Microsoft is committing suicide with Windows 8

[Zaap]

Sure they are, and doing them all by jabbing the display with your finger is the future.

What's funny to me is some people actually think that waving your hands all over a desktop monitor is the wave of the future, vs. a more logical interface like a mouse.

I'd invite those that think so, to right now lift their arms up and poke around all over their desktop monitor. Great. Now do that for 8 hours straight. That's YOUR future maybe, not mine.

Moving your wrist a few millimeters to travel all over the screen is infinitely more efficient. And until human hands become invisible, you're not obstructing your own view. For more precision between hand and screen, there's the pen-tablet like the Cintiq.

But then again, Wacom actually understands human interface design. Their latest tablets have a feature where just the tiniest flick of your thumb calls up a floating on-screen menu that gives you access to more information in a tiny space than Metro does spewing kludge across multiple monitors. Move your thumb and it fades out, out of your way. The stuff I want to use in the future will be designed by people that actually pay attention to what people want, and actually know what the hell they are doing to achieve it.

So sure, there's a place for touch interfaces on desktops. But let's face it, it'll be blown out of the water by the REAL future interface- direct retina-tracking control!

 

[jhansman]

Obviously, there is a choice. You can either use the Metro mode or Desktop mode in 8.

Furthermore, there will be utilities that will add the Start Menu in desktop mode. There will be also be ways to automatically select the desktop mode. If you install Classic Shell for instance, it will automatically boot to desktop mode and give you a hybird XP-7 Start Menu.

If you are only desktop apps, staying in desktop mode might be better if do not like change. Use the Metro mode when you want to use Metro apps.

Amen, brother.

Why is everyone in a panty-twist over a new interface that puts you one click away from the old? I don't care much for the Metro interface for my PC, but I can see where it could work for a tablet. What does bug me is that Windows Live is history. Apparently (and correct me if I'm wrong) but Win8 has no native email app; the Preview I downloaded would only set up email for Outlook, Gmail, or Hotmail, the last two of which are web based. Do they really think your average home user needs Outlook? Live Mail has been perfect for my home email needs for some time now. Why ditch it?

 

[tommo123]

Metro was designed to be used with touch screens.

If one puts the Metro issue aside, stop the "Cry baby" behavior and really evaluate Win 8 desktop capacity, One might find out that Win 8 Desktop per-se is a better upgrade from Win 7, than Win 7 was from Vista.

So, the choices are two.

1. Shoot yourself in the foot, and save $40.

2. Upgrade for $40 and "stomach" the ""Terrible Horrible"" need to click twice in order to get to the desktop.

please justify the comment above. the one where win 8 will be the "better upgrade". i couldn't stand win8 when i tried it. if all i want to do is go to the start menu for a second and click something, with win8 my whole screen is filled with metro crap and then i go back to the desktop. it's not better, it's intrusive, ugly and unnecessary.

under the hood improvements may make it a worthy upgrade but the UI is so annoying to me that i'll be sticking with win7 and in the meantime am playing with linux mint

the truth (at least what i see as the truth) here is microsoft are willing to piss off a lot of users and hope they don't go buy macs or whatever to force more metro apps to be made and get more marketshare for the tablets. what they should have done is look at the asus transformer and improve on it. a tablet = a tablet OS (or at least UI - metro). dock it on a keyboard and switch to classic windows UI. that tablet is now a fully functional PC.

but they didn't. what's next? a voice operated OS? keyboards not allowed and you have to dictate every action you want to take? it's only a step or 2 beyond the stupidity of a touch based OS on a keyboard and mouse driven PC ffs! :thumbsdown:

 

[Maximilian]

1) There must be some feature in Windows 8 you must want to use, otherwise you would just stick to Windows 7 and there would be no point in complaining.
2) I'm sure there will be plenty of tools/utilities for you to automatically skip to the desktop in Windows 8.
3) Is it really that hard to press WinKey+D when your computer boots up to skip to the desktop?

Part of me just shakes my head sometimes. Don't like it, don't use it!

No worries, wont be paying for a downgrade, ill stick with 7

 

[unokitty]

On my desktops, I run Mint Linux.

My main portable has Windows 7. Though, I'm often running Back Track in a VM. My backup has XP installed.

I skipped Vista. Likely, I'll skip Windows 8.

Nothing against Microsoft. Though, I can't help but notice that they lost money last quarter.

They are welcome to their vision of the future.

But given their track record, I wouldn't be buying any Microsoft stock anytime soon.

Uno

 

[Scooby Doo]

I'd love to see an util that completely blocks metro, not one click away from the original, zero clicks away from original.

 

[Pretty Cool]

One click to desktop is a tile within Metro mode. So having something automatically selecting that tile should be a safe option. Trying to do more than that is probably more risky and may have unintented issues. The time it takes to switch from Metro to Desktop mode is only a second or so. Personally, a second does not bother me.

As an alternative to Classic Shell, there is also a program called Start8 which also automatically sends you to desktop mode and adds a Start Menu. This program is made by Stardock. I plan on trying this soon.

For email, my understanding that the only new email client is the one in Metro. When finalized, it will have IMAP, but no POP3 support. There will be no new desktop mode email client, but version in Live Essentials 2011 is supposed to work in 8.

 

[StinkyPinky]

On my desktops, I run Mint Linux.

My main portable has Windows 7. Though, I'm often running Back Track in a VM. My backup has XP installed.

I skipped Vista. Likely, I'll skip Windows 8.

Nothing against Microsoft. Though, I can't help but notice that they lost money last quarter.

They are welcome to their vision of the future.

But given their track record, I wouldn't be buying any Microsoft stock anytime soon.

Uno

They lost money because of a company they bought in 2007. They have just decided to write down the value of this company.

 

[ninaholic37]

So sure, there's a place for touch interfaces on desktops. But let's face it, it'll be blown out of the water by the REAL future interface- direct retina-tracking control!

Hrmm... I guess I would have to blink to click on something? And focus on a window (like I'm grabbing it with my eyeballs) to move it around? And open my eyelids more to zoom in? Half the time my retinas are all over the place or half asleep, I'd rather have a page that is static (until I tell it to 'activate' eye gestures somehow). Not sure I need the extra strain on my eyes/head though, or want to go through the extra 'retina interface learning curve' when I already know how to use a trackpad/mouse.

I think an OS that could read minds would be the future, bypassing those obstacle entirely (then you could get rid of the physical/virtual keyboard too).

 

[StinkyPinky]

God I would hate for an OS to read minds. Imagine the horrible things that can happen. Your hot boss leans over you to check on your work and next minute "sex with boss" pops up in a google search.

 

[Zaap]

^She'd say, "Relax. You're using a mind-controlled computer. You don't think I've got the thought-control override and don't already know exactly what you've been thinking about on it all this time?" Then a wink. Her office. 5 minutes.

 

[ViRGE]

Pete, don't you think you're exaggerating just a bit? I'm not a fan of Metro either, but Win8 is shaping up to be a solid operating system. It's going to sell well like Windows always does, and if MS has any luck they'll get a strong foothold in the tablet market too. It'll probably end up being one of the versions of Windows that is reflected upon in disdain, but that's a far cry from suicide.

^ That's exactly what people are saying: they don't like it, so they're not going to use it. Too complicated?

The problem is that you can't not use Metro. You're only in the desktop until the first time you want to press that Win key or do something else that would previously invoke the Start Menu.

 

[Jaskalas]

So let me get this straight. You didn't like how windows 8 user interface feels, it left a bad impression for you, so you decided that it's a bad product, somehow?
Any real flaws?
If you don't like Metro - don't use it. I don't.

There is no separation of Win8 and Metro.

It would be so simple for Microsoft to keep it separated, but until they do so many of us WILL be taking your advice and not touching Windows 8. That means not buying it, means Microsoft is wasting the potential of desktop users who would otherwise upgrade. Means lost stock prices, angry investors, and a perfectly legitimate question of just WTF are they doing?

Desktop users want a PURE desktop. So simple, but so hard for them to understand?

 

[hhhd1]

... It's going to sell well like Windows always does, ...

That is the thing, windows didn't always have the same level of success.

Windows ME and Vista got more criticism than praise, .. even though vista sp2 is better than windows 7 (imo).

Windows 8 is going in the same direction as vista and me.

Not maintaining backward compatibility with some older hardware was the major issue in vista (imo).

Not maintaining backward compatibility with some older users is the major issue in '8'

Some people/companies payed money to learn windows, those won't just google their way into learning to deal with a new interface.

 

[jhansman]

Don't think MS isn't monitoring user groups and boards like AT. They are well aware of how freaked your average user gets when anything is changed, and they want to sell software. The Metro interface is clearly aimed at the tablet market, and Ballmer & Co. will figure out a way to make it work for the PC. It may not as elegant as some of us would like, but hell, I've been using Windows since 2.0 and it has come a long way in that time.

 

[Pretty Cool]

Windows 7 was released almost 3 years ago. Only recently have companies started upgrading to that. For many of them, there is no way they were going to upgrade to 8 so soon no matter what Windows 8 looks like.

For individuals, it is not that hard if you hate Metro that much to install Classic Shell or Start8. Classic Shell gives you a XP-like Start Menu. Start8 gives you a Metro-looking Start Menu. Unlike the Windows Metro Applications screen, Start8's Menu is smaller than full screen.

I have also a script called Fxxk Metro that disables Metro after you load it in desktop mode. This is a hassle to always to manually launch this everytime you boot your computer. Some have reported odd behavior with this script both when manually launching it and trying to autoload it. My guess is that program will not even work with RTM.

Personally, I think the complaints over Metro is way overblown. You can just go to desktop mode, get somebody's Start Menu, and stay there if you want. Metro mode itself works fine for casual users using a mouse. Not sure why people keep saying it is only for touch screns.

 

[Zaap]

The problem is that you can't not use Metro. You're only in the desktop until the first time you want to press that Win key or do something else that would previously invoke the Start Menu.

Eh? Sure you can not use Metro. You don't use Windows 8. That's what I and others are saying.

And people can keep elaborating on all the hoops that can be jumped through just to get to a half-ass version of what WE ALREADY HAVE, but they're still missing the point, which is- there is no point in that.

It's on Microsoft to come up with some actual innovative ideas and put them in new operating systems, not on me to un-halfass their product for them. Forced-fullscreen crap for no real purpose isn't innovation, nor an OS 'feature' many were clamoring for.

Apple doesn't have any problem making each new 'big cat' version fairly compelling for me to spend $30 or so on, and adding useful things I actually want. And each time they have little problem displaying that they still understanding proper UI design.

MS isn't some rinky-dink start up. They could spend real money on people that actually understand proper UI design as well, and really put some improvements in a new OS that both home and business users would really flock to. (Like they did actually do with Windows 7 after the blunders of Vista). It's not on me to just float them and say "Whatever you guys come out with, crap or good, I'll buy!" That's not being a good consumer, it's frankly being a consumer retard.

 

[Pretty Cool]

It is not as though anybody ever uses the stock OS and never installs anything. Does anybody install a different browser, a file compressor, or file manager? Even in XP and 7 which people seem to love, people installed 3rd party utilites. For Windows 7, I installed Classic Shell, IZArc, and Free Commander, and multiple browsers. Could I use Windows instead? Sure, but if there are free options & I like them better why not use them? So now the Start Menu is just another personalization feature that most people have never thought of before.

It is not like installing Classic Shell is some elaborate process like doing anything non-standard in Android. It is wizard-based like your normal Windows install.

There are some new things in Windows 8 like faster install, faster boot, better performance (we'll see), and file history. There are probably more things. However, nobody ever talks about them because they are needlessly talking about the UI. Honestly, I would not be surprised if there are multiple issues/bugs being missed because of the over emphasis on the Metro desktop.

 

[StinkyPinky]

I don't get the fuss about Metro. I just go into the Desktop and never touch metro again until the next time the PC boots up. Everything you need can be accessed from the desktop. In fact, the desktop in Windows 8 is more efficient than Windows 7 with better shortcuts and quicker access to admin features.

I think people just install Windows 8, see the metro, and then rage quit before they even bother to learn how to use the OS.

I was disappointed they are going to ditch the aero theme, but hey, I'm sure people are working on an aero theme as we speak.

 

[jhansman]

I don't get the fuss about Metro. I just go into the Desktop and never touch metro again until the next time the PC boots up. Everything you need can be accessed from the desktop. In fact, the desktop in Windows 8 is more efficient than Windows 7 with better shortcuts and quicker access to admin features.

I think people just install Windows 8, see the metro, and then rage quit before they even bother to learn how to use the OS.

I was disappointed they are going to ditch the aero theme, but hey, I'm sure people are working on an aero theme as we speak.

Again, amen brother. All this bellyaching is just knee-jerk reaction. Beneath the goofy Metro interface is a faster and smarter Win7, albeit missing some things we've grown used to (or rarely, if ever, used). Remember to breathe, everyone.

 

[piasabird]

Tablets are mere toys as far as I am concerned. Business users need access to things like a real keyboard, printers, scanners, etc. There are times when a mobile computing device might make sense, but not when you are working with databases and real work requiring a real keyboard and speed of access. What I see on the horizon is tablets and phones merging. I tried using an Asus tablet for a while and thought it was just slowing me down. Just trying to type to post something on a forum was a major pain.

I have just about decided that the metro interface just makes a desktop computer harder to use, not easier. Just moving a screen sideways to see the other apps slows a person down. Then it was as if Microsoft went out of their way to hide things like the calculator, and wordpad. Not to mention the shutdown/logoff procedures. I think it is just not ready for release and it is being rushed to market. I actually prefer to use a desktop. That is why they call it a desktop computer. If Microsoft does not sale a lot of tablets they will be in real trouble. Tablets are so popular that they really need a Tablet division and a desktop div. Plus Android OS is biting into their market share. This is a shame because it seems like there is something more under the hood in Win 8 that makes it snappier and more responsive. I see no real reason to absolutely have no access to a tree structure like the start menu had. It is a good basic design that worked.

I noticed on the start menu you can make windows explorer on there so you can use a tree-like interface. You can also go to the Metro side and find the apps or programs and pin them to the desktop bar. Sometimes I think that the entire OS and the programs should be run from an internet browser. All of the internet is accessible and usable from a favorites menu, so could just make that the entire operating system. At work we are going to a portal interface where everything for our database systems are accessible from a browser-like interface or portal. I imagine something like this would drive the EU sue happy!

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Again, amen brother. All this bellyaching is just knee-jerk reaction. Beneath the goofy Metro interface is a faster and smarter Win7, albeit missing some things we've grown used to (or rarely, if ever, used). Remember to breathe, everyone.

Yeah guys, what's there to be upset about?

 

[dagamer34]

I just fear everyone on AnandTech thinks that Windows 8 should have been Windows 7++ and basically ignore the iPad. I call that the "RIM" strategy that is doomed to failure in 5-10 years.

Here's a small factoid for you. There are 1.3 billion PCs in the world, with maybe 1/2 for business use (so 600 million for home use). There are 7 billion people. That means 1 out of 10 people in the world has access to a computer. Can you imagine if the iPad at $299 topples Windows as a general computing platform? Can you imagine what it would be like if there were 2 billion iPads out there?

For those who say "Microsoft should have just created a separate tablet OS!", look at what happened to Windows Phone. Great OS, no marketshare. IF you don't actively shove the Metro interface in front of people, no one will use it, and developers won't write apps for it. Microsoft is a business. It serves its shareholders, and hopefully makes a product that consumers like. But get off your high horse about how shitty Windows 8 is. If you really didn't care, you'd ignore it (much like how there aren't several RIM deathwatch threads in Mobile Devices subforum).

 

[MrMuppet]

Oh my, the Barbarian is just too much, trolled me harder than Microsoft! :thumbsup:

...if Windows 8 will be forced upon us it means Microsoft will also lose the PC operating system leadership they currently have, hopefully Microsoft will realize the metro phone interface will not work on PC computers before it's too late.

No, you got it wrong. With some luck Microsoft won't realize in time and will lose its utter and complete PC operating system dominance so we can finally have some true competition. What you envision would be a great opportunity for everyone else!

 

[MrMuppet]

Moving your wrist a few millimeters to travel all over the screen is infinitely more efficient...

No, I'd rather not, thank you. Just moving my thumb is exercise aplenty.

Still love and use my old* trusted TrackMan Wheel all day, every day (pretty much) and I use my new fancy M570 in front of my TV right now. (*As in corded, my very oldest has much lower DPI/inferior tracking.) No space issues or mouse elbow for me.

I do move my wrist for the occasional high-speed precision tasks though (gaming).