'm not criticizing you for having very high standards on the fluency of languages, it doesn't match up the real world's view and expectation. You yourself admit that "most everyone else have zero idea what constitutes "fluency" in a language.

Based on the real world definition, it is quite possible that Melania is fluent in five languages. I have no personal knowledge, but I don't doubt her. I think that you are tilting at windmills here.

She's really not that fluent in english, and it's what she speaks everyday. Though I'm sure Trump & zaap both believe she can test higher than college grads in it.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Yes. In fact she does it, then realizes that she did it and changed it abruptly.

That's what I noticed as well.

 

[Victorian Gray]

My God you're right...she did it a CPAC too!!! I'm now convinced that she really is all about nazi salutes!!! Thanks for opening my lying eyes!!!

14:08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iIchSdslGo

Not even close to similar.

 

[runzwithsizorz]

I've never seen a trump supporter change their mind when facts were provided, have you? If you can't beat them, join them in their mindless low information shit spewing.

We have the facts on Hillary, show me your facts on Trump.

 

[ivwshane]

We have the facts on Hillary, show me your facts on Trump.

What are your facts on Hillary and what facts on trump would you like?

 

[Perknose]

Did you not say this? It is not 'quite dificult [sic]' by any stretch to be fluent in 2 languages. You were simply making that up to put emphasis on language being a 'dificult[sic]' thing.

SIMULTANEOUSLY! Did you miss that part, leave it out deliberately, or just not understand it central importance to what I said?

Fine so this is your 'fluent' way of saying you suspect she can't speak 5 languages. After making what I'd consider a totally false statement of just 2 languages, sounds like your ass is pretty convinced 5 is damn near impossible.

I never said she can't SPEAK (parts of, to various degrees) 5 languages. I said I truly doubt that she's FLUENT, even by your degraded standards for fluency, in 5.

This is why I need to be done interacting with you. You are either too STUPID to make this basic distinction, too LAZY to notice it, or simply arguing in bad faith.

... if she speaks French, but seems a really silly thing to be so insistent (oops, sorry.... so suspecting...) she can't without proof.

Again and again and again, you make this same basic mistake between "speaks" (to whatever extent) and FLUENT. I will simply have to accept that you're that dimwitted, because otherwise you're just being dishonest.

Abilities in any one language simply recede with disuse. THAT'S WHY it's difficult to be truly fluent, even in two languages SIMULTANEOUSLY unless you speak both daily, and WHY the ability to be SIMULTANEOUSLY fluent in three is even harder.

Don't believe me? I'll just leave you with this, a small sentence in an otherwise adoring puff piece about Melania:

Slovenian television station reported resentfully that she had forgotten Slovenian after asking to do an interview in English.

That's her mother tongue! If there's any language besides the English she now speaks in which she would be FLUENT it would be Slovenian, yet it seems she couldn't handle a simple interview in it even when not being able to do so caused obvious, immediate resentment!

It supports what my multilingual friends admitted about the barriers to being simultaneously FLUENT in several languages, no matter having ever achieved true fluency in 5.

A more succinct analogy than the one I expended electrons on before: PLAYING A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT. If you don't keep your chops up, you steadily lose your proficiency. You become less, how shall I put it? FLUENT! :biggrin:

Building on that analogy, I know a ton of musicians. Many, almost all, play and own more than one instrument, many several. These are working musicians, for the most part. Yet none of them would claim to have truly mastered more than one instrument, at most and only "sort of", some of them might claim two.

So, yeah, I do suspect that her claim that she's FLUENT in 5 languages is a yuuuuuge stretch of the reality of her situation, just like her claim that she graduated college is an absolute stretch of the truth.

 

[runzwithsizorz]

What are your facts on Hillary and what facts on trump would you like?

Here is just a small fraction. Trust me, I can show you a lot more! The ball is now in your court, and for goodness sake, try not to look stupid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kypl1MYuKDY

 

[rudder]

lefties.... way to much attention paid to this subject matter,,,,

http://truepundit.com/5-savage-vide...con-reagan-obama-biden-stealing-plagiarizing/

How about focusing on someone who is actually running for president?

 

[WelshBloke]

So, yeah, I do suspect that her claim that she's FLUENT in 5 languages is a yuuuuuge stretch of the reality of her situation, just like her claim that she graduated college is an absolute stretch of the truth.

Being fluent in a language is a specific thing. It's not being able to order a beer or have a conversation in that language. Very few people are fluent in more that two languages.

Being able to speak several languages well enough to get by is impressive enough as it is. There's no need for her (or her team) to big it up.

 

[Perknose]

lefties.... way to much attention paid to this subject matter,,,,

http://truepundit.com/5-savage-vide...con-reagan-obama-biden-stealing-plagiarizing/

How about focusing on someone who is actually running for president?

Your link, FFS. That's not Hilary plagiarizing anything from Reagan, you idiot. That's Hilary telling the same stupid joke that both she and Reagan "plagarized" from Shecky Green or some other Borscht Belt comedian.

Retelling the same joke that RR also retold is NOT Hilary plagiarizing him.

 

[ivwshane]

Here is just a small fraction. Trust me, I can show you a lot more! The ball is now in your court, and for goodness sake, try not to look stupid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kypl1MYuKDY

If you can't articulate your thoughts and can only provide YouTube links then you aren't worth the time. Are you capable of writing what it is you are talking about?

 

[SP33Demon]

Amazing you idiot libs are still talking about this. Trump is a genius.