Mental health is a real problem

[xaeniac]

agreed.... this posting is so spot on. The mental institution or lack there of in this country are a problem. Guess there is not money to be made on helping others? Or is it easier to treat other diseases. Regardless there is a problem.

 

[interchange]

Well, I'm a psychiatrist so obviously I agree with the critical lack of appropriate attention to mental health and complex relationship with society. I'm glad that this thread really hasn't treaded into the territory of equating mental illness to violent potential as was the impetus to talk about the topic. Violence is important with a minority of mental health treatment.

I will stay out of the politics here, but I do want to say that deinstitutionalization was in part motivated by a background of significant human rights problems in mental institutions. This is not to say that we have a good system for treatment of mental illness. We don't. But institutionalization was not a good system either, though more effective at keeping severe mental illness out of view.

 

[darkswordsman17]

You know, I've been thinking that, with automation making human work in a lot of areas less and less necessary, that there's questions about what people will do for work. I have a simple solution. Setup a public system to pay people to be part of scientific research by providing data. Obviously yes we'll need to create a strong privacy protection system (find a way to anonymize things as much as possible, and be very strict in allowing access to the data), but we also need to figure out how to get reliable honest data (meaning we can't just take people at their word). But it will help us monumentally in advancing science knowledge. We're already trying to do that, but so much of the studies rely on self-reporting, and other factors (for instance, right now, going out of your way to be part of a study will require action on your part that will potentially - I'd even say likely - change your behavior, which will screw up the results, especially when it can't be properly accounted for), that is making it unreliable, if not outright leading to false results and conclusions. Granted, that could still happen as people would almost certainly change behavior knowing that they're feeding data, but over time people would act more normally once they get used to it. Also, they would have to prove they can maintain the strong privacy (or anonymity) control and show the data can be used for good.

Mental health is an area I think could especially be improved with more data. Even stuff like brain scans (I mentioned it in another thread about a researcher that seems to have found that brain scans can actually show psychopathy - even found out that he himself was one) could lead to more understanding. It could also help in pre-emptive care (find out what causes Alzheimer's and other degenerative brain disorders, then try and find out the sources for the causes, and then be able to work to deal with that).

Maybe tie it to a general public income (which is one of the ways being suggested for dealing with the move to automation and loss of jobs) for opt-in. Regardless, I'd say do it as a gradual transition (which is how I feel we can move to universal health care and changes in economics), and early on we start with more rudimentary/basic data that can't be tied specifically to individuals, while letting people opt in for more personal data. Once proven that the data is beneficial and isn't being misused (and with oversight and possibly further strengthening of protections), then possibly expand.

Three words.

Ronald Fucking Reagan.

Ding, ding, ding. This is why fiscal conservatives need to realize that they are fueling social issues that actually end up making the economy worse. I'd even be willing to somewhat forgive Reagan, at the time, our data/information was often lacking, and lots of things (speaking of policies) at the time seemed to make sense but did not in the real world. He showed some willingness to realize mistakes and change, even though he started out in pretty goddamned awful position to start (by that I mean his opinions, for instance how his administration reacted to AIDS; their approach to the Russians and the Cold War where Reagan was spewing apocalyptic rhetoric until he realized "oh shit, the stupid shit I've been spouting has serious consequences and actually cause nuclear war" when coupled with their actions; sadly our current President seems hell bent on making the same mistakes, but instead of realizing and changing, is doubling down on making it worse at every opportunity, which given that our knowledge and understanding far far more robust now there's absolutely no excuse for the leaders of our country to be this way).

Health care is so blatantly obviously something that the benefits outweigh the costs and lead to a much more productive society that I cannot understand people that support defense budgets using that exact reasoning, but then refuse to accept health care is the same. Considering lack of and/or poor health care is a much bigger danger to our country it should even have priority as it is more critical to the overall health of our country. Plus, healthier people would also bolster defense, as we'd have healthier people and better knowledge for how to get healthy and maintain health.

Health care is the biggest public good you can offer.

Short term, it could massively help the economy too. Health care jobs can't be outsourced much (that might change, I know they're working to provide remote doctor-patient interaction/diagnosis, but so far we're a long ways from that being realistic for anything but simple checkups), it would bolster STEM jobs and education in general (it would be a million more times likely to provide real trickle down economics than the shit policies that claim to do that), and normalizing it would also provide stability. That latter would be huge for a major crisis (regardless of the cause, but especially for epidemics or biological attacks).

You're a bigger societal problem than someone with purple hair or tattoos.

Can't like this enough.

The LACK of mental health can/is a crime in this country. Recently took a multi-week course from the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI). It was a real eye-opener. Apparently about 80% of the people locked up in this country suffer from some form of mental illness.

Bingo. Someone mentioned that "guess its not profitable to help people", well this is where the profits on this are happening. Privatizing prison then gives them extra reason to funnel as many of the mentally ill into it as they can. Unfortunately, because there's so much corruption in that, and their methods are known to just make both mental illness and criminality worse, it is actually adding fuel to the negative aspects, and not working to make it better.

It does gives us a great setup for reform. Ban private prisons, but let them convert into care facilities (with significant changes, and massive near constant objective oversight a major goal).

Well, I'm a psychiatrist so obviously I agree with the critical lack of appropriate attention to mental health and complex relationship with society. I'm glad that this thread really hasn't treaded into the territory of equating mental illness to violent potential as was the impetus to talk about the topic. Violence is important with a minority of mental health treatment.

I will stay out of the politics here, but I do want to say that deinstitutionalization was in part motivated by a background of significant human rights problems in mental institutions. This is not to say that we have a good system for treatment of mental illness. We don't. But institutionalization was not a good system either, though more effective at keeping severe mental illness out of view.

Yep. Sorry to hijack your comment to make a political statement, but that's exactly why the typical "its a mental health issue!" response that a certain side of the political spectrum has made their standard mindless response to mass shootings completely fucks things up. People suffering mental health problems are far more likely to be victims of violence than the perpetrators. Not only that, but being victims of violence is often the source of mental health issues (studies seem to indicate spankings given to children actually leads to people being more likely to have mental health issues later on, in spite of the "I was spanked and turned out perfectly fine!" people that in my experience definitely did not turn out perfectly fine). But then that side has shown a general callous disregard for actual mental health science.

With that being said, I do think making access to mental health care and support would help with regards to that stuff, but I will always call out their empty and dismissive words since they have proven that's all they are (if not when they prove just how heinously ignorant they are about mental health).

There is truth (that there was rife abuse and that was one of the things used as reasoning for shuttering facilities), although there had been a good amount of reform in the industry (certainly that's not to say it had eradicated it or there weren't still major issues, even plenty that were systemic and due to fundamental flaws in our understanding of the situations; but relative to the nightmare that mental health facilities had been like earlier in the century it was progress). However, there's also been a lot of misinformation. Shock therapy for instance actually is a legitimate method that can work (now, I can't speak to it being used properly, overused, misused, etc, but when done correctly it is not the torture that its portrayed as).

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Three words.

Ronald Fucking Reagan.

The Great Traitor?

 

[brianmanahan]

most of the people i grew up around think that mental health is not a real problem, because it is not physical so you can quit any time you want

my great aunt always agreed with me though that it's a real thing, because she'd had a few breakdowns after her little sister died and she felt like it was her fault even though it was random genetic

i don't know if i have mental problems or not, but i sure as heck wouldn't go to the doctor about it if i did. if people found out they'd ridicule me to no end.

 

[Kaido]

Well, I'm a psychiatrist

Oh the fun you must have reading this forum

 

[Grooveriding]

I feel mental health is one of the least attended specialties as far as preventative medicine, and quite likely, medicine in general. Most everyone is comfortable seeing their physician for anything that falls outside of the wheelhouse of what is going wrong in a patient's mind, as most feel that everything else is not their fault and beyond their control, while mental health issues still have a perception that it is the patient's fault. Do we tend to look shiftily at someone who tells you they have heart disease and have a few stents put in or had a bypass? Likely not. Now, how about if someone is saying they are having auditory and/or visual hallucinations? Shifty most likely.

Mental illness is real and serious, that said, I think there is a demographic out there that has a sense that life is supposed to be a gentle ride of joy and roses, and that everyone else is on that ride and they missed the boat. Life is hard and unfair, unhappiness is part of that, mental illness and unhappiness are not one and the same. Some confuse the latter for the former and wind up down a path of medications when they would have been better served seeing a therapist or counselor. Where if they are good at their job, they will let you know if you should see a psychiatrist to be assessed for any possible conditions where a medication would have suitable efficacy.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

As far as mental health, I can comfortably say (even as a libertarian conservative) that this is where capitalism ultimately fails. There is no market for mental health disorders. I mean, there may be a select few rich people who can pay for expensive treatment, but we have an opiate crisis in rural areas, do you think there will ever be treatment centers for them in waco-nowhere? Of course not, there isn't enough money to build the institution needed and to get doctors to move out to said areas.

 

[John Connor]

The parents of today are a lot less responsible than in the past in my opinion. And it won't likely get better with each generation. We let kids get away with so much and blame others first, so how do you think these kids will parent when it comes time? Recognizing this is the first step to wake parents up so they may turn it around.

Someone else also mentioned both parents now having to work, providing less attention and time to family. Rising costs caused by greedy folks have played a large part. I can confirm that just by looking at my tax bill.

Stressing over things like this, coupled with income disparities, how could there not be a breaking point for many?

Yeah, it's a culture of corruption that is the catalyst to all of this crap. I mean, you can look at, say Switzerland and you simply don't see this happening. Granted it's possible though.

For 25 cookies, can anyone guess why I mention Switzerland?

 

[John Connor]

My wife and I were having this discussion a few days ago. It's really hard to blame Reagan at this point when we had 8 years of Clinton and 8 years of Obama in the oval office and nothing was done.

Straight and to the point. Well done. Thread can now be closed.

 

[interchange]

Shock therapy for instance actually is a legitimate method that can work (now, I can't speak to it being used properly, overused, misused, etc, but when done correctly it is not the torture that its portrayed as).

ECT is still the single most effective tool psychiatrists have by a wide margin. It's not a tool for every job, but when used correctly it unequivocally saves lives.

 

[John Connor]

ECT is still the single most effective tool psychiatrists have by a wide margin. It's not a tool for every job, but when used correctly it unequivocally saves lives.

Shit... My cousin was at a mental health hospital and seen the effects of that shit. Aftermath: drooling all over yourself and semi-dead.

It seems like a very archaic method to treat people with mental helath issues. Like something from the 1930's.

Edit-

Looks like the damn thing was made in the 30's.

 

[John Connor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuo9tZJbAFw

Plenty of other case stories there too.

 

[who?]

President Kennedy got the law that provided for community mental health centers passed so that people like his lobotomized sister could stay at home and be treated locally and not be locked up far away. President Reagan just continued pushing for local mental health care.
Mental illness is the result of malfunction in the brain but the brain is very difficult to do experiments with but there are medications that can have an effect on mental illness.

 

[skull]

The parents of today are a lot less responsible than in the past in my opinion. And it won't likely get better with each generation. We let kids get away with so much and blame others first, so how do you think these kids will parent when it comes time? Recognizing this is the first step to wake parents up so they may turn it around.

Someone else also mentioned both parents now having to work, providing less attention and time to family. Rising costs caused by greedy folks have played a large part. I can confirm that just by looking at my tax bill.

Stressing over things like this, coupled with income disparities, how could there not be a breaking point for many?

The rising costs are because our country has racked up an enormous debt to other countries. The only possible way they can pay afford to pay it is to constantly pump money into the system, creating constant inflation. What I can't figure out is why everything thinks life has gotten harder. Life is easier than it ever was. If you think its bad now wait til that house of cards falls.

I think half the problem with mental health these days is diet and especially lack of sleep. People stay awake late watching tv, playing on phones, video games. Then they get up early and chug a monster to function. Do that day in day out suicide won't seem like such a bad idea after awhile.

 

[tynopik]

Apparently about 80% of the people locked up in this country suffer from some form of mental illness.

how is that different from the regular population?

 

[dud]

how is that different from the regular population?

That is a good question. I take it from your query that you are asserting that 80% of the general population is mentally ill ... and that the prison population is simply a representation of the general public?

Not sure if serious but if true then very worrisome.

 

[KeithP]

The mental institution or lack there of in this country are a problem.

And as long as pharmaceutical companies are involved it won't ever get any better.

-KeithP

 

[zinfamous]

Three words.

Ronald Fucking Reagan.

came her to post this.

 

[zinfamous]

We have Mayne, Naer, and Saltynuts posting frequently in this forum. No need to remind us that mental illness is real.

You forgot Anarchist420 (wherever he is...)

And people with excessive hoarding addictions.

oooo

 

[interchange]

Shit... My cousin was at a mental health hospital and seen the effects of that shit. Aftermath: drooling all over yourself and semi-dead.

It seems like a very archaic method to treat people with mental helath issues. Like something from the 1930's.

Edit-

Looks like the damn thing was made in the 30's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuo9tZJbAFw

Plenty of other case stories there too.

I am sorry that your cousin had a bad experience with ECT. I cannot know their case so it would be worthless to offer any reasoning for the choice of or results of ECT. I can tell you that, like any medical decision, sometimes it is the wrong one and should never have been chosen and sometimes it was a thoughtful and good choice but the results aren't what were anticipated. ECT is a procedure which uses general anesthesia. It is low-risk in comparison to surgery as a whole, but the risks of anything involving anesthesia even if highly unlikely can be dire.

It may be useful, though, to look at counterexamples of people who have been helped with ECT. I'll provide one but am restricting details for privacy. I had opportunity to take care of a woman with postpartum depression which became so severe that she was psychotic, completely unable to feed or change her baby, and catatonic to the extent that she stopped eating and drinking and needed medical hospitalization. Medications helped but not enough. With ECT treatment she was back at home not only caring for herself but her child, no longer psychotic, wearing makeup, and smiling ear-to-ear when discussing her life. Perhaps ECT wasn't necessary to save her life, but I know it did something much more powerful: it gave a child a mother.

 

[nakedfrog]

Yeah, it's a culture of corruption that is the catalyst to all of this crap. I mean, you can look at, say Switzerland and you simply don't see this happening. Granted it's possible though.

For 25 cookies, can anyone guess why I mention Switzerland?

They have universal healthcare?

 

[MrSquished]

It is itself a mental problem.

Very well put. JohnConnerism is indeed a mental problem.

 

[interchange]

On another site, some people were discussing Elyn Saks. This TED talk may be of interest to some folks here: https://youtu.be/f6CILJA110Y

 

[skull]

That is a good question. I take it from your query that you are asserting that 80% of the general population is mentally ill ... and that the prison population is simply a representation of the general public?

Not sure if serious but if true then very worrisome.

You must not get out much, I'll clue you in most people are fucking nuts. I go in to peoples houses for a living, everyone has there quirks. Theres lots of horribly nasty people, ridiculously clean people, people that never shut up even after they ask a question, people that barely mumble a word, people that have shrines to the weirdest shit, people that can't put the game controller down long enough to answer the door, people with more pets and kids than I can count like the house is a goddamn zoo, I can go on and on people are fucking nuts.