Microsoft is committing suicide with Windows 8

[Zaap]

Have you not seen how OS X has more and more features infused in it from iOS?

Yes, we've seen how Apple understands UI design FAR better than MS. If you notice, Apple doesn't do anything stupid like try and graft the iOS interface over top of the OSX desktop and try to force it as the default. They made a logical app store, not try to have iOS apps in full screen on the desktop, and then regular OSX apps mixed in. (Which would do nothing but frustrate tablet users and piss off desktop users.) One doesn't pick up an iPad and find themselves dropping into a traditional desktop with desktop apps (the way tablet W8 users will) because again, that would be a klunky forced-fusion of two things that shouldn't be fused.

Apple understands you can fuse the FEATURES of both things and make them work together, without trying to stupidly force the INTERFACE of both things together. (See the difference?) That's where them actually having experience at making both things successfully and well (unlike MS with tablets, and now working on OS's) and actually having talented devs that still understand interface design comes in handy.

 

[N4g4rok]

Apple understands you can fuse the FEATURES of both things and make them work together, without trying to stupidly force the INTERFACE of both things together. (See the difference?) That's where them actually having experience at making both things successfully and well (unlike MS with tablets, and now working on OS's) and actually having talented devs that still understand interface design comes in handy.

Can't agree with that. Most tablet users won't be dropped into the desktop environment at all with windows 8. Most of the tablet-based options will be found in the metro version of the control panel, not the desktop one. Uninstalling metro applications is done from the start screen, along with managing user accounts, reformat/reinstall, and themes. Unless any work with devices, printers, ease of access or advanced administrative tasks need to be done, the tablet user won't see the typical windows desktop if they don't want to.

Why MS is combining tablet and desktop OS in one ? , why not create separate OS for each device, like they do with window editions.

Why not create some sort of 'modes' to run in, just like windows server have gui and simple (core) modes.

They idea is to have one windows to rule them all. Which is an interesting idea, but like you suggested, warrants a little more compatibility. Windows 8 is perfectly functional as a desktop OS, and reverse to the above, you can run it without ever having to deal with the start screen if you spend some time in the control panel. It's just a shame that it will feel so much like finding a workaround.

Keep in mind though, the developer capabilities are leagues ahead of previous versions of windows. Considering the size of the windows marketshare, i doubt it will be long before said community comes up with clever tricks to deal with the early frustrations.

 

[Dominato3r]

Why MS is combining tablet and desktop OS in one ? , why not create separate OS for each device, like they do with window editions.

Why not create some sort of 'modes' to run in, just like windows server have gui and simple (core) modes.

What are they trying to do

Is it possible they see too much of a future for tablets, and want to take advantage of having already a large user base in desktops, so that when those desktop users begin to go tables, they would pick the OS that they are comfortable with, in this case would be Windows.

What incentive would there be for a developer to create a metro app then?

And your last paragraph is essentially why they are doing this. There is no alternative to windows in the mainstream. You want a $500 laptop but no windows 8? Well the next closest hardware from the competition is more than $400 more, people are locked in.

 

[Red Squirrel]

They're also trying to kill the desktop, like the rest of the industry. It's BS to me but it's all about capitalism. If the industry succeeds in killing the desktop PC, every "computer" device will no longer be modular and will be tied to a single embedded OS. It breaks, you buy a new one. You want more memory you buy a new one. They also want to get rid of servers in the process so that everything can be in the "cloud". Only server hardware that will exist will be retarded expensive and only used for clouds. I'm hoping that I'm wrong but it seems to be the direction the industry is pushing for.

I really hate the direction things are going. Tablets and all that are fine as accessories and have their uses, but to completely replace the desktop? F that.

 

[OlafSicky]

They're also trying to kill the desktop, like the rest of the industry. It's BS to me but it's all about capitalism. If the industry succeeds in killing the desktop PC, every "computer" device will no longer be modular and will be tied to a single embedded OS. It breaks, you buy a new one. You want more memory you buy a new one. They also want to get rid of servers in the process so that everything can be in the "cloud". Only server hardware that will exist will be retarded expensive and only used for clouds. I'm hoping that I'm wrong but it seems to be the direction the industry is pushing for.

I really hate the direction things are going. Tablets and all that are fine as accessories and have their uses, but to completely replace the desktop? F that.

100% agree with you there they also want a steady stream of cash $$$ "the cloud" will cost you on monthly basis and the will be able to look at the content etc. face recognition it's big brothers and capitalist wet dream.

 

[HeXen]

Power users can freely switch to linux, but average people won't. I just don't see Best Buy ever bothering to stock a Linux machine in their stores, they tried that already when netbooks first came out and it failed spectacularly.

that is more to do with lack of commercial support than anything. Got to have devs making apps, thats all there is to it. As it is now, its mostly just community projects which don't always get consistant updates. Android is the perfect example, taking linux and marketing the crap out of it and getting it into consumers hands through the hardware makers, not vice versa.
Hardware makers themselves can't really do anything, slapping it onto their Netbooks but unable to really back the OS with software and updates. 2 seperate things.

 

[ViRGE]

Desktop sales are in hard decline. Tablets and laptops dominate the average user market atm.

Very true. But laptops are not tablets. Metro is just as awkward on most laptop computers as it is desktop computers. In both cases the hardware is best suited for dealing with the desktop paradigm.

Have you not seen how OS X has more and more features infused in it from iOS? You are simply delaying the inevitable at that point. Just take a look at calendar and address book in OS X Lion and Mountain Lion. To me, I find that stuff FAR more egregious than Metro because there is absolutely no utility in faux leather or making a desktop app look like a real address book (which most people under 30 have never seen before in real life!).

Apple is a bit weird, but generally speaking all of the iOS-like features they've infused into Mac OS X are purely optional. LaunchPad (the iOS-like application launcher) can be completely skipped, and indeed you have to find it to turn it on in the first place. The same cannot be said of the Metro start screen.

 

[hhhd1]

Very true. But laptops are not tablets. Metro is just as awkward on most laptop computers as it is desktop computers. In both cases the hardware is best suited for dealing with the desktop paradigm.

I agree, laptops are not tablets, regular laptops are closer to being a desktop.
Laptops are just desktops that are more convenient to carry around and handle.
Convertible laptops are a different story.

The same issues of windows 8 on desktops apply to laptops.



on a different note, I found this today:

 

[dguy6789]

It won't be too long until every single new laptop has a touch screen either. Maybe two years.

 

[Dominato3r]

It won't be too long until every single new laptop has a touch screen either. Maybe two years.

I was reading an article that quoted someone from Microsoft saying they expect ~80% of PC shipments to have some touch screen component a year after windows 8 launch. Whether that was for both desktop and laptop or laptop only I don't remember

But the point is that escaped from a touch screen is going to become harder and harder

 

[stevech]

As a business and personal PC user, and having owned touch-screen laptops, I'll join in the chorus that says "Microsoft is committing suicide..".

They're letting their executive egos (worrying about consumer handhelds), get in the way of their bread and butter income future.

 

[GrumpyMan]

Hold your arms up for 8 to 10 hours straight and tell me that you would like to do that on a touch screen every single day at your job. Not me.

 

[dagamer34]

100% agree with you there they also want a steady stream of cash $$$ "the cloud" will cost you on monthly basis and the will be able to look at the content etc. face recognition it's big brothers and capitalist wet dream.

Running an app store doesn't make Apple any money, and I don't see how it would make Microsoft any money either. In the 4 years since the launch of the iOS App Store, Apple has generated $2 billion in revenue ($5 billion paid out to developers after 30% cut means $7 billion total, or ~$2 billion to Apple). Spread that out, and it's about $125 million per quarter. I'm pretty sure they spend at least that much on running their existing data centers, never mind the fact they dropped $1 billion on their North Carolina one. App stores are not profit centers. They exist for the hardware.

As for the rest of your rant, please insert a period somewhere.

 

[dagamer34]

Very true. But laptops are not tablets. Metro is just as awkward on most laptop computers as it is desktop computers. In both cases the hardware is best suited for dealing with the desktop paradigm.
Apple is a bit weird, but generally speaking all of the iOS-like features they've infused into Mac OS X are purely optional. LaunchPad (the iOS-like application launcher) can be completely skipped, and indeed you have to find it to turn it on in the first place. The same cannot be said of the Metro start screen.

Even if you could skip it like in OS X, I think the real issue here is quite simple. Apple and Microsoft are no longer building features that arguably target the "power user" crowd. No one used Media Center or Spaces or Back to My Mac. Those features are rather obscure. Extremely helpful, but obscure. And that's why people are mad.

People aren't saying "I won't use this feature but I'm sure someone else will", they are saying "I wont use this feature, I wish it was never in Windows and I hope Microsoft burns in hell". That just seems extremely short sighted and entitled to me.

 

[HeXen]

Very true. But laptops are not tablets. Metro is just as awkward on most laptop computers as it is desktop computers. In both cases the hardware is best suited for dealing with the desktop paradigm./QUOTE]

i know, thats why i'm saying it doesn't matter, there is no choice. Their not going to use Linux for the reasons i mentioned. For Dell, Acer..etc. their options are W8 or W8.
sad yes, but like i said, it would take a software giant to provide a spring board to get developers making apps for Linux, which means a special distro like what Google did for phones.
maybe similar such for Laptops, but i don't think they find the situation too serious to try just yet. IF MS's OS isn't selling hardware too well, then perhaps Google would jump in with an Android more suitable for a higher resoltuion desktop. There are ports for Android to x86 but they don't seem to popular

 

[hhhd1]

People aren't saying "I won't use this feature but I'm sure someone else will", they are saying "I wont use this feature, I wish it was never in Windows and I hope Microsoft burns in hell". That just seems extremely short sighted and entitled to me.

How can you not use metro in windows 8 ? one way or the other, you will find yourself having to use it.

 

[happysmiles]

the power user is no longer needed.
The PC industry was going to change no matter what, as much as we like it how it is, we don't make the decisions.
KB+Mouse has been perfected, Win 7 & Snow Leopard were top notch.

Although when I used RP, it was nice not to immediately tweak it like I have to with Win 7.
I often forget though that A LOT of people don't know much about PCs, even those who've grown up with it, I spend so much time on forums that when I try talk to workmates about Computers (under category:hobbies) the blank look they get is astonishing so I can see why Microsoft wants to simplify and cater for those people, at the same time there isn't balance in Metro, only Desktop because Win 8 feels like a transition OS.

 

[Jaskalas]

Hold your arms up for 8 to 10 hours straight and tell me that you would like to do that on a touch screen every single day at your job. Not me.

I don't think anyone would / should expect you to do that. A touch screen would most likely NOT be standing up like a regular one.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

No boot to desktop for you:
http://www.techspot.com/news/49669-...om-hiding-metro-start-screen-after-logon.html

 

[Jaskalas]

No boot to desktop for you:
http://www.techspot.com/news/49669-...om-hiding-metro-start-screen-after-logon.html

Are they actively trying not to get my $40?

I've a radical idea here: Windows 7 is Microsoft's last desktop OS. From 8 on it's just some legacy app for the Metro OS.

 

[abaez]

I couldn't find the good old windows classic games, .. need to login to online account and download some big stuff, just to be a be able to play solitaire or minesweeper on full screen, YAY!

No minesweeper no buy for me.

 

[pelov]

In order for touch to replace the mouse and keyboard then the touchscreens and touch-based GUIs have to be as efficient, quick and easy enough to do that. ATM, they're cumbersome, inaccurate and the GUIs don't help. If you've got a tablet then you know that they're not suited for longterm use, particularly for productivity purposes. Typing up a lengthy email or paper on a tablet is an absolute headache and the reduction in screen real estate only makes that worse. There is no better personal movie watching device, but as soon as you're asked to do some work on it you're going to be pulling your hair out. Desktops and laptops with touchpads/keyboards and mice aren't going anywhere. Somebody has to create the applications for tablets and it sure as hell isn't going to happen on a tablet

Can't agree with that. Most tablet users won't be dropped into the desktop environment at all with windows 8. Most of the tablet-based options will be found in the metro version of the control panel, not the desktop one. Uninstalling metro applications is done from the start screen, along with managing user accounts, reformat/reinstall, and themes. Unless any work with devices, printers, ease of access or advanced administrative tasks need to be done, the tablet user won't see the typical windows desktop if they don't want to.

Office, Microsoft's biggest application for the average user, doesn't work well on the tablet. Even with ribbon the buttons are too small. The settings can be difficult to reach and the touch-based keyboard is wonky.

The control panel is also not Metro-fied. It's still in desktop mode and nigh impossible to accurately modify via touch.

Certain applications on Metro that have desktop counterparts require that you use the desktop app in order to get to the settings that the Metro version has hidden.

Multi-tasking on Metro is still impossible unless you've got the right combination of applications open. A lot of them just don't work when minimized, since it essentially acts as a close.

Tablet users will have to drop out of Metro sooner rather than later. Had Metro been forced and the desktop disappeared then people wouldn't be complaining, but that's not the case. If that tablet user who bought a Windows tablet wants to use anything legacy then they might as well have bought a cheaper laptop better suited to the task.

Microsoft doesn't understand that tablets aren't productivity devices, touch is still years away from reaching M+KB ease of use and that people won't pay upwards of $900 for an underpowered laptop. This won't end well.

 

[hhhd1]

There are 2 worlds,

Tablets: small screen, low processing power, high battery, low functionality, suitable as a nice gadget to do simple stuff.

Computers: larger screen, high processor power, needs dedicated cooling fan, high functionality, used in enterprise and to get work done.

Windows 8 is trying to combine those 2 worlds in a cumbersome way, trying to please users with different interests with the same product.

For a product of the size of Windows, MS should have known better that it must maintain backward compatibility with work environments.

Windows 8 is not re-inventing computing or re-inventing tablets, it is only re-inventing convertible laptops, for a convertible laptop this could be great, but they are not suitable for real productive work or as a gadget.

In the next 3 years, Linux and the open source software community will have a huge opportunity like they have never had before, I hope they do something.

 

[Pretty Cool]

No boot to desktop for you:
http://www.techspot.com/news/49669-...om-hiding-metro-start-screen-after-logon.html

Actually, not that big of a deal.

The 3rd-party Start Menu's typically boot into Metro then autoclicks for you the desktop tile. Hence, you still get to desktop without interacting with Metro. No, this autoclick behavior will not be blocked because Microsoft cannot take away the desktop mode tile.

 

[jhansman]

Actually, not that big of a deal.

The 3rd-party Start Menu's typically boot into Metro then autoclicks for you the desktop tile. Hence, you still get to desktop without interacting with Metro. No, this autoclick behavior will not be blocked because Microsoft cannot take away the desktop mode tile.

This. And, that article reeks of FUD : "It's unclear from this report exactly how Microsoft may be blocking this method, but it is conceivable that Microsoft has programmatically disabled the "Show Desktop" shell command from the typical executing from the Startup folder, task scheduler and registry loading points."

Really? "Unclear"? "Conceivable"? Great reporting there.