Microsoft Surface

[finbarqs]

any shortfalls this thing has, apple and google will capitalize on humiliating microsoft!

Do I smell a Touchpad here?

 

[mikegg]

any shortfalls this thing has, apple and google will capitalize on humiliating microsoft!

Do I smell a Touchpad here?

Difference is - HP is a hardware company first whereas MS is a software company like Google.

I think MS has a far better chance of succeeding.

 

[Red Storm]

I don't think the "x86 version will get terrible battery life" argument will exist forever. Remember that this OS has to be built for the trends of at least the next 2-3 years before any major changes to the kernel. It can't be based on what is happening now, but what will happen in the future. Go back 5 or 6 years ago and running a laptop on a Pentium 4 Mobile chip basically meant you were never going to have kids if you used it on your lap. It's not until Intel got serious about mobile that they created the Pentium M, then the Core Duo and Core 2 Duo.

There's no doubt Intel is working on the next generation of CPUs that will work in the tablets just as well as ARM versions.

It may not exist forever but it sure does exist here and now. ARM CPUs use less power than x86 ones, and that's why they have much better battery life.

 

[BladeVenom]

any shortfalls this thing has, apple and google will capitalize on humiliating microsoft!

Do I smell a Touchpad here?

Tim Cook is already laughing at Windows 8, and their strategy. “You can converge a toaster and a refrigerator, but those aren’t going to be pleasing to the user.” -- http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/1112521521/tim-cook-pulls-no-punches-with-windows-8/

 

[Deeko]

Tim Cook is already laughing at Windows 8, and their strategy. “You can converge a toaster and a refrigerator, but those aren’t going to be pleasing to the user.” -- http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/1112521521/tim-cook-pulls-no-punches-with-windows-8/

...and yet with both Lion and Mountain Lion, they're slowly but surely converging MacOS and iOS. The touchpad gestures in Lion are no more intuitive than the UI in Windows 8.

 

[Jeff007245]

Im using windows 8 and its actually quite productive once you get used to the new features. I like it... Except i'm finding myself in the original "desktop" mode quite often. However, the added Metro UI on windows 8 will be amazing on a tablet using it for the basic tasks you do that doesn't require a desktop... Email, Finalizing of documents, presentation during stand-up meetings, presentation to potential clients, presentation to stakeholders... its an amazingly useful device in my field as a project manager. My main concern is battery life, software support, capability, and increase in productivity...

 

[Geekbabe]

I'm eager to get my hands on the Surface Pro, I'm going to a big convention in NYC next month, MS will be there & I'm hoping they'll have a unit with them.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

It may not exist forever but it sure does exist here and now. ARM CPUs use less power than x86 ones, and that's why they have much better battery life.

The are also much less powerful, after all Medfield could compete with or even beat Tegra 3 and Krait in most benchmarks and it's only a single core Atom which was slow for an x86 part even back in 2008 when the were first released. An Ivy Bridge Core i5 ULV is on a completely different level than any ARM SoC when it comes to both cpu and gpu performance. Not to mention that the SSD in the Surface Pro will put the flash storage in an ARM tablet to shame.

Im using windows 8 and its actually quite productive once you get used to the new features. I like it... Except i'm finding myself in the original "desktop" mode quite often. However, the added Metro UI on windows 8 will be amazing on a tablet using it for the basic tasks you do that doesn't require a desktop... Email, Finalizing of documents, presentation during stand-up meetings, presentation to potential clients, presentation to stakeholders... its an amazingly useful device in my field as a project manager. My main concern is battery life, software support, capability, and increase in productivity...

I agree, for all of its flaws on a desktop Windows 8 is practically amazing on a tablet. The split UI works very well too, you have Metro for all of the normal tablet stuff like email, web browsing, and using apps, but you have the desktop to fall back to if you need to fire up Photoshop or AutoCAD.

 

[tornadog]

Microsoft played it wrong here. They announced the tablet and created lot of excitement, but then didnt give out the vital info that people were looking for, price, release date. Now Google and soon Apple will come in and release their tablets, and many of these people will rebound and get one of the 2.

I know personally, I want to get a windows 8 phone and tablet but each new device released is making it that much more difficult to keep waiting.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I think there announcement worked pretty well, I know several people who are planning on ordering a Surface Pro the moment it is released.

 

[pm]

I saw this yesterday:
Report: Low yields plaguing Microsoft Surface magnesium chassis production - ZDNet

If true, this would affect pricing and/or release dates.

 

[jalaram]

Microsoft Surface for Windows RT tablet coming October 26th for $199?

That would be an amazing price, but I don't believe for a second.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

If it really is $199 I wonder how much Surface Pro will be.

I might get one at that price.

 

[finbarqs]

yeah, now they're competing against the nexus 7, which is probably one of the best tablets you can purchase! Honestly, I'll pick one up for $149, and $299 for the x86 surface. But no more. if more, than R.I.P. microsoft. Nobody would want their "newcomer" at a premium price. iPad already ran away with that market.

 

[Red Storm]

yeah, now they're competing against the nexus 7, which is probably one of the best tablets you can purchase! Honestly, I'll pick one up for $149, and $299 for the x86 surface. But no more. if more, than R.I.P. microsoft. Nobody would want their "newcomer" at a premium price. iPad already ran away with that market.

$299 for the x86 version? That is never going to happen.

 

[dguy6789]

$199 for the RT would be awesome. Instant buy from me. I'm expecting the x86 version to be the same price as an ultrabook.

 

[Phokus]

I'd buy one if the detachable base were more like the ASUS Transformer keyboard/battery.

 

[darkewaffle]

Neat, for $200 I'd definitely think about giving it a try. I hope they pull it off.

 

[Dominato3r]

yeah, now they're competing against the nexus 7, which is probably one of the best tablets you can purchase! Honestly, I'll pick one up for $149, and $299 for the x86 surface. But no more. if more, than R.I.P. microsoft. Nobody would want their "newcomer" at a premium price. iPad already ran away with that market.

Holy shit this is terrible. Not sure if serious. What's the price of one i5 processor? Even at volume pricing, with a 1080p screen, pen digitizer and keyboard there's no way its $299.

You've been spewing this fud at literally every thread

 

[BladeVenom]

I'm having trouble believing the $199 price. They would be selling it for a significant loss.

The reports are that MS is charging OEMs around $80 for Windows RT. That means their OEM partners couldn't afford to make them. Not with a money losing device when they also have to pay MS $80.

 

[Ravynmagi]

Perhaps Microsoft has noticed that Windows Phone 7 has been out for almost a couple years and still has single digit market share. So with the tablets they figure they need to take a big loss on the hardware of the RT version in order to get this device into as many hands as possible to fast track Windows 8 application development?

This wouldn't be the first time Microsoft has taken a big loss on the hardware in hopes of making up with it from the software. Some reports say the Xbox 360 was quite expensive to manufacture at first.

Anyway, that is what I'm telling myself, trying to believe this $200 price it real... But even so, I still have a hard time believing the price will be that low.

 

[zerocool84]

I'm having trouble believing the $199 price. They would be selling it for a significant loss.

The reports are that MS is charging OEMs around $80 for Windows RT. That means their OEM partners couldn't afford to make them. Not with a money losing device when they also have to pay MS $80.

Amazon was supposedly taking a loss on the Fire just like video game companies take losses on the systems they release. $200 seems like it'd be a huge loss though.

 

[finbarqs]

actually, i'll pick up the surface pro... can't help thinking that the ARM isn't worth it, if it's functionality is basically a nexus 7...

 

[386DX]

Amazon was supposedly taking a loss on the Fire just like video game companies take losses on the systems they release. $200 seems like it'd be a huge loss though.

I don't think at $200 it would be a huge lost for Microsoft. Besides the larger screen the specs are similar to the Google Tablet which Google makes a profit on at $200-$250.

I could see Microsoft pricing the Surface RT @$199 then charging $49-$99 for the softkey/hardkey cover. They can take the lost on the Tablet itself but make the money on the cover accessories to break even. The profit will come from app store purchases (since its the only way to install apps on RT). This would let them quickly gain market share without burning through money.

For the Surface Pro I don't think we'll see any subsidized price on that one. It's going to cost Ultrabook territory. I don't believe it's going to be target for consumers (high cost) but at the Enterprise level. Remember Surface RT lacks domain joining ability... this way make sure that Surface Pro will be the only choice for Enterprise. Microsoft will also make pretty much zero on app store purchases on the Surface Pro mainly because x86 and desktop modes gives the Pro a way to install apps besides the app store and in most Enterprise enviroment systems are usually locked down to the end user. Microsoft will make money on the hardware for Surface Pro and from the volume licensing of its software.

The more you look at it the more it almost makes sense that the Surface RT will be priced low. Think about it if the Surface RT was priced in iPad territory instead of Nexus Tablet territory it leaves no price point for the ATOM based x86 tablets since ATOM + x86 costs more then ARM + RT, if Surface RT was priced at $500-$600 (like iPad) then ATOM tablets would have to be priced upwards of $750 which would be a tough sell. Makes more sense with the low price structure so you can have:

Surface RT: $199 + $49 to $99 cover, total approximately $250-$300, more app store purchase
ATOM Tablets: $500-$600, low cost enterprise choice because of x86 ability to join domain, less app store purchase
Surface Pro: $1000, ULV Ivy CPU, high end enterprise, laptop replacement, very little app store purchase

 

[BladeVenom]

A 32GB WiFi iPad 3, is estimated to cost Apple $332.85 to manufacture. http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/pages/New-iPad-32-GB-4G-Carries-364-35-Bill-of-Materials.aspx

The Surface may come with a lower resolution screen, but it also comes with a more expensive case, a keyboard, and lower production numbers.