Miami police shake down bank customers

[sandorski]

Wow, good thinking! Harrass your citizens while looking for the ultimate Strawman. Someone's put a lot of thought into this tactic, obviously.

Let's assume there are Terrorists in the town/city in question. What are the chances that a random action will actual net a Terrorist? I suspect near 0 as the Terrorists would spend 99 44/100% of the time doing things that are not suspicious at all. You might get lucky and randomly be in the right place at the right time when the Terrorist(s) are about to strike, maybe. Chances are a Terrorist Network would just work around this, identify a number of targets, then scout before carrying out an attack identifying which targets are Hot and which are vulnerable. Not only that, but the Police/Authorities are too busy performing a charade rather than actually trying to find Terrorists. Ridiculous.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: HotChic
"For the last time, I forgot my ID, dammit!"
"That's what you've said every day you've come in here."
"So I forget a lot!"

Are you caucasian or could you be possibly of middle eastern descent? Do you think the police would treat either of the two races differently in the situation you describe?

I thought there was some sort of law on the books about illegal search and seizure?

I was suggestion civil disobedience. If nobody brings their IDs with them, how long would this last?

The citizens are afraid to stand up against these neocons.. look at what they did to the people who tried to protest at the RNC ..

Cheney threatened everyone that if they voted for Kerry that Bin Laden would bomb them

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: dahunan

First they came for the Arabs
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Arab.
Then they came for the Liberals
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Liberal.
Then they came for the Democrats
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Democrat.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: HotChic
"For the last time, I forgot my ID, dammit!"
"That's what you've said every day you've come in here."
"So I forget a lot!"

Are you caucasian or could you be possibly of middle eastern descent? Do you think the police would treat either of the two races differently in the situation you describe?

I thought there was some sort of law on the books about illegal search and seizure?

I was suggestion civil disobedience. If nobody brings their IDs with them, how long would this last?

The citizens are afraid to stand up against these neocons.. look at what they did to the people who tried to protest at the RNC ..

Cheney threatened everyone that if they voted for Kerry that Bin Laden would bomb them

wow earning your partisan hackery award today!

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: HotChic
"For the last time, I forgot my ID, dammit!"
"That's what you've said every day you've come in here."
"So I forget a lot!"

Are you caucasian or could you be possibly of middle eastern descent? Do you think the police would treat either of the two races differently in the situation you describe?

I thought there was some sort of law on the books about illegal search and seizure?

I was suggestion civil disobedience. If nobody brings their IDs with them, how long would this last?

The citizens are afraid to stand up against these neocons.. look at what they did to the people who tried to protest at the RNC ..

Cheney threatened everyone that if they voted for Kerry that Bin Laden would bomb them

wow earning your partisan hackery award today!

SO.. If that is all you have to say about this event does that mean you agree with the proposed actions of Jebs policemen?

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: HotChic
"For the last time, I forgot my ID, dammit!"
"That's what you've said every day you've come in here."
"So I forget a lot!"

Are you caucasian or could you be possibly of middle eastern descent? Do you think the police would treat either of the two races differently in the situation you describe?

I thought there was some sort of law on the books about illegal search and seizure?

I was suggestion civil disobedience. If nobody brings their IDs with them, how long would this last?

The citizens are afraid to stand up against these neocons.. look at what they did to the people who tried to protest at the RNC ..

Cheney threatened everyone that if they voted for Kerry that Bin Laden would bomb them

wow earning your partisan hackery award today!

SO.. If that is all you have to say about this event does that mean you agree with the proposed actions of Jebs policemen?

No, it means he sees some of the flaws in your argument. I very much doubt that most people would be afraid to refuse to show their ID. Most may not find the hassle worth their while, but Americans are far more avoidant from hassle than they are from fear.

And it seemed to me that the last sentence of your post was inviting antagonism, and alchemize seemed to be recognizing that as well.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: HotChic
"For the last time, I forgot my ID, dammit!"
"That's what you've said every day you've come in here."
"So I forget a lot!"

Are you caucasian or could you be possibly of middle eastern descent? Do you think the police would treat either of the two races differently in the situation you describe?

I thought there was some sort of law on the books about illegal search and seizure?

I was suggestion civil disobedience. If nobody brings their IDs with them, how long would this last?

The citizens are afraid to stand up against these neocons.. look at what they did to the people who tried to protest at the RNC ..

Cheney threatened everyone that if they voted for Kerry that Bin Laden would bomb them

wow earning your partisan hackery award today!

SO.. If that is all you have to say about this event does that mean you agree with the proposed actions of Jebs policemen?

No, it means he sees some of the flaws in your argument. I very much doubt that most people would be afraid to refuse to show their ID. Most may not find the hassle worth their while, but Americans are far more avoidant from hassle than they are from fear.

And it seemed to me that the last sentence of your post was inviting antagonism, and alchemize seemed to be recognizing that as well.

I speak the truth and it is inviting antagonism?

His lack of speaking is = to acceptance

Lack of speaking out against issues like this in Miami also = acceptance

Americans have been silent far too long.

Cheney told Republican supporters at a town hall meeting in Des Moines that they needed to make "the right choice" in the November 2 election.

"If we make the wrong choice, then the danger is that we'll get hit again -- that we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States," Cheney said.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: HotChic
"For the last time, I forgot my ID, dammit!"
"That's what you've said every day you've come in here."
"So I forget a lot!"

Are you caucasian or could you be possibly of middle eastern descent? Do you think the police would treat either of the two races differently in the situation you describe?

I thought there was some sort of law on the books about illegal search and seizure?

I was suggestion civil disobedience. If nobody brings their IDs with them, how long would this last?

The citizens are afraid to stand up against these neocons.. look at what they did to the people who tried to protest at the RNC ..

Cheney threatened everyone that if they voted for Kerry that Bin Laden would bomb them

wow earning your partisan hackery award today!

SO.. If that is all you have to say about this event does that mean you agree with the proposed actions of Jebs policemen?

No, not a particularily effective method of preventing terrorism. Performing sweeps of illegal aliens would be much more effective. And yes, I think that given an appropriate structure of checks and balances, requiring ID to be presented can be constitutional and is a necessary tool in law enforcement.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: HotChic
"For the last time, I forgot my ID, dammit!"
"That's what you've said every day you've come in here."
"So I forget a lot!"

Are you caucasian or could you be possibly of middle eastern descent? Do you think the police would treat either of the two races differently in the situation you describe?

I thought there was some sort of law on the books about illegal search and seizure?

I was suggestion civil disobedience. If nobody brings their IDs with them, how long would this last?

The citizens are afraid to stand up against these neocons.. look at what they did to the people who tried to protest at the RNC ..

Cheney threatened everyone that if they voted for Kerry that Bin Laden would bomb them

wow earning your partisan hackery award today!

SO.. If that is all you have to say about this event does that mean you agree with the proposed actions of Jebs policemen?

No, it means he sees some of the flaws in your argument. I very much doubt that most people would be afraid to refuse to show their ID. Most may not find the hassle worth their while, but Americans are far more avoidant from hassle than they are from fear.

And it seemed to me that the last sentence of your post was inviting antagonism, and alchemize seemed to be recognizing that as well.

I speak the truth and it is inviting antagonism?

His lack of speaking is = to acceptance

Lack of speaking out against issues like this in Miami also = acceptance

Americans have been silent far too long.

Cheney told Republican supporters at a town hall meeting in Des Moines that they needed to make "the right choice" in the November 2 election.

"If we make the wrong choice, then the danger is that we'll get hit again -- that we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States," Cheney said.

I think that what you said was a valid statement, but I think the way you phrased it made the antagonistic aspect of it override the point you were making. The way you said it this second time helped me see the point you were making much more clearly, with the rhetoric out of the way.

 

[dahunan]

True.. I am used to having to speak that way around here

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: dahunan

First they came for the Arabs
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Arab.
Then they came for the Liberals
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Liberal.
Then they came for the Democrats
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Democrat.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

But at least there was that sublime twilight period w/o any liberals


JK, seriously, this is BS and should be stopped.

 

[AreaCode707]

So how long do you think this will actually last? It seems so absurdly out of proportion - is it destined to be one of those stupid things that winds up dying pretty quickly?

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: HotChic
"For the last time, I forgot my ID, dammit!"
"That's what you've said every day you've come in here."
"So I forget a lot!"

Are you caucasian or could you be possibly of middle eastern descent? Do you think the police would treat either of the two races differently in the situation you describe?

I thought there was some sort of law on the books about illegal search and seizure?

Same place where a little piece of paper called the Constitution used to be. In the trash.

Eh, each side mainly protects the provisions they like... the lefties in the 90's in particular really hammered on the 2nd ammendment... AND it was the Liberal wing of the supreme court that FUBAR'd property rights for business while the conservatives voted against that ... you guys never mention that here of course...

A strict conservative or literal interpretation of the constitution is better than the convience-oriented approach many of you guys take to the provisions you like or don't like.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: HotChic
So how long do you think this will actually last? It seems so absurdly out of proportion - is it destined to be one of those stupid things that winds up dying pretty quickly?

My dear, expect this to be the beginning. The end of it all is when people decide to stop hating each other or haven't the means to do so. The first will never happen, and the means to kill become more accessable with every generation. There is a third option, but that would require people to think about how they feel and assess things rationally without fear. Not many can do that I think. As for me, I won't give in to security.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: HotChic
So how long do you think this will actually last? It seems so absurdly out of proportion - is it destined to be one of those stupid things that winds up dying pretty quickly?

My dear, expect this to be the beginning. The end of it all is when people decide to stop hating each other or haven't the means to do so. The first will never happen, and the means to kill become more accessable with every generation. There is a third option, but that would require people to think about how they feel and assess things rationally without fear. Not many can do that I think. As for me, I won't give in to security.

Do you think the means to kill has become more accessible? It almost seems to me the opposite. The means to kill en masse has become more accessible to a more and more limited group of people, but the means to kill in small numbers seems to have decreased over the past few decades.

Almost seems like a bell curve to me, or maybe it's a cycle. Further back in history you saw serfs and lords, where the lords could kill in (relatively) large numbers but the serfs couldn't do much killing. Then there was a period where pretty much anybody had the ability to kill anybody else, and now we're getting back to the point where very few can kill large numbers and the rest of us can't do much in comparison.

Sorry, I'm dragging the thread off topic with my ramblings.

 

[Polish3d]

One reason I voted for Bush is because I do think that if his Iraq policy succeeds in standing up a stable democratic government, and helps to accelerate that region toward moderation, than it will do more to prevent serious terrorist attacks than anything else.


I think one of the greatest threats to our civil liberties are terrorist attacks. Both parties respond similarly, and I think repeated domestic terror attacks or a nuclear attack will be very corrosive to civil liberties.

Both sides also suck as far as civil liberties go... PATRIOT Act pushed by Bush but signed by Dems ... the Liberal's efforts to reduce/eliminate the 2nd ammendment and the liberal wing of the Supreme Court's decision on the use of eminent domain are examples.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Frackal
One reason I voted for Bush is because I do think that if his Iraq policy succeeds in standing up a stable democratic government, and helps to accelerate that region toward moderation, than it will do more to prevent serious terrorist attacks than anything else.


I think one of the greatest threats to our civil liberties are terrorist attacks. Both parties respond similarly, and I think repeated domestic terror attacks or a nuclear attack will be very corrosive to civil liberties.

Both sides also suck as far as civil liberties go... PATRIOT Act pushed by Bush but signed by Dems ... the Liberal's efforts to reduce/eliminate the 2nd ammendment and the liberal wing of the Supreme Court's decision on the use of eminent domain are examples.

For once I agree with Frackal (well, not about the Iraq part). I actually think that the stupid reaction to terrorist attacks is even more of the threat than the attacks themselves. People don't seem to understand a basic fact of terrorism, there just aren't too many terrorists out there. Not that too many are necessary for 9/11 type attacks, but people don't seeem to get that the number of actual terrorists in a population is very, VERY small. So broad programs that annoy (or worse) law abiding citizens make no sense, since far too much of the effort goes into harassing people who pose no threat at all.

This Miami police crap is the perfect example...how many terrorists do you think they will end up interacting with? I would lay serious money on none. But the Miami police are going to spend time and effort shaking down Joe Bankcustomer instead of doing something that might actually help. Personally I'd (politely) tell them to shove it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: HotChic
So how long do you think this will actually last? It seems so absurdly out of proportion - is it destined to be one of those stupid things that winds up dying pretty quickly?

My dear, expect this to be the beginning. The end of it all is when people decide to stop hating each other or haven't the means to do so. The first will never happen, and the means to kill become more accessable with every generation. There is a third option, but that would require people to think about how they feel and assess things rationally without fear. Not many can do that I think. As for me, I won't give in to security.

Do you think the means to kill has become more accessible? It almost seems to me the opposite. The means to kill en masse has become more accessible to a more and more limited group of people, but the means to kill in small numbers seems to have decreased over the past few decades.

Almost seems like a bell curve to me, or maybe it's a cycle. Further back in history you saw serfs and lords, where the lords could kill in (relatively) large numbers but the serfs couldn't do much killing. Then there was a period where pretty much anybody had the ability to kill anybody else, and now we're getting back to the point where very few can kill large numbers and the rest of us can't do much in comparison.

Sorry, I'm dragging the thread off topic with my ramblings.

It's all about technology. A little know-how goes a long way. Certainly there are people available with the knowlege to cause considerable mayhem with common chemicals and other materials. In the future, people will have access to techniques for augmenting the virulance of pathogens. That is really spooky.

As far as attacks having not yet happened, people make the mistake of believing that terrorists are irrational. They are not. What they do is use very practical means to attack in ways to create maximum effect. They are quite functional. If they haven't struck it's simply because the time isn't right for them, or they don't see the need, at least at this moment.

What do I make of this? Not much. In reality you stand a much higher chance of being struck down by an auto. Terrorists have no power over me simply because I don't fear them. I win. What can happen is things like the Miami shakedowns. That bothers me far more than terrorists, and even more, the attitude of acceptance where it would not have been tolerated before.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

"This is an in-your-face type of strategy. It's letting the terrorists know we are out there," Fernandez said.

I think an even more effective strategy would be "prophylactic" searches. You know, just randomly choose every fifth house on a block and beat on the door at 5AM. Get on the horn and blast out (at about 120 dB), "This is the police. Your house is surrounded. Open your door peaceably, and no one will be hurt."

Then ransack the place, slash the matresses, empty all the drawers, full-body-cavity search all the occupants - in general, really shake everyone up.

Just wait 'til word gets out on THAT strategy. Those terrorist ferners gonna think twice 'afore they step foot in Myama.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Dissipate

"This is an in-your-face type of strategy. It's letting the terrorists know we are out there," Fernandez said.

I think an even more effective strategy would be "prophylactic" searches. You know, just randomly choose every fifth house on a block and beat on the door at 5AM. Get on the horn and blast out (at about 120 dB), "This is the police. Your house is surrounded. Open your door peaceably, and no one will be hurt."

Then ransack the place, slash the matresses, empty all the drawers, full-body-cavity search all the occupants - in general, really shake everyone up.

Just wait 'til word gets out on THAT strategy. Those terrorist ferners gonna think twice 'afore they step foot in Myama.

There you go--exposing Plan B for the terrorists to hear and to plan against. THANKS A LOT!!!!

Expect a knock on YOUR door just about any time now...

 

[piasabird]

Not any different than a sobriety check or a Safety check to see if your seatbelt is fastened.

We are only here to protect you. . . what no seatbelt; get out of the car and spread em while we beat your wife.

Heaven forbid that some poor sucker would want the freedom not to wear a seatbelt.

Oh, thank you for that $120.00 Communist manifesto fine.