Microsoft officially announces Windows 11

[DigDog]

well, i've just had a complete crash.

I had a 3rd SSD with 50gb space that was too small, too old. And i decided to get me a swaggy new SSD, good stuff.
I turned off the PC, took out the old one - just a data disk, they are supposedly hotswappable - and put the new one in, BAM, dead. Not even a repair would do it.
And this considering i was planning to do a new build next month ..

Anyway, i've now been four hours changing settings.

A decent start menu.
A task manager that doesnt suck.
Disabling UAC.
Making W10 understand that *I AM* the administrator.
Setting my display to 144hz.
Re-installing the default Windows Image Viewer because hey, it's 2021, we don't need that, let's open every image in Paint.
Changing layout to the keyboard.
Disabling the stupid windows animations when you minimize a window.
Removing garbage from my taskbar.

MICROSOFT STOP IT.

Disable updates. Yes, i disable my updates. Yes even for things like Meltdown. No i do not expect nuclear war to happen. Yes i don't care. (freeware: Windows Update Blocker)
Delete obsolete features like Fax.
Disabling the "smart screen" that stops evil dangerous programs like qBittorrent from being installed.
Text to speech, voice recognition, etc
removing useless context menu options



I cannot even imagine what massive pain would be to deal with W11 and this ever-increasing nazi-dom where Microsoft forces me to be a basic user where what i want is the polar opposite - i want a OS that encourages me to be a power user. That finds settings for me instead of hiding them. That EXPLAINS settings instead of trying to be cutesy and saying "let us make your fonts prettier".

Of course M$ wants everyone who they can, to move to W11. The same reason they literally forced the W10 update on millions of systems, despite W7 being brilliant.

I am not denying the improvements made with W10.
What i am concerned with is that with each change in OS, we get less and less control. We are being moved to a uniformed-consumer business model which is exactly the opposite of what computers are meant to do in the first place.

I will resist W11 as much as i can. I'm sorry but i just do not trust Microsoft to do anything good with this OS. I didnt get Vista, i didn't get 8, and i didn't get 10 for years, until there were enough third party tools to remove the scandalous bloatware from 10.


Edge is cool tho.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Just in:

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/w...t-tpm-requirement-for-special-purpose-systems

Custom order and Customer system with custom image? I think we can safely count most entusiast systems under that. The question is will MS?

 

[VivienM]

Just in:

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/w...t-tpm-requirement-for-special-purpose-systems

Custom order and Customer system with custom image? I think we can safely count most entusiast systems under that. The question is will MS?

We're long past the TPM requirement, the real issue is the apparent dropping of processors older than the 8th-gen Intels or 2nd gen Ryzens...

I am actually now starting to wonder if this was an intentional strategy. First, get people worked up about the TPMs, and everybody says "oh don't worry almost anybody without a dinosaur computer can just enable it in the BIOS." Then... that starts spreading, and then they change the processor requirements, generating mega confusion. There are plenty of people out there saying 'who cares, adding $30 TPM is not a big deal' not realizing that since Thursday or Friday, the ground changed and adding that TPM to that board gets you nowhere.

 

[Panino Manino]

All that talk and fear mongering about Russia, China, Iran...
I can partly understand murricans not being outraged, after all, it's their government. But ignoring this, I understood this right? This new Windows is an effort to reinforce and enforce the so called "botnet" with built-in CPU backdoors developed with Microsoft's help following the murrican deep state guidelines?

I'll stay far away of this thing and the chinese made CPU's can come soon enough.

 

[UsandThem]

This thread now provides 2000% of the recommended daily value of Sn.

 

[kn51]

Sadly for me, this is the first I've heard of MBR2GPT. It wasn't that bad for me, as I have a backup of that drive. Thanks for the info though!

Yeah, took a little digging around to find out about it. Before running it I made an image and recovery disc because if this screws up it would be bad. But it worked without a hitch.

I blame the whole situation on the loaded defaults of the BIOS set CSM to enabled. If my boot drive was > 2TB would have noticed right away. Guess I should look closer next time. Doh!

 

[mxnerd]

So, on a curiosity basis, I checked my Dell i5-4570 2015 machine (the CPU was released in 2013) which came with Windows 8.1 and then checked the supported CPU list provided by MS, and guess what? It's not in the list! The CPU is not in Windows 10 supported CPU list either. Very interesting. 🤔

Windows Processor Requirements Windows 8.1 Supported Intel Processors

This specification details the Intel processors that can be used with Windows 8.1 Customer Systems that include Windows Products (including Custom Images).

docs.microsoft.com

and here is the Windows supported CPU complete list from Windows 7

Windows Processor Requirements

This specification details the processors that can be used by OEMs to manufacture Customer Systems that include Windows Products (including Custom Images).

docs.microsoft.com

 

[VivienM]

So, on a curiosity basis, I checked my Dell i5-4570 2015 machine (the CPU was released in 2013) which came with Windows 8.1 and then checked the supported CPU list provided by MS, and guess what? It's not in the list! The CPU is not in Windows 10 supported CPU list either. Very interesting. 🤔

Windows Processor Requirements Windows 8.1 Supported Intel Processors

This specification details the Intel processors that can be used with Windows 8.1 Customer Systems that include Windows Products (including Custom Images).

docs.microsoft.com

and here is the Windows supported CPU complete list from Windows 7

Windows Processor Requirements

This specification details the processors that can be used by OEMs to manufacture Customer Systems that include Windows Products (including Custom Images).

docs.microsoft.com

It would be easy to say "these lists are BS", but... at least for 11, Microsoft does have that PC Health Check tool that tells anybody without a processor on the list that their computer can't run 11.

(Also ominous, that health check app has a weird way of measuring the PC's age. I'm not sure what they're using - OS install date? BIOS version date? But it's revealing that they want you to know how 'old' your PC is right as they tell you it is unsupported for 11)

 

[mxnerd]

I agree the support list and the Health Check tool is just BS.

Except the coming Android support and the system feels a bit snappier, Win11 actually does not provide anything new, however.

Win10 ends support in 2025, it's a long way to go.

 

[taisingera]

I just had a look at cpu specs at Intel ARK, and compared the i7 7700K to i7 8700K. The only differences I could find are that 7700K has HD630 graphics vs UHD630 (but they look the same to me, right down to HDCP2.2 and H.265 10 bit support); 7700K lacks SIPP (Intel Stable Image Platform Program), but so does my supported i3 10100; and 7700K lacks TXT (trusted execution technology), but so does my i3 10100. As for the chipsets, Z270 vs Z370, all I could find is the Z370 supports USB 10Gb/s and Type-C.

This cut off of 8th gen and newer looks like some random point they picked so that people could buy new PCs if they are running more than 4 year old machines. Kaby Lake launched Jan 2017, and Coffee Lake launched Oct 2017. If Win11 comes out around October, that is exactly the four year mark.

 

[VirtualLarry]

This cut off of 8th gen and newer looks like some random point they picked so that people could buy new PCs if they are running more than 4 year old machines. Kaby Lake launched Jan 2017, and Coffee Lake launched Oct 2017. If Win11 comes out around October, that is exactly the four year mark.

Exactly.

This is an MS Hype! Hype! Hype! OhBtwBuyANewPC Hype! Hype! Hype! move.

Pretty sleazy, if you ask me.

Could some of the minimum requirements have to do with Protected Audio/Video path for content-protection? Maybe THAT's where the minimum requirement lies. Somewhere where CPU exploits
won't theoretically allow that to be broken into. Or the point in the development timeline for AMD and Intel's CPUs where they added the "secret sauce", which is still sitting in some sort of undocumented "Appendix H".

 

[VirtualLarry]

(around 3:00)

According to the Tech Deals guy, "Windows 11", is really just a marketing push for Win 10 21H2 for the release of AlderLake.

 

[mxnerd]

Insider Preview is coming out this week, so we will see.

 

[mikeymikec]

According to the Tech Deals guy, "Windows 11", is really just a marketing push for Win 10 21H2 for the release of AlderLake.

Am I the only one here that got as far as the word 'awesome' (three seconds in), cringed and closed the tab?

 

[coercitiv]

According to the Tech Deals guy, "Windows 11", is really just a marketing push

We all knew Win 11 is just a marketing push. Problem is they managed to launch TPM 2.0 instead of Win 11, that's the level to which they confused consumers.

 

[Red Squirrel]

My very first thought when the Windows 11 leaks/rumors began picking up over the last 2 weeks or so, was "I bet Microsoft will go a step further in making people use a Microsoft account over a local account".

And then what do I see listed in the system requirements from the link in the OP?

View attachment 46210

I mean I know they practically began tricking people with later versions of Windows 10 when the PC was connected to the internet during installation, but I'm just not a fan of having to use a Microsoft account.

Ugh why am I not surprised. I absolutely hate this trend so much of tying everything to a stupid account. Just let me use the damn thing stand alone FFS. There's no technical reason to do this crap. Hopefully people find ways to hack that so it's not needed.

I run Linux as my main OS but I do have a windows machine for games so I'll eventually be forced to use windows 10 or 11 when games stop working in 7.

Not sure what TPM is but I hate when they put requirements like that just for sake of it, and it makes older machines incompatible. I doubt any of my computers have that given I don't even know what it is. Can't afford to build new machines every couple years like I used to so I like to make them last. Upon quick google I guess it's some kind of dongle? I presume it still requires a compatible motherboard either way.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Ugh why am I not surprised. I absolutely hate this trend so much of tying everything to a stupid account. Just let me use the damn thing stand alone FFS. There's no technical reason to do this crap. Hopefully people find ways to hack that so it's not needed.

Of course there is a technical reason. Billing. How else to track what you buy in their store?

MS would also love a monthly subscription to Windows. Just like Office, Onedrive etc. They're just not in a position to pull that off. Yet.

I really hate this account managing everywhere. MS account, Google account, AppleID and so on and on. Pretty soon you can't even use a toaster or coffee pot without an Account®™...

 

[Red Squirrel]

Of course there is a technical reason. Billing. How else to track what you buy in their store?

MS would also love a monthly subscription to Windows. Just like Office, Onedrive etc. They're just not in a position to pull that off. Yet.

I really hate this account managing everywhere. MS account, Google account, AppleID and so on and on. Pretty soon you can't even use a toaster or coffee pot without an Account®™...

That's more of a greed reason. There's no reason why an OS (or any device really) can't function as a stand alone thing. Same with lot of other things like phones, etc which all require an account to use. it's all about spying on us and other crap like that. What I do for that stuff though is I just make a random email with a bunch of random characters and a random character username. Basically I make sure that it's not tied to me. When I get a new device (phone etc) I make a new account. Still annoying though.

 

[Cronox]

This cut off of 8th gen and newer looks like some random point they picked so that people could buy new PCs if they are running more than 4 year old machines. Kaby Lake launched Jan 2017, and Coffee Lake launched Oct 2017. If Win11 comes out around October, that is exactly the four year mark.

For AMD cut off of all Ryzen 1xxxX (last release date 27 july 2017), all Threadripper 1xxxX (last release date August 31, 2017), all Ryzen APU 2xxxG (last release date 10 May 2018 !!)
Here the the absurdity of the thing is even clearer since the "real" CPU change was the release of the Ryzen. In the list the Zen+ that was only an optimization of the 14 nm process used for Zen, with only minor design rule changes...

They want to joke us! We still keep making ourselves heard because it is really an absurd situation

 

[crashtech]

Windows 10 is supported until 2025, and at that time we can expect the PC hardware situation to look very different. Zen was barely released 4 years ago, and look how much things have changed since. I'm having a hard time getting worked up about at the moment about older platforms not being compatible. I'm still using an Ivy Bridge laptop, and my spouse's desktop is Haswell, but I doubt that will be the case in 2025, when many systems that are compatible with Win 11 will be older and available at low prices.

 

[deustroop]

The ASUS notebook I have runs on a i5 8250U cpu, a processor within the cpu specifications for the new OS. UEFI allows for Secure Boot but makes no mention of the TMP. So I expected the machine would not pass muster, but according to PCCheckup , it does ! I recall several others have been similarily surprised when an apparent lack of a header or bios mention nevertheless results in a pass.so I looked closely at this machine. Down in the weeds it says:

Asus emphasizes the mobility of the slim and light VivoBook S15 and builds in a current Trusted Platform Module (TPM 2.0) as well as a fingerprint sensor.

 

[VivienM]

Microsoft is backing off somewhat, saying that i) the insider builds going out now won't enforce the TPM 2.0 and minimum CPU requirements, and ii) they will look at the telemetry data to look at expanding the minimum requirements.

So I guess this means everybody needs to enroll their grandmother's Haswell desktops in the insider program so that they get tons of data about how reliable those systems are?

 

[Cronox]

Zen was barely released 4 years ago, and look how much things have changed since.

not much, in AMD "world" Zen was the change. Then there were the refinements of the platform. The next major change will be when we have the new socket and DDR5.

I'm still using an Ivy Bridge laptop, and my spouse's desktop is Haswell, but I doubt that will be the case in 2025, when many systems that are compatible with Win 11 will be older and available at low prices.

Ivy Bridge and Haswell are of 2013 and 2014...the Ryzen 2400G/2200G and the others 2xxxG are of 2018 four or five years more recent, I think you can agree that is a completely different situation. (I have also IvyBridge and Haswell, even SandyBridge,etc.)

 

[Cronox]

Microsoft is backing off somewhat, saying that i) the insider builds going out now won't enforce the TPM 2.0 and minimum CPU requirements, and ii) they will look at the telemetry data to look at expanding the minimum requirements.

So I guess this means everybody needs to enroll their grandmother's Haswell desktops in the insider program so that they get tons of data about how reliable those systems are?

what a OS presentation disaster. Now you have to hope that insiders use computers with specifications similar to yours, to maybe hope that your system turns out to be compatible. But what decision methodology is it? Always on AMD side...good luck to the owners of Threadripper 1950X and motherboard TR4... more and more absurd...

I add, they are already full of telemetry data, they have done nothing but collect them all these years. Haven't they received enough from windows 10? They already know that for example the TPM has not been activated and used by almost anyone...look at the mess that's going on when they announced the "thing"

 

[VivienM]

what a OS presentation disaster. Now you have to hope that insiders use computers with specifications similar to yours, to maybe hope that your system turns out to be compatible. But what decision methodology is it? Always on AMD side...good luck to the owners of Threadripper 1950X and motherboard TR4... more and more absurd...

I want to hope that what they'll actually end up doing is soft abandoning the CPU and maybe even TPM requirements. Maybe only offer the upgrade to 11 to 7th gen and newer processor users, but not actively block it if the users try to install it themselves.

The reality is that, at least at the time of the current insider build, nothing actually requires the controversial requirements. I just upgraded a VM that uses BIOS/MBR, no secure boot, no TPM, on a Haswell proxmox host to Win11 insider and it works just like 10. So all the code to support these older systems, even the BIOS boot loader, is still perfectly there.

All their talk about security, reliability, etc ignores the fact that their current code can deliver at least as much security, reliability, etc on 11 than on 10 on the same hardware. The fact that 11 might be able to get you more security on newer hardware seems, frankly, to me to be besides the point.