Microsoft and Sony could be ‘hostile’ to AMD’s Mantle API, Carmack says

[Xarick]

Most people hate ea because they buy studios and then close them down.. effectively destroying some of our favorite developers.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

*cough* Gamestorm *cough*

 

[raghu78]

Mantle is a unique pc low level graphics API. It does not exist on the next gen consoles. It was developed by Dice with help from AMD.

Yes, if we believe that Microsoft and Sony using the same software stack for their graphics API. :\

don't be so sure. anandtech has said Mantle could be the Xbox One's graphics API ported to PC

http://anandtech.com/show/7371/understanding-amds-mantle-a-lowlevel-graphics-api-for-gcn

"What’s not being said, but what becomes increasingly hinted at as we read through AMD’s material, is not just that Mantle is a low level API, but rather Mantle is the low level API. As in it’s either a direct copy or a very close derivative of the Xbox One’s low level graphics API. All of the pieces are there;

AMD will tell you from the start that Mantle is designed to leverage the optimization work done for games on the next generation consoles, and furthermore Mantle can even use the Direct3D High Level Shader Language (HLSL), the high level shader language Xbox One shaders will be coded against in the first place.

Let’s be very clear here: AMD will not discuss the matter let alone confirm it, so this is speculation on our part. But it’s speculation that we believe is well grounded. Based on what we know thus far, we believe Mantle is the Xbox One’s low level API brought to the PC."

guess what AMD's official twitter account says

https://twitter.com/AMDRadeon/status/383349757428506624

"Curious about Mantle? anandtech's article is an excellent summary of our newly introduced technology"

if anandtech was wrong why would AMD say its an excellent summary of Mantle. So AMD is hinting that anandtech is right. It does not require a rocket scientist to figure that Mantle is in fact the low level graphics API of Xbox One ported to PC.

 

[Yarn]

Nvidia is a broken and beaten company, devoid of ideas or hope. Tegra is failing, Geforce just got...conroe'd?

That's mighty big talk there. You sound a lot like charlie.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally Posted by SiliconWars
Nvidia is a broken and beaten company, devoid of ideas or hope. Tegra is failing, Geforce just got...conroe'd?

That's mighty big talk there. You sound a lot like charlie.

It's like he's not even on the same planet. I have no clue where he gets these thoughts.

 

[desprado]

i have to say Nvidia has lost its focus on games and now AMD main Priority is games which hurting Nvidia.Nvidia need to stop there bullshit projects and focus games only which should its main priority.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I don't think nvidia is in that much trouble. They still have the HPC market to fall back on for now.

I do agree that maybe going after the mobile space is a losing battle for them. They can't compete with Qualcomm and Intel there. As far as PC gaming sales we'll just have to wait and see, but by not going after a console contract with more gusto they may have unwittingly made their life difficult moving forward.

 

[desprado]

I don't think nvidia is in that much trouble. They still have the HPC market to fall back on for now.

I do agree that maybe going after the mobile space is a losing battle for them. They can't compete with Qualcomm and Intel there. As far as PC gaming sales we'll just have to wait and see, but by not going after a console contract with more gusto they may have unwittingly made their life difficult moving forward.

My point is AMD games are top on sale like TB 2013,Hitman,Sleeping Dogs,Crysis 3 and now upcoming most advanced tech game BF4 is with AMD what i mean is most high tech demanding are now shifting to AMD if it countine than of course i will be shifting to AMD and why the hell i will buy Nvidia cards if they are not providing high tech games support.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

My point is AMD games are top on sale like TB 2013,Hitman,Sleeping Dogs,Crysis 3 and now upcoming most advanced tech game BF4 is with AMD what i mean is most high tech demanding are now shifting to AMD if it countine than of course i will be shifting to AMD and why the hell i will buy Nvidia cards if they are not providing high tech games support.

Meh, nvidia has some good ones coming too. Witcher 3 mainly. That game is going to be amazing, but sell a fraction of what BF4 does.

 

[smackababy]

Meh, nvidia has some good ones coming too. Witcher 3 mainly. That game is going to be amazing, but sell a fraction of what BF4 does.

However, both combined will see a fraction of COD: Ghosts will will have PhysX

 

[SPBHM]

However, both combined will see a fraction of COD: Ghosts will will have PhysX

will it have GPU PhysX on the consoles? maybe I'm wrong, but on the PC COD is not that much bigger than Battlefield?

 

[VulgarDisplay]

However, both combined will see a fraction of COD: Ghosts will will have PhysX

Yeah you realize that COD on PC will sell like 5000 copies. lololol

BF4 is going to dominate on PC.

 

[SiliconWars]

It's like he's not even on the same planet. I have no clue where he gets these thoughts.

Where is Nvidia's response? They've had days to put out any kind of response - official or not - and so far we've not heard a peep from anyone. They long since turned themselves into a failed smartphone company, gave up on gamers and now have been completely blindsided by the boldest move in the history of gaming. They have no response - they are simply left hoping that AMD messes up again to save their skins.

I actually hope that their upcoming big secret is really good but I doubt it. It would be great if they have developed some benefit to gaming that wasn't a graphics card, as has been suggested. Then we can all happily get on playing with our Nvidia peripheral on our AMD cards (I have zero doubt that anything Nvidia has developed will only work on Geforces). Sadly I don't believe Nvidia is capable of any kind of quality technology, it's just pure marketing BS that comes out of the company. Losing all the consoles, releasing crap like Shield and being forced to make their own tablets because nobody wants T4, on top of that they are being kicked out of Macs left, right and centre even to Intel's Iris Pro...how can you not see this company is failing badly?

 

[GaiaHunter]

...
No, they dont deal with architectures. That's the reason why we can play 10 year old games like Half Life 2 on hardware like Titan.

Even then a high level API is necessary for people who dont want to go deeper and only want to realize certain effects.

Which mean you need to develop a Mantle path. Without it, Frostbite is not better or worse than any other Engine.

Of course DirectX deals with different architectures of cards - GCN, Kepler, Fermi, G80, Evegreen, R700, GT200 and on and on.

Now it deals with those architectures by being abstract, meaning it ignores the architecture and it is NVIDIA and AMD that need to make drivers that allow their architectures to work with DX. And if the architectures don't support a certain DX feature, either hardware or software wise, it has to use older DX paths.

It is obvious that one need to develop a mantle path but it is also obvious that AMD expects the xbone and the PS4 path will provide the heavy work for the mantle path.

 

[monstercameron]

Where is Nvidia's response? They've had days to put out any kind of response - official or not - and so far we've not heard a peep from anyone. They long since turned themselves into a failed smartphone company, gave up on gamers and now have been completely blindsided by the boldest move in the history of gaming. They have no response - they are simply left hoping that AMD messes up again to save their skins.

I actually hope that their upcoming big secret is really good but I doubt it. It would be great if they have developed some benefit to gaming that wasn't a graphics card, as has been suggested. Then we can all happily get on playing with our Nvidia peripheral on our AMD cards (I have zero doubt that anything Nvidia has developed will only work on Geforces). Sadly I don't believe Nvidia is capable of any kind of quality technology, it's just pure marketing BS that comes out of the company. Losing all the consoles, releasing crap like Shield and being forced to make their own tablets because nobody wants T4, on top of that they are being kicked out of Macs left, right and centre even to Intel's Iris Pro...how can you not see this company is failing badly?

i wouldn't say that they are a failing company and this has happened before, this isnt the first time they got forced out of market, remember when nvidia made mobo chipsets?

IMHO nvidia seems to have plans to leave the dGPU space if they no longer find it profitable by licensing their gfx IP a la vivante and imgtech.

 

[Gloomy]

Where is Nvidia's response? They've had days to put out any kind of response - official or not - and so far we've not heard a peep from anyone. They long since turned themselves into a failed smartphone company, gave up on gamers and now have been completely blindsided by the boldest move in the history of gaming. They have no response - they are simply left hoping that AMD messes up again to save their skins.

I actually hope that their upcoming big secret is really good but I doubt it. It would be great if they have developed some benefit to gaming that wasn't a graphics card, as has been suggested. Then we can all happily get on playing with our Nvidia peripheral on our AMD cards (I have zero doubt that anything Nvidia has developed will only work on Geforces). Sadly I don't believe Nvidia is capable of any kind of quality technology, it's just pure marketing BS that comes out of the company. Losing all the consoles, releasing crap like Shield and being forced to make their own tablets because nobody wants T4, on top of that they are being kicked out of Macs left, right and centre even to Intel's Iris Pro...how can you not see this company is failing badly?

I'm pretty sure Nvidia is being used in the reference SteamBox (and probably ALL SteamBoxes). Seeing as how AMD's Linux driver and OpenGL support is so pathetic, I highly doubt any sane company would rely on an AMD+Linux combination.

 

[monstercameron]

I'm pretty sure Nvidia is being used in the reference SteamBox (and probably ALL SteamBoxes). Seeing as how AMD's Linux driver and OpenGL support is so pathetic, I highly doubt any sane company would rely on an AMD+Linux combination.

please provide some proof of this...cuz I am sure you are just saying to bash amd. fglrx is no where as bad as internet people make it out to be...

 

[seitur]

please provide some proof of this...cuz I am sure you are just saying to bash amd. fglrx is no where as bad as internet people make it out to be...

Try searching through

WineHQ
SteamLinux games forums
Phoronix
Dota2 Linux dev forum
Ubuntu forums
AMD Developer Central - Steam Linux

People running AMD GPUs report lower FPS that people with comparable NV or Intel GPUs. Also graphic glitches are more often and require user to slash graphic setting such as shadows, shaders, etc to avoid glitches or crashes.

Search how long people having 7xxx series or Richland APUs had to wait decent drivers. Besides still users with HD 7xxx cards get worse performance on Linux that people with HD 6xxx cards even though 7 series are stronger.

etc


Sorry, but AMD need to put alot more resources to Linux drivers. They are very behind Intel and NVidia on Linux in this matter.

Now recent cherry from AMD Linux driver team:

You should continue using AMD Catalyst 13.8 Beta for Linux. We mistakenly posted a Linux AMD Catalyst 13.9 driver, which was older than the AMD Catalyst 13.8 Beta driver. Linux users can expect a new Linux driver coming in Oct, 2013

rotfl



I really WANT AMD to succeed, but their Linux drivers are just bad, especially if you do NOT have HD 6xxx GPUs whihc are only ones that are relatively decently supported.

 

[DarkKnightDude]

However, both combined will see a fraction of COD Ghosts will will have PhysX

Well, a few years back I would have agreed, but this year BF4 will out stomp anything on PC, mark my words.

 

[Gloomy]

please provide some proof of this...cuz I am sure you are just saying to bash amd. fglrx is no where as bad as internet people make it out to be...

https://dolphin-emu.org/blog/2013/09/26/dolphin-emulator-and-opengl-drivers-hall-fameshame/

This is from two days ago. I am sure if you Googled (I'm not going to lol ) you can find older complaints.

The quality of the code in the userland AMD driver looks horrible from the outside: using valgrind on a program using the AMD driver causes valgrind to complain about the large number of errors (ioctls using unintialized structures, access to unintialized memory). In some error cases, instead of reporting an error to the caller, the AMD driver will simply call exit(123) and kill the whole application. This kind of issues impacted SDL 1.3: calling XCloseDisplay caused the driver to exit. A workaround was put in place later in SDL 2.0 to avoid this problem which should have never happened in the first place. Fun fact: this bug was found while writing a minimal program that reproduce the mipmapping issue…

lol, this is classic AMD. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[Jaydip]

Pity it runs like donkey..

Which is weird, because comparing it with Shogun 2.. I noticed Rome 2 has much better or higher cpu utilization in all things. Loading for instance S2 uses only 1 thread, whereas Rome will use at least two for me (fully).

Same thing in campaign/battlefield, S2 continually has lower usage, but it runs at a higher FPS.

I think CA went buck wild with animations, or maybe not I can't say for sure but what I can say is Rome uses more cpu for less performance, Shogun 2 uses less CPU which results in longer load times, but it can produce more FPS with less usage at the same time.

Empire was Intel, Shogun 2 was AMD, Rome 2 is Intel... Not sure what Napoleon was...

Either way would have really liked to see support for AVX/2/FMA3 instead of just additional graphics features... But I heard the game runs well on the HD4600 at the same time.

Don't you get better performance now Balla after the patch?

 

[BFG10K]

Duplicate - Super Moderator BFG10K.