Metal Gear Solid Phantom Pain

[Anteaus]

A lot of the arguments I hear are about how nothing makes sense. Which is why I always bring that up. Things do make sense but there are always little details that can be missed in the storytelling. I happen to think Kojima is a fantastic story writer for these games. Just something about it I can't really pinpoint for you. I never had an issue with the story in these games and always felt it was good.

That was what I was referring to earlier. It does make sense to some people, but to others the plot is chaotic. It can be especially confusing to those who don't understand that their are multiple "Snakes" and what their context with each other. For any particular game, it can be difficult to figure out who the good and bad guys are because Kojima likes to have them change sides regularly. Take MGS5 for example. Big Boss is portrayed as the protagonist, but in reality he is just as bad as the rest because he is trying to build power for selfish reasons. Perhaps that moral ambiguity is what makes MGS so good, but its still confusing. These things don't detract from the overall quality of the franchise, but they can create a situation where some gamers become alienated because they didn't bother to study up before playing the games. That is what I and some others are referring to when we talk about the plot, and is a legitimate strike against Kojima. You aren't wrong, but neither are you right if we keep things in context.

I know as a fan who is really into some things, it can be easy to slip into a sort of snob attitude where we can't understand why people don't get it. Anachronox was such a game for me, but many didn't like it. Some content just sings to us. I'm really glad MGS sings to you.

All that said, MGS5 does deserve massive props. Gameplay wise, it is about as good of MGS as I've ever seen. I'm gonna put in another few hours this evening.

 

[KentState]

Yeah, we've had this argument in the forums before. We're all morons and our opinion re: MGS is flawed because our puny brains are incapable of comprehending the glorious divine revelation that is MGS. Everyone is stupid except you.

There, I summarized our debate. Let's move on. Again.

Well, admittedly, he also has a lot of time to play games which makes digesting a complex story easier. I'm lucky if I can get in 1 hour a night during the week and maybe more on the weekends. It's hard to keep stories straight with huge gaps. Others like the OP will spend 60+ hours a week gaming and can focus. I think when something like gaming is a large majority of your life, you struggle to see how others consume it.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Yeah, we've had this argument in the forums before. We're all morons and our opinion re: MGS is flawed because our puny brains are incapable of comprehending the glorious divine revelation that is MGS. Everyone is stupid except you.



There, I summarized our debate. Let's move on. Again.

Nobody said that get over yourself.

 

[artemicion]

Nobody said that get over yourself.

You've repeatedly said that people who criticize MGS's plot do so because they "missed" some "little details" in the story:

A lot of the arguments I hear are about how nothing makes sense. Which is why I always bring that up. Things do make sense but there are always little details that can be missed in the storytelling.

The story in MGS is polarizing. Either you like it or you don't. I do quite a bit and understand what's going on but it does require your full attention or you will miss something and you'll forever be missing that piece of information that kind of ties something together later. Some people just don't like that, but there's tons of MGS fans.

In a prior thread you inferred that I disliked Kojima because I "just couldn't follow" his games:

If you just couldn't follow it say so rather than bash it like lots of other people who have absolutely no clue what the story is about but think they are able to call it bad.

Responding to someone else who criticized MGS:

If that's all you got from it you didn't pay attention enough.

And when a third person chimed in you basically made a category accusation that we only enjoy "dumbing down games":

So believe whatever you want and it's done. You don't get it and never will because you don't want to. People talk about dumbing down games and I was always against the usage of that term but it perfectly fits here.

I'm all for polite discussion of the pros and cons of a game, but your responses to people's critiques is just downright rude. You suggested that our opinions are invalid because we "missed" things in the story and we are stupid apes that can only appreciate dumbed down games with simple plots. People made specific critiques of MGS and instead of responding to those specific critiques in a substantive manner, you consistently relied upon the "you just don't get it and never will because you're not paying attention" copout.

I'm sure if I listed all the things I like, you will think some of those things are retarded. But I don't feel the need to defend my preferences by tearing you down. I like what I like and you like what you like. Let's just keep it at that.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The arguments before are different than what's being discussed here. It's two different threads and two entirely different discussions. If you really want to get into the why of it, I said what I said before because honestly it seemed like people were bashing the story(and by extension the game series) because they didn't understand what was going on. Lots of people do that across the internet with regard to MGS.

Dunno why you bring up old threads that aren't even the same discussion. I wasn't replying here to anyone bashing the story (notice I ignored your first post on purpose?). I was just pointing out to Sulaco that the story has small details that matter a great deal but aren't apparent and are easy to miss, sometimes through codec conversations that you might not even get unless you purposely seek them out. I just brought up the point that the most talked about aspect of the MGS games is how the story makes little sense and didn't direct it to anyone. So whatever you make of that is for you to decide. Not everyone is going to like a game that almost requires you to seek every detail of information to tie the action to the story. That's how MGS games have traditionally been, too many small character details to count.

Well, admittedly, he also has a lot of time to play games which makes digesting a complex story easier. I'm lucky if I can get in 1 hour a night during the week and maybe more on the weekends. It's hard to keep stories straight with huge gaps. Others like the OP will spend 60+ hours a week gaming and can focus. I think when something like gaming is a large majority of your life, you struggle to see how others consume it.

I don't think it's exactly that, but part of it might be that when you're made to watch 3 hours of cutscenes and story bits it's extremely easy to give up or get bored. It happens. Especially if you haven't been heavily invested in the series or don't find anything that interesting to keep you going. Though I would say that MGS, specifically MGS4 wasn't a game that you can digest in small chunks. It didn't lend itself well to that I don't think. An hour here or there wouldn't progress you very far into it. Sometimes one scene could be 30 minutes or more.

 

[purbeast0]

of course someone will bash the story if they don't know what is going on and it doesn't make sense to them. if it's extremely hard to know what is going, then the product is doing a bad job of story telling. and that doesn't mean the story has to hold your hand the entire time.

i do agree that the 45 minute cutscenes that get thrown in your face when you just want to play a damn game get boring as hell (especially with such a convoluted and crappy story) to the point you stop paying attention.

 

[sze5003]

The story is a bit over the top but I enjoyed playing the demo. I think it will do fine for those who enjoy the series. I haven't been paying much attention to games lately but I plan on picking it up at some point probably for ps4.

The cutscenes are a lot I agree but MGS has always been like that to be honest.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The story is a bit over the top but I enjoyed playing the demo. I think it will do fine for those who enjoy the series. I haven't been paying much attention to games lately but I plan on picking it up at some point probably for ps4.

The cutscenes are a lot I agree but MGS has always been like that to be honest.

I've seen some complaints on other forums about people wanting more story scenes in the game because after the initial bit there's almost none.

 

[sze5003]

I've seen some complaints on other forums about people wanting more story scenes in the game because after the initial bit there's almost none.

I felt lost at the beginning of the demo but as I played I got the hang of the story they were telling at some point. Its nothing like last of us or uncharted but its enough for the type of game it portrays. Being open world is a plus so you can take each mission how you want. I'm not sure if it will be missions or they just throw you in.

 

[Madia]

I'm going to play ground zero first to refamiliarize with the prologue (it's only ~90 minutes taking my time) before starting MGSV. With the ability to import save data into MGSV is there anything I should make sure to do in ground zero or is the stuff imported basically fluff?

 

[sze5003]

I've been pretty absent on info about games lately. Been busy with other things but is this out already?

 

[cmdrdredd]

I've been pretty absent on info about games lately. Been busy with other things but is this out already?

Yes, released on Tuesday

 

[sze5003]

Yes, released on Tuesday

Damn alright well I'll think about picking up but I have been doing a ton of going out lately as opposed to gaming so I'm not sure how much I'll play.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I'm getting it free on PC from a friend of mine who is buying a new GPU on saturday. He doesn't want the game.

 

[sze5003]

Just remembered I have a $10 best buy certificate and gamers club at best buy. Need to use it before the 13th so I'll probably get it soon.

 

[Blanky]

I remember how much MGS4 was hyped and how many perfect review scores it got. I bought it day one. First Metal Gear game I had ever played. Got about a quarter way through then confined it to my shelf of forgotten games. Still haven't beaten it. I found it very tedious, and the half hour long mandatory cutscenes between levels certainly didn't help. Story was painfully cheesy too. Really soured me off stealth games.

Hardcore MGS fans can't be taken seriously, and their opinions on this game should be dismissed because they will happily eat from Kojima's toilet and brag about it online. The problem is they also scream out objective conversations about these games, so you need to get the opinion of people who merely appreciate them without praying to Kojima before they go to bed.

If you want to play a game without half a million hours of cut scenes, the Splinter Cell games fit the bill nicely. Fun, very tactical stealth games. I enjoy them all.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Hardcore MGS fans can't be taken seriously, and their opinions on this game should be dismissed because they will happily eat from Kojima's toilet and brag about it online. The problem is they also scream out objective conversations about these games, so you need to get the opinion of people who merely appreciate them without praying to Kojima before they go to bed.



If you want to play a game without half a million hours of cut scenes, the Splinter Cell games fit the bill nicely. Fun, very tactical stealth games. I enjoy them all.

Whatever you say. Clearly you know better than everyone else with an opinion.

 

[purbeast0]

i really do wish they would bring back splinter cell. playing splinter cell the first time was amazing. it gave me that same feeling i had when i played MGS for the first play through. but it did the stealth thing much better.

 

[sze5003]

i really do wish they would bring back splinter cell. playing splinter cell the first time was amazing. it gave me that same feeling i had when i played MGS for the first play through. but it did the stealth thing much better.

I know exactly what you are talking about. Haven't had that feeling in a long time when playing a game. The first splinter cell was great but then they kind of went rogue. I also didn't mind the last one they came out with even though they tried too hard to make it appeal to the rest of the action crowd.

 

[finbarqs]

7 hours into this game, and I'm barely 3% done with the game... All the side missions, and using the Fulton, it's just crazy... Challenging myself to not kill 1 person and extract all of them for a huge army fight! I just did the "blow up antenna" mission and I extracted everyone hahaha... The AI is MUCH smarter than previous MGS games... it's almost annoying and I wish they were stupid and easy like they were before. They're not human, but they can see you from afar if you're in their FOV. And it's hard to interrogate them! But it's fun nevertheless... It's annoying how at the end of each mission they make it seem like the game is done. They roll credits every time you've completed a mission... it's really annoying..

 

[sze5003]

7 hours into this game, and I'm barely 3% done with the game... All the side missions, and using the Fulton, it's just crazy... Challenging myself to not kill 1 person and extract all of them for a huge army fight! I just did the "blow up antenna" mission and I extracted everyone hahaha... The AI is MUCH smarter than previous MGS games... it's almost annoying and I wish they were stupid and easy like they were before. They're not human, but they can see you from afar if you're in their FOV. And it's hard to interrogate them! But it's fun nevertheless... It's annoying how at the end of each mission they make it seem like the game is done. They roll credits every time you've completed a mission... it's really annoying..

Are the missions linked to some type of events or are they all similar? As in extract this person, go back, get this other one? Or do they have a variety of things to do?

 

[Anteaus]

Are the missions linked to some type of events or are they all similar? As in extract this person, go back, get this other one? Or do they have a variety of things to do?

The majority of the side missions are mostly about acquiring stuff to build up your base, whether it be to "steal" people for R&D or to acquire blueprints. This aspect of the game was fun for awhile but now its wearing on me. The open world aspect is very well done, but I'm starting to feel the strain of repetition similar to what pushed me away from Just Cause 2.

The bad part is that there are thresholds you need to meet with your base before the story missions can continue, which artificially lengthens the game to a degree. Lots of grinding. The story missions are amazing when I can do them. I'm not a min/max type of gamer so replaying old missions until I can move forward doesn't do much for me. I'm probably about 15-20 hours in and I'm only at around 6% complete according to the game.

All in all, it is well done but even Kojima can't eliminate intrinsic downsides to open world gaming.

 

[sze5003]

Thanks for that. Seems like it could get repetitive grinding mini missions to build up a base and access the story quests. I guess it can't be too bad if it really unlocks a lot of things you can use later.

 

[KentState]

I have not been able to connect to the game servers yet on my PS4. Anyone else having any luck?

 

[cmdrdredd]

There is/was a maintenance.

Also I got a tape that plays back some guy taking a dump, including all the grunts and groans. If you play the tape with the speaker while you hide in the toilet, the guards don't bother to look in there lol.