Michigan is going down.

[Infohawk]

Michigan should default as a sovereign state. Maybe they won't get any more loans but then they can live within their means. I'm sure the tax revenues can pay for police, fire, roads and some education, if possible.

 

[HeXen]

we are no longer in a depression. Obama said so himself.

 

[Jadow]

They just had no defense at all last year. Rich Rod got canned though, so they might get a little better.

 

[boomerang]

There are lots of big profitable businesses in CA, MI? ZERO

We're all poor black folks too, but that's kind of our dirty little secret. Well, except for all the poor Arabs in Dearborn.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Maybe Michigan should secede and join Canada. Heck, the Yoopers want to secede the Upper Penninsula and form the a 51st state named Superior.

 

[shiner]

Maybe Michigan should secede and join Canada. Heck, the Yoopers want to secede the Upper Penninsula and form the a 51st state named Superior.

Based on the interactions I've had with Yoopers I doubt most of them could spell Superior.

 

[Brigandier]

Based on the interactions I've had with Yoopers I doubt most of them could spell Superior.

Troll.

 

[IronWing]

News flash! College graduates make more on average than average. Comparing wages by employer instead of by job description/qualifications is pointless at best and often done with intent of deception. Boeing employs engineers and window washers. I bet one group earns more.

Another news flash! Politicians find cutting taxes is easier than cutting spending!

And one more! Politicians underfund pension programs just like private sector employers!

 

[Gigantopithecus]

News flash! College graduates make more on average than average. Comparing wages by employer instead of by job description/qualifications is pointless at best and often done with intent of deception. Boeing employs engineers and window washers. I bet one group earns more.

Another news flash! Politicians find cutting taxes is easier than cutting spending!

And one more! Politicians underfund pension programs just like private sector employers!

lol. I appreciate your cynicism.

 

[RFE]

News flash! College graduates make more on average than average. Comparing wages by employer instead of by job description/qualifications is pointless at best and often done with intent of deception. Boeing employs engineers and window washers. I bet one group earns more.

Another news flash! Politicians find cutting taxes is easier than cutting spending!

And one more! Politicians underfund pension programs just like private sector employers!

Newsflash! Ironwing ignores intent and purpose. Our newly elected governor is working on putting together a plan on how to tackle obscene deficits. He starts by breaking down where the money comes from and where it goes to....understands what a deficit is, looks to the largest budget item, K-12 education which represents 21% of the expenditures. Breaks that piece down to demonstrate excess. But don't let that get in the way of your partisan hackery.
Slide 13 of 16 is dire, especially when the rainy day fund is near zero and we're swimming in debt. Lets not even mention the significant shift in unemployment claims these past two years.
Another Newsflash, yet no surprise!!! Ironwing utter fail to acknowledge that underfunded private sector pension programs are often times addressed using draconian methods. Just ask former Delphi salaried people.

 

[IronWing]

Newsflash! Ironwing ignores intent and purpose. Our newly elected governor is working on putting together a plan on how to tackle obscene deficits. He starts by breaking down where the money comes from and where it goes to....understands what a deficit is, looks to the largest budget item, K-12 education which represents 21% of the expenditures. Breaks that piece down to demonstrate excess. But don't let that get in the way of your partisan hackery.
Slide 13 of 16 is dire, especially when the rainy day fund is near zero and we're swimming in debt. Lets not even mention the significant shift in unemployment claims these past two years.
Another Newsflash, yet no surprise!!! Ironwing utter fail to acknowledge that underfunded private sector pension programs are often times addressed using draconian methods. Just ask former Delphi salaried people.

Proof of excess?

The attack on pension plans is fundamentally viscous class warfare with politicians representing the interests of the rich against the middle and working class. Politicians would rather cheat and steal from the workers than tax their wealthy masters.

Incidentally, where was I partisan? Or is that just how your world works?

And just not to lose my first point: comparing wages by employer tells us nothing.

 

[RedChief]

Michigan should default as a sovereign state. Maybe they won't get any more loans but then they can live within their means. I'm sure the tax revenues can pay for police, fire, roads and some education, if possible.

Going even further, if a state has to go into default, then it should no longer be a state but revert to being a federal territory.

 

[jackace]

News flash! College graduates make more on average than average. Comparing wages by employer instead of by job description/qualifications is pointless at best and often done with intent of deception. Boeing employs engineers and window washers. I bet one group earns more.

Agree with this 100%

A good majority of the government employees are college graduates many of which have advanced degrees or posses training in specialized fields. Meanwhile the average private sector worker probably has about a 12th grade education and no specialized training of any sort.

 

[PeshakJang]

Borrowing from Alexander Tytler?

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

We're almost there. Almost 1/2 of the country pays zero federal taxes, while screaming the loudest to make the rich pay their fair share. If you tried to make them pay just $20 in taxes a year, they'd have your head.

There's a reason the Democrats pander to the recipient class.

 

[umbrella39]

We're almost there. Almost 1/2 of the country pays zero federal taxes, while screaming the loudest to make the rich pay their fair share. If you tried to make them pay just $20 in taxes a year, they'd have your head.

There's a reason the Democrats pander to the recipient class.

There's a reason why the Republicans pander to this same class, too. With each passing day, more and more of their base are pulling welfare, food stamps, and Medicaid.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

We're almost there. Almost 1/2 of the country pays zero federal taxes, while screaming the loudest to make the rich pay their fair share. If you tried to make them pay just $20 in taxes a year, they'd have your head.

It's hard to pay income taxes when your employers (the wealthy class) won't pay you a living wage. It's hard to pay income taxes when the wealthy class sent all the jobs to Mexico, India, and China, or filled them with foreigners on H-1B or L-1 visas, or filled them with illegal immigrants. It's hard to pay income taxes when economic policies supported by the wealthy class have eliminated jobs and depressed wages.

Perhaps the increased tax money the wealthy would be asked to pay is not really thier money but rather money that they misappropriated from the lower classes? Perhaps it could be seen as being a punishment for helping to commit economic treason?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

There's a reason why the Republicans pander to this same class, too. With each passing day, more and more of their base are pulling welfare, food stamps, and Medicaid.

What's amazing is that these morons still vote Republican. They don't want gay marriage and 'bortion!, and they think it should be legal to teach the Bible in the public schools. Hence, they'll vote for the Republicans.

 

[werepossum]

It's hard to pay income taxes when your employers (the wealthy class) won't pay you a living wage. It's hard to pay income taxes when the wealthy class sent all the jobs to Mexico, India, and China, or filled them with foreigners on H-1B or L-1 visas, or filled them with illegal immigrants. It's hard to pay income taxes when economic policies supported by the wealthy class have eliminated jobs and depressed wages.

Perhaps the increased tax money the wealthy would be asked to pay is not really there money but rather money that they misappropriated from the lower classes? Perhaps it could be seen as being a punishment for helping to commit economic treason?

You have a bizarre concept of employment. I'll ask you two questions.
1. Why do jobs exist?

2. How is the compensation rate for a job set?

 

[EagleKeeper]

We're almost there. Almost 1/2 of the country pays zero federal taxes, while screaming the loudest to make the rich pay their fair share. If you tried to make them pay just $20 in taxes a year, they'd have your head.

It's hard to pay income taxes when your employers (the wealthy class) won't pay you a living wage. It's hard to pay income taxes when the wealthy class sent all the jobs to Mexico, India, and China, or filled them with foreigners on H-1B or L-1 visas, or filled them with illegal immigrants. It's hard to pay income taxes when economic policies supported by the wealthy class have eliminated jobs and depressed wages.

Perhaps the increased tax money the wealthy would be asked to pay is not really there money but rather money that they misappropriated from the lower classes? Perhaps it could be seen as being a punishment for helping to commit economic treason?

by not having the lower class pay anything; they increase the entitlement mentality.

They have no concept of the value of their efforts or anyone else's.
It increase a class warfare and breaks down the "We the People" concept.

Those that pay little/nothing in the end feel that they should be pandered to by those that have something. Those that have something have worked to get to that point; why can not others work their way up?

for every excuse that those that want to be taken care; one can point to an example that disproves the excuse. In general, the excuse may seem legit; but if it can be popped once; the ability to get it popped exists for all that want to put in the effort.

A lack of effort/willing to take the risk is what prevents the lower class from moving up. It is not the upper class that is holding them down.

The living wage is an excuse - they trained themselves for that wage. There is the ability to improve themselves; they wieghed their priorities and chose one.

 

[Mursilis]

Perhaps the increased tax money the wealthy would be asked to pay is not really there money but rather money that they misappropriated from the lower classes? Perhaps it could be seen as being a punishment for helping to commit economic treason?

If you truly believe that, go get it back.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

You have a bizarre concept of employment. I'll ask you two questions.
1. Why do jobs exist?

2. How is the compensation rate for a job set?

Yes, I understand that it's all private property and that the market sets the wages. My point was that the wealthy can manipulate factors in the market to reduce the wages and essentially enslave the lower classes, such as merging the U.S. labor market with billions of impoverished people. You might say that they importing the economic misery caused by socialism, communism, irrationality, and overpopulation to the U.S. from these other nations.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

They have no concept of the value of their efforts or anyone else's. It increase a class warfare and breaks down the "We the People" concept.

Why shouldn't they have a sense of class warfare and why should they feel like they are the same group of people as the wealthy class? The wealthy started the class warfare by sending the jobs overseas, by importing the foreigners on H-1B and L-1 visas, and by supporting mass immigration.

Ironically, America's lower classes have almost no sense of class warfare (compared to, say, the French people). They've allowed free market dogmatism (which is held like a religion) and its accompanying mythological notion that we have meritocracy to keep them from having a sense of class warfare.

Those that pay little/nothing in the end feel that they should be pandered to by those that have something. Those that have something have worked to get to that point; why can not others work their way up?

I'm referring to the working poor and working lower middle classes. They do work but might be underpaid relative to the amount of value (wealth) they are producing.

in your view, is it possible for 2% of the population to own all of the wealth and to dramatically under-compensate the lower classes?

The upper classes are the ones that have political pull and essentially control the government. I don't see why the lower classes shouldn't blame them for atrocities like our current barbaric and wasteful health care system. The people in other first world nations don't have to worry about health care, so why should the American people not feel that they should be entitled to it when we're spending 17% of our GDP (far more than any other nation) on it?

A lack of effort/willing to take the risk is what prevents the lower class from moving up. It is not the upper class that is holding them down.

This is what is called dogma.

If someone is willing to put in the effort to work a job but the jobs are just unavailable, is it really a lack of effort/willingness to take a risk that's preventing people from moving up or is it the overall state of the economy?

The living wage is an excuse - they trained themselves for that wage. There is the ability to improve themselves; they wieghed their priorities and chose one.

How do you explain the existence of underemployed college graduates who trained themselves to earn higher wages? Did you know that a huge amount of MBAs (6 years of college education) and lawyers (7 years of college education) are unemployed or underemployed-and-involuntarily-out-of-field? They trained to earn a higher wage as you say, but yet factors such as the supply of and demand for labor dictate otherwise. Did you know that we even have hordes of underemployed science PhDs, many of who work low-paying gypsy scientist jobs called postdoctorates?

Of course not! In your world meritocracy prevails and people will receive a return on their educational investments--their training for a higher wage.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

If you truly believe that, go get it back.

I'd like to restructure and reorganize our society, but it takes far far more than one person to do that. At root, the real problem is a lack of rationality and a sense of rational selfish interest. It's like we are a nation of children who don't want to acknowledge or solve our real problems. (It's much easier for the politicians and intellectuals to try to convince the public that we have a free market meritocracy and that higher education will magically cure our economic problems.)

My prediction is that the United States will become an impoverished third world country and that the lower classes will become acclimated to it overtime just as people are in other third world countries. I don't expect that we'll see riots or great protests.

 

[Hacp]

Agree with this 100%

A good majority of the government employees are college graduates many of which have advanced degrees or posses training in specialized fields. Meanwhile the average private sector worker probably has about a 12th grade education and no specialized training of any sort.

Guess what? We need to lower salaries and cut jobs. The college graduates can find work in the private sector.

 

[XZeroII]

Uh, has anyone noticed most of the industrialized, free nations on the Earth are all in financial difficulty?

Hard to believe that Bush and his gang could literally break the countries of the free world economy.
But the did.

lol. This now completes it. Bush is now responsible for everything that's going wrong... in the entire world.

Is Bush also responsible for the blizzard in the midwest right now?