Michigan thread -- will easy access to freshwater and good land help turn the economy around?

[Gigantopithecus]

Originally posted by: bloodthirster
I dont think its Englers or Granholms fault. Basically all the free trade agreements have screwed the auto industry in Michigan. Why would anyone have a part made or a tool built in Michigan when they can get it from China at 1/3rd the cost and 100% of the quality.

I disagree. Moron overpaid CEOs & ridiculously lavish anachronistic union agreements have screwed Detroit.

If you had gone to the Autoshow last month, you'd realize China does not threaten Detroit. I went with a retired former Cadillac plant manager, who's reaction to the Changfeng models on display was simply, "and we thought the first Japanese cars to hit our shores were sad."

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: bloodthirster
I dont think its Englers or Granholms fault. Basically all the free trade agreements have screwed the auto industry in Michigan. Why would anyone have a part made or a tool built in Michigan when they can get it from China at 1/3rd the cost and 100% of the quality.

I don't disagree. The problem is that Engler saw the writing on the wall regarding our reliance on manufacturing jobs. Engler attempted to supplement our reliance on the Big 3 by attracting other industry, specifically life sciences and other high-tech industry while Granholm does nothing but wastes time and resources creating slogans about "cool cities" ( Link ) which does nothing to attract business. It would be funny if it weren't so damn pathetic.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
You do realize that during Engler's last year, the unemployment rate was 6.7%

Perspective is lost on the lefties.

What does this chart say to you?

It says to me that once solidly into Engler's term, MI's unemployment rate closely followed the norm of the country within half a point in either direction. The 2002 numbers directly correspond to the effect 9/11 had on the economy as a whole. Meanwhile, the rest of the country has slowly leveled off while MI lags behind. Engler brought business to this state, Granholm seems determined to drive it away.

The rest of the country doesn't have the majority of their workforce in manufacturing/auto industry either. So what business' did Engler bring to Michigan?

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: bloodthirster
I dont think its Englers or Granholms fault. Basically all the free trade agreements have screwed the auto industry in Michigan. Why would anyone have a part made or a tool built in Michigan when they can get it from China at 1/3rd the cost and 100% of the quality.

I don't disagree. The problem is that Engler saw the writing on the wall regarding our reliance on manufacturing jobs. Engler attempted to supplement our reliance on the Big 3 by attracting other industry, specifically life sciences and other high-tech industry while Granholm does nothing but wastes time and resources creating slogans about "cool cities" ( Link ) which does nothing to attract business. It would be funny if it weren't so damn pathetic.

Oh the irony

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0601/p25s01-usmb.html

 

[Stunt]

Detroit:
Year/Poulation/Percent Growth/Rank
1900 285,704 38.8% 13
1910 465,766 63.0% 9
1920 993,678 113.3% 4
1930 1,568,662 57.9% 4
1940 1,623,452 3.5% 4
1950 1,849,568 13.9% 5
1960 1,670,144 -9.7% 5
1970 1,514,063 -9.3% 5
1980 1,203,368 -20.5% 6
1990 1,027,974 -14.6% 7
2000 951,270 -7.5% 10

Detriot is less than half its size during its peak...

Michigan:
1900 2,420,982 16%
1910 2,810,173 16%
1920 3,668,412 31%
1930 4,842,325 32%
1940 5,256,106 9%
1950 6,371,766 21%
1960 7,823,194 23%
1970 8,875,083 13%
1980 9,262,078 4%
1990 9,295,297 0%
2000 9,938,444 7%
2005 est. 10,120,860 2%

Michigan State is growing and faster than the US's average of 1% annually...

/thread

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: bloodthirster
I dont think its Englers or Granholms fault. Basically all the free trade agreements have screwed the auto industry in Michigan. Why would anyone have a part made or a tool built in Michigan when they can get it from China at 1/3rd the cost and 100% of the quality.

I don't disagree. The problem is that Engler saw the writing on the wall regarding our reliance on manufacturing jobs. Engler attempted to supplement our reliance on the Big 3 by attracting other industry, specifically life sciences and other high-tech industry while Granholm does nothing but wastes time and resources creating slogans about "cool cities" ( Link ) which does nothing to attract business. It would be funny if it weren't so damn pathetic.

Oh the irony

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0601/p25s01-usmb.html

What Irony? While Engler was Governor, his first responsibility was to the state. A quote from Engler regarding the auto industry right from your link: "It is to the point now where they simply, fundamentally, have got to be fixed. And that means they are going to get smaller in order to get better."

Just because Engler is now NAM President doesn't exclude him from the cold hard fact of reality.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: bloodthirster
I dont think its Englers or Granholms fault. Basically all the free trade agreements have screwed the auto industry in Michigan. Why would anyone have a part made or a tool built in Michigan when they can get it from China at 1/3rd the cost and 100% of the quality.

I don't disagree. The problem is that Engler saw the writing on the wall regarding our reliance on manufacturing jobs. Engler attempted to supplement our reliance on the Big 3 by attracting other industry, specifically life sciences and other high-tech industry while Granholm does nothing but wastes time and resources creating slogans about "cool cities" ( Link ) which does nothing to attract business. It would be funny if it weren't so damn pathetic.

Can you blame Granholm tho? Or anyone who would be governor right now? She inherited a ticking time bomb thanks to the Big 3, that bomb has went off and it's screwing this state...I dont think DeVos could have done anything better then what she is doing right now. Which is try and bail out a sinking ship with a kitchen pan. Michigan's workforce is too old and too undiversified to do a damn thing. Breaking it down job wise in michigan, you either work manufacturing, agriculture, health care, or some seasonal tourism job. Not exactly a recipe for success and thanks high taxes and no real incentive to move to Michigan given the nature of the workforce this will only get worse, and it wont matter who is governor. Until the Big 3 can do something again, then michigan is in the sh!tter...

 

[Moonbeam]

Wherever I go, there I am.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: bloodthirster
I dont think its Englers or Granholms fault. Basically all the free trade agreements have screwed the auto industry in Michigan. Why would anyone have a part made or a tool built in Michigan when they can get it from China at 1/3rd the cost and 100% of the quality.

Tell that to GM who moved production to Mexico.

The auto industry abandoned Michigan because it cost too much. too much taxes, too much payroll, and too much inteference.

 

[rudder]

They are all coming to Tennessee. We have Nissan... maybe Toyota now. But I bet they avoid hiring former union folks if they can. The unions have tried unsuccessfully to infiltrate Nissan.

No union at NIssan.... but go figure... people like working there with great conditions, great pay, and nice benefits.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I tend to think that if the knowledge-based jobs are available, some of the college grads will stay and others will come, especially in today's economy. However, it doesn't help when many of the knowledge-based jobs are being either sent offshore or filled by foreigners on H-1B, H-2B, or L-1 visas.

With that in mind, Michigan has to find a way to decrease the cost of doing business in Michigan, which ultimately means, as painful as it will be, that it's going to need to find a way to shift more of the tax burden to working people and <gasp> cut spending. Then in marketing the state, it can try to emphasize its low cost of doing business and, relative to many other states, its low cost of living.

Of course, that's eaiser to say than to do. Right now one of the large issues is what to do with the archaic Single Business Tax. The general consensus seems to be that it needs to be either eliminated or decreased, but whether the funding should be replaced and who should make it up is a different story.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: bloodthirster
I dont think its Englers or Granholms fault. Basically all the free trade agreements have screwed the auto industry in Michigan. Why would anyone have a part made or a tool built in Michigan when they can get it from China at 1/3rd the cost and 100% of the quality.

Tell that to GM who moved production to Mexico.

The auto industry abandoned America because it cost too much. too much taxes, too much payroll, and too much inteference.

Fixed

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
I tend to think that if the knowledge-based jobs are available, some of the college grads will stay and others will come, especially in today's economy. However, it doesn't help when many of the knowledge-based jobs are being either sent offshore or filled by foreigners on H-1B, H-2B, or L-1 visas.

With that in mind, Michigan has to find a way to decrease the cost of doing business in Michigan, which ultimately means, as painful as it will be, that it's going to need to find a way to shift more of the tax burden to working people and <gasp> cut spending. Then in marketing the state, it can try to emphasize its low cost of doing business and, relative to many other states, its low cost of living.

Of course, that's eaiser to say than to do. Right now one of the large issues is what to do with the archaic Single Business Tax. The general consensus seems to be that it needs to be either eliminated or decreased, but whether the funding should be replaced and who should make it up is a different story.

Well like you said, it's all easier said than done. Most people in Michigan obviously don't want a tax increase, and for Granholm to do that, well thats political suicide. Odds are that Granholm and the state Congress will duke it out and in the end everyone will lose.

I mean on my end, I'm staying in the state with my bachelors degree that I will earn in a 8 weeks. I know my girlfriend is sticking around she has a bachelors in engineering and in december her masters. Her idea is that I'll stick around because with everyone leaving that means if she sticks it out she can find a job. Especially with her Masters. But she already has a very stable job at Ford. And stable job at Ford is a rare thing right now and one that she is exploiting.

You are right again that Michigan needs to advertise its low cost of living. Which is yet another reason me and the woman are sticking around. We can get a damn nice house in suburban Detroit without breaking the bank.

 

[BarneyFife]

Just curious but why do you think she has a stable job at Ford after all the layoffs and the record losses?

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Just curious but why do you think she has a stable job at Ford after all the layoffs and the record losses?

Few reasons...one is that she's salaried and young this helps to her advantage as with the salaried folks they try and get the older people out first. The second reason are the projects she is working on are projects that won't be canceled(she's working in the trucks division) and will allow her to prove her worth...that and the parts she's prototyped have been really well received. The third reason is that she got the highest score possible on the yearly performance review...again that works for her.

That and you can say she just rode out the worst of the buyouts so her chances of sticking around are good.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
And likewise those your tax and spend flip-flopping freshman senetors, not mine.

So what do we do now? continue bashing the other side? Or are you a shill for the Democrats? How much do they pay you?

How about we learn to agree to disagree. Or are you too set in your ways to even think that another point of view may have some value?

I don't get paid a penny and I am an equal opportunity basher if you've read my posts.

I have one set way, the American Way and what is good for America.

Just so happens it is mainly the Republicans coming up with bad things for America the last seven years.

Democrats that have done bonehead moves (mainly on local levels like Louisiana) have gotten bashed as well.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: rudder
They are all coming to Tennessee. We have Nissan... maybe Toyota now. But I bet they avoid hiring former union folks if they can. The unions have tried unsuccessfully to infiltrate Nissan.

No union at NIssan.... but go figure... people like working there with great conditions, great pay, and nice benefits.

That's a great way to keep the Unions out. When there's no need for them they won't exist anymore. However if it weren't for Unions do you actually think that Nissan would offer all that?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: rudder
They are all coming to Tennessee. We have Nissan... maybe Toyota now. But I bet they avoid hiring former union folks if they can. The unions have tried unsuccessfully to infiltrate Nissan.

No union at NIssan.... but go figure... people like working there with great conditions, great pay, and nice benefits.

That's a great way to keep the Unions out. When there's no need for them they won't exist anymore. However if it weren't for Unions do you actually think that Nissan would offer all that?

Do you realize if not for the unions American auto makers wouldnt be in this mess?

 

[umbrella39]

I know many families who have left SE Michigan to find a better life elsewhere since 2000, let's face it, things aren't looking good here. I know 100's of people who have been out of work for 4+ years who of course, don't count in the unemployment figures. Most of these people haven't the means to go back to school like I did. Instead of folding up and leaving I decided to pay to go back to college to be a respiratory therapist. Graduate in May. I will have my choice of hospitals when I graduate. You don't really even have to interview for these jobs. Places that you did your clinical rotations all offer you a job upon graduation and getting licensure. Beats the sh!t out of fighting 100 other people for 1 good job opening. But alas, I think I will, too, eventually flee for better weather. I've put in almost 40 years here though, I would like to what it is like to live somewhere else and won't feel guilty at all leaving Michigan behind me.

Edit: FFS Corn, talk about needing perspective. What exactly did Granholm tear down that Engler built up again? You are touting Engler's (any every other thinking person in Michigan's) position that we needed to protect the State from the inevitable Big 3 bust. Engler, Granholm, Blanchard, and Milliken have all tried to attract other, non-auto related business to Michigan. To suggest otherwise regarding Granholm is just partisan hackery on your part. Put down the gloves once in a while.

 

[TraumaRN]

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070207/BUSINESS06/70207023

More reason why this state is going down the tubes...all estimates say it will cost an extra 60-100 dollars per family...yet everyone I know is crazy hardcore against it...even if it means higher taxes elsewhere or a cut in social/state services...or higher prices for getting your driver's license renewed or whatnot...i mean seriously some of the people in this state want it to fall into ruin...liberals and republicans alike.

 

[boomerang]

A part time legislature would be a great example to the taxpayers of Michigan that they are intent on cutting the fat. I don't want to hear anything about tax increases until after they do that. Then I'll know they're serious.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I just listened to Granholm on the TV. She seems to think that the state's problem is that it needs better K-12 education and more help for people who want to go to college. What a moron! Of course, the public just gobbles this stuff. Instead, the state needs to focus on creating a better business climate and attracting businesses. In constrast, well-educated graduates can just pick up and leave the state.

So, that will be the legacy of the Granholm Administration--she accomplished almost nothing except raising taxes a little bit and plowing it into education. Just another idiot Democrat. I'm not sure if I'd rather have DeVos; at least he has, presumably, some business sense. It's too bad that he was a religious nut. Maybe next time the Republicans will field a better candidate.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
I just listened to Granholm on the TV. She seems to think that the state's problem is that it needs better K-12 education and more help for people who want to go to college. What a moron! Of course, the public just gobbles this stuff. Instead, the state needs to focus on creating a better business climate and attracting businesses. In constrast, well-educated graduates can just pick up and leave the state.

So, that will be the legacy of the Granholm Administration--she accomplished almost nothing except raising taxes a little bit and plowing it into education. Just another idiot Democrat. I'm not sure if I'd rather have DeVos; at least he has, presumably, some business sense. It's too bad that he was a religious nut. Maybe next time the Republicans will field a better candidate.

Devos=Amway=Devil.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I don't read the newspapers as often as I should...so I was surprised by this 60 Minutes shocker:

Michigans Department of Corrections accidentally killed (if not outright negligently or recklessly murdered) a mentally ill prisoner! The guy was kept in solitary confinement and he'd been chained to a bed for several hours each day. During the hot Summer, while presumably delusional, he rejected offerings of water and then died of dehydration. He was only 21 and was in prison for shoplifting and perhaps threatening a security guard. It was the second story after the Obama interview.

On top of that, the local newspapers recently reported about how a three year old in foster care was beaten to death by a foster caregiver.

Talk about changing the state's name to Michissippi.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

<Thread bump> Well, it looks like Michigan has lost out again--not that it was a serious contender--this time to it's lost out to...Mississippi!