Microft Admits: Xbox is Dieing...

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MacBaine

Banned
Aug 23, 2001
9,999
0
0
Maybe they should sto pselling games like "DOA 3", which I like to call "Clipping Fest 2002"
 

rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
7,064
0
0
Since the downfall of Atari, and the Japanese coming into the game, every American branded console has failed. Jaguar, 3do, Nuon, all failed. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see Xbox fail. Without tremendous Japanese support it is doomed. This is a FACT. Console afficiondos know this, PC pimps will deny it. Console mags, both US and Japan will put the Xbox thru the ringer. They did it with the Jaguar, they will do it with Xbox
 

Antoneo

Diamond Member
May 25, 2001
3,911
0
0


<<

<<

<< But PS2's momentum is accelerating. >>

Momentum can not accelerate, it is a scalar.
>>



actually its not, momentum is a mass times velocity where velocity is a vector quantity making mometum a vector
>>

Hmm, I stand corrected. But you see what I meant .
 

MrBond

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
9,911
0
76
In the weekly email newsletter I get from gamers.com, they were talking about the console wars. Actually, I'll post the messege after this one.

I still think the xbox needs time. The ps2 had one really noteable game going into a year after it's release (GT3), but more came out all at once, bumping the ps2 onto my "must buy" list.
 

MrBond

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
9,911
0
76
Here's that article:

CONSOLE PRICE WAR COMETH
People who wear suits and carry briefcases to work every day are
currently touting the possibility of a console price war. Given
the fact that by roughly the equivalent point in the original
PlayStation's life, it had already been slashed down to $199, it
seems fairly apparent that the potential for a price war erupting
soon is quite huge.

So what's stopping it? To be completely honest, from what people
have been telling me lately - it seems that we are. Consider
this...the installed base of the PS2 in the U.S. right now is 10
million - all of which were sold at $299. It took almost three
times longer for the original PlayStation to hit that same kind
of number.

Secondly, when the PS2 launched, our friends at Sony were making
a loss on every box they sold, and then making up for this with
the money that they make on software sales. As technology gallops
ever more crazily along though, manufacturing the PS2 gets
cheaper and all of a sudden, what used to be very expensive now,
well...ISN'T. You may have noticed earlier this week that Sony
announced that they can squeeze all of the Graphics Synthesizer
and Emotion Engine goodness onto a single chip, presumably by
using some kind of voodoo magic:
http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePkT0DdZ7K0GJu0jGm0AY

While all this funky stuff has been going on though, our demand
hasn't abated one bit. Now we're in the situation of lapping up
lots of PS2's and Sony is very happy with the speed of that
lapping, thank you. Typically a price drop is necessitated by
competition or a drop in demand...and right now, let's face it,
if you were Sony - would you cut the price?

The competition is nowhere near touching you, there are tons of
cool games that are driving demand up, and you're making dough.
It's easy money right now...and why mess with that?

So far, management at Sony CEA has categorically stated that a
price drop won't happen any time soon - however, the competition
is now being a lot more bullish about what it's prepared to do
when it comes to pricing:
http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePkT0DdZ7K0GJu0gQk0Ad

So what could happen over the next few months? Anything really. I
certainly don't have any Nostradamus-like powers that allow me to
prophesize the future - but I am perfectly capable of taking some
wild stabs in the dark and freaking you all out with some dumb
prediction. Call them hypotheses, call them guesses, call them
whatever you like. Call them stupid if you really feel that way.
Here are the five possibilities I can envision. Take it all with as big a
pinch of salt as you dare:

1. MICROSOFT GIVES AWAY XBOXES
-Microsoft launches its broadband strategy and pushes new users
to sign up for a monthly subscription service by giving the Xbox
away "free" as part of the deal, much like a cell phone provider
giving "free" phones away with contract sign-up.

-Is it likely? Well...Microsoft has deep pockets, and arguably
could front such a deal if it meant the company would receieve
guaranteed income every month from everyone that wanted to play
new games. If it doesn't happen soon, this is the kind of thing
that could end up happening in the future.

-The reaction? Similar deals from Sony, no doubt - and a price
drop from Nintendo. Chances are that "standalone" PS2s or Xboxes
wouldn't be reduced in price just as standalone cell phones are
ludicrously expensive if you don't sign them onto a calling plan.
If you don't believe this - just check out the price difference
of a Handspring Treo with and without a Cingular calling plan:
http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePkT0DdZ7K0GJu0CKG0AL

2. SONY CREATES PS2.5
-Sony doesn't drop the price of the PS2, but creates a "new"
machine that has the hard drive and broadband adapter built in,
but for the same price of $299. Or, alternatively - for even
cheaper.

-Is it likely? I don't know about you, but this is something that
strikes me as quite possible - especially to get around the
piecemeal nature of getting a PS2 up to the same tech spec as an
Xbox. For new owners who want to get in on the action this year
it will make a lot of sense. For the rest of us, if we want to
take part we'll still have to buy the extra bits and plug 'em in.

-The reaction? Microsoft would almost certainly react to this by
doing one of two things, namely a) holding out and saying, "look
what they had to do, just to be like us" or b) they'd twist the
knife and cut the price to $249 or $199. Nintendo could hold
tight at $199 or drop their price as they've already indicated.
Would Sony CEA drop the price of a PS2 that came without all of
the extra stuff? It's possible.

3. SONY CUTS PRICE OF PS2
-Sony cuts the price of the PS2 to $199 in the summer, thus
making a PS2 with an online adapter $50 cheaper than Xbox.

-Is it likely? This one gets my vote for most likely...but it
also is the most brutal way of declaring all-out war on
Microsoft. So far everyone has been getting along so nicely.

-The reaction? A price war, something that ultimately is pretty
good for all of us as consumers. Microsoft would cut the price of
the Xbox immediately and I'm sure Nintendo would stick to their
word and cut back too.

4. MICROSOFT PREEMPTIVELY DROPS PRICES ON XBOX
-Microsoft pre-empts Sony at E3 in May and out of the blue
announces a price drop to $199. It also throws in the new
controller to prove that the company "gets it".

-Is it likely? If Microsoft wants to accelerate the speed at
which folks adopt the Xbox, you have to consider this as
something that's extremely possible. Given that the back half of
2002 has a ton of cool Xbox games in it (notably Knights of the
Old Republic, Project Ego, Brute Force, the Sega stuff) Microsoft
would hit the ground running for the holiday season with such a
proposition.

-The reaction? As above...an all out price war ensues, only with
the additional effect of Sony being really aggressive because it
didn't get to make the first move. Sony being aggressive would
only be good for us though, because it means stuff would get
cheaper.

5. THE ZERO EFFECT
-Nothing happens. Everything stays as it is and we all keep
buying PS2s anyway.

-Is it likely? I guess it could be...but it won't last.

-The reaction? I dunno...what do you think? Complete ambivalence
I guess. That and we all keep paying the same prices for
everything.


What do you think the odds are? Feel free to come online and
discuss it:
http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePkT0DdZ7K0GJu0e6q0AG
 

LH

Golden Member
Feb 16, 2002
1,604
0
0
Actually the installed PS2 user base is more around 7million in the North American market. Xbox's is over 2million. Everyone says console live and die in Japan, but its actually the other way around, they live and die by the US market. The US console market it will be THREE times the size of the Japanese market this year, and projections for future years show the US console market continuing to outgrow everyother market on a yearly basis. The Jaguar failed because 1. it was way to expensive in the US. 2. it was hard to program for, probably more so than the PS2. 3. it was developed by a company with not much cash.

MS on the other hand has $62billion in total reserves, and as someone else said, continue to rake in the dough. The Xbox isnt dying it continues to outsell the GC in the North American market, it has an avg of 4.5 games sold per unit(even after 6 months). While the GC and PS2 have under 2. The Xbox could very well be the most successful console ever in the american market by the end of 2003. If MS has a strong E3 presence, and continues its pace, MS will be a strong #2 in the console market come Christmas.

Also MS doesnt own MSNBC, NBC owns majority.
 

rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
7,064
0
0


<< Actually the installed PS2 user base is more around 7million in the North American market. Xbox's is over 2million. Everyone says console live and die in Japan, but its actually the other way around, they live and die by the US market. The US console market it will be THREE times the size of the Japanese market this year, and projections for future years show the US console market continuing to outgrow everyother market on a yearly basis. The Jaguar failed because 1. it was way to expensive in the US. 2. it was hard to program for, probably more so than the PS2. 3. it was developed by a company with not much cash. >>



That is not true AT ALL. The Japanese will dump a console in a heartbeat if the console does poor domestically. The saturn was a failure in the US, but a mild success in Japan and SEGA continued, the Dreamcast was a failure in Japan, and a mild success in the US. They folded and went multi-platform as a software publisher. Had the Dreamcast did well domestically, SEGA would still be in the console bizness today. PS2 sold almost 1 million consoles on the first three days of sale in Japan, Xbox did like 200k. The Japanese will frown on that.

I've been playing consoles since I was 12 yrs old, I know exactly how this industry works. And everyone knows that if the console fails to capture the hearts of Japanese gamers, it is likely to fail.
 

dionx

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
3,500
1
81


<<
That is not true AT ALL. The Japanese will dump a console in a heartbeat if the console does poor domestically. The saturn was a failure in the US, but a mild success in Japan and SEGA continued, the Dreamcast was a failure in Japan, and a mild success in the US. They folded and went multi-platform as a software publisher. Had the Dreamcast did well domestically, SEGA would still be in the console bizness today. PS2 sold almost 1 million consoles on the first three days of sale in Japan, Xbox did like 200k. The Japanese will frown on that.
>>



if the dreamcast was a failure in japan, why do new games still come out for it as oppossed to bringing those games to the other consoles. and why does the dreamcast in japan get the cool games like shenmue 2 and space channel 5 part 2 etc etc. i think it was a success in japan.
 

Shantanu

Banned
Feb 6, 2001
2,197
1
0
Can someone please explain to me what the fsck the point of this thread this?

Other than the obvious fact that some oriental boy is upset that his Daddy back in Japan might be out of a job in a few years since Microsoft is making consolesnow

First generation games for the X-Box obviously don't exploit all of the system's resources. Even if PS2 looks like it might be in the same league as X-Box, a year from now it will just look horribly dated. PS2's sales have only one place to go: down. X-Box sales will continue to climb, especially with (likely) price cuts.

The U.S. accounts for 25% of the world's economy. If Microsoft's X-Box is a success here, it is a success period. I don't think any new consoles are coming out for at least 2 years. For then, it will be just X-Box, PS2, and GameCube. The X-Box has a crushing lead over the other two when it comes to online gaming feasibility. I've heard that internet access (especially broadband access) is not as widespread in Europe and Japan, so that may explain the lower sales there. But in the end, it's irrelevant. Microsoft can sell plenty of X-Box's here, and still make lots of money.

Even if they don't, they can afford to take the risk. If Sony's PS2's don't sell well they will go bankrupt. If Gamecube doesn't sell well, Nintendo is finished as a company.
 

rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
7,064
0
0


<< if the dreamcast was a failure in japan, why do new games still come out for it as oppossed to bringing those games to the other consoles. and why does the dreamcast in japan get the cool games like shenmue 2 and space channel 5 part 2 etc etc. i think it was a success in japan. >>



So? SEGA exited the hardware business. Those games were already in development before the demise of the Dreamcast. Dreamcast sold poorly in Japan. The original Playstation outsold the Dreamcast, this was during the entire Dreamcast life. PSX sales were higher.



<< Even if they don't, they can afford to take the risk. If Sony's PS2's don't sell well they will go bankrupt. If Gamecube doesn't sell well, Nintendo is finished as a company. >>



Microsoft can throw all the money they want, doesn't mean it will succeed. Nintendo is not finished if GC isnt a success. Nintendo is a company with no debt, and a whole lotta money in the bank. All their toy licenses and portables could sustain them. The jury is still out on the Xbox. If they get bad press at E3, or if everyone leaves commenting "everything looks like a PC game" it will be very tough for them
 

777php

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2001
3,498
0
0
Other than the obvious fact that some oriental boy is upset that his Daddy back in Japan might be out of a job in a few years since Microsoft is making consolesnow

Haven't we discussed the usage of this word and its negative connotation enought that people would stop using it?
 
Apr 5, 2000
13,256
1
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<< comon

Xbox may not be dying, but it had a real tough job on it's hands when it was released soo much later than the ps2. only chance they woulda had is if it had been released BEFORE ps2. Nintendo also is hurting but because of GBA and the kids games on gamecube nintendo will stay around. basically it's PS2 and gamecube from here on out. Why would anyone buy an XBox. i just don't get it.
>>



You know XBox outsold the Gamecube within the first month it was released and GC has never passed it since then, right? The GC is a failing console that will go the way of the Dreamcast in a year or two. XBox will never catch up with PS2 - their only hope is XBox2 vs PS3
 

Danman

Lifer
Nov 9, 1999
13,134
0
0


<< additionally, i would think that MS is having some distribution problems

everytime i go to BB i ask if they have any xboxes. they tell me they sell out the day they stock them

same for walmart. everybodys got PS2's stocked but i guess xbox cant keep up

my thinking: the demand is there but supply isnt fuffilling it....even at $300 each.
>>



BS, I just went to Best Buy and they were full of them, I talked to one of the game guys there and he told me they are really not selling. I don't know what crack you is smokin Andrew.
 

AaronP

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
4,359
0
0
That this article is published by a Microsoft-owned website is all the more important. This is an admission of absolute failure by Microsoft itself.

yeah right
 

joeryu

Golden Member
Sep 14, 2000
1,678
0
0


<< Even if they don't, they can afford to take the risk. If Sony's PS2's don't sell well they will go bankrupt. If Gamecube doesn't sell well, Nintendo is finished as a company. >>



Nintendo is probably the most profitable of the 3; so even if the gamecube fails (which it definitely wont) it wont affect them.
 

olouie

Golden Member
Sep 19, 2001
1,678
0
0
Shantanu, you sir are talking out of your arse....

why would sony go out of business cause of the PS2? ever heard of TVs, Computers, Radios, CD, Walkmans, Cameras, etc etc - SONY IS HUGE

MS does not make any money on the xboxs it sells (loses money) and only makes money on software lincesing

Nentindo will do just fine, their niche is strong.

ah well you must be just another little boy who hopes xbox will do ok so your daddy's can keep on feeding the kids.
 

Yzzim

Lifer
Feb 13, 2000
11,990
1
76
Hmm.........I just traded for an Xbox and bought a PS2 the other day on the FS/FT forum. Maybe I should Ebay both the Xbox and PS2 and buy them in a month when the price drop happens...
 
Aug 16, 2001
22,505
4
81
What's the hype about X-Box anyway? Look at this comparison:

X-Box:
Graphics - OK
Speed - <1GHz
Sound - Good
Ease of use - Very good
Future upgrade - :Q

PC:
Graphics - Much better than X-Box
Speed - Usually >1GHz
Sound - You set the limit
Future upgrade -


Edit: Initial table looked like :disgust:
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
1
76


<< What's the hype about X-Box anyway? Look at this comparison:

X-Box:
Graphics - OK
Speed - <1GHz
Sound - Good
Ease of use - Very good
Future upgrade - :Q

PC:
Graphics - Much better than X-Box
Speed - Usually >1GHz
Sound - You set the limit
Future upgrade -


Edit: Initial table looked like :disgust:
>>




You're a idiot. You can't compare consoles to a PC. They're for a different purpose. Can you get 3 friends on the couch around your computer to play football? It would probably suck if you could. Can you get any decent fighting games for the PC?

Go away.
 
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