Microsoft XP.... I think its time to start looking towards Linux...

[daytonl]

unionfredo wrote:

"I can't see a regular user trying to install through rpm and trying to fix dependencies."


Debian must be the biggest secret in the Linux Realm. Debian uses a different style of package management. Unlike most of the popular distros that use rpm. An example I can give you is... Say you want to install Netscape? type "apt-get" netscape. It downloads every program that is needed by netscape rechecks dependencies and sets everything up. Once you get Debian up and running the maintience is simple and updating any porgram is a snap. The way Debian handles dependencies and updating it puts every linux distro and Windows to shame, again, in terms of installing programs. I'm not going to say Linux is better than Windows or Windows is better than Linux. Thats something each will decide differently.

Lets say you want to update every program in your distribution. Again one command and all dependencies are checked. I've found Apt-get to be the most amazing program in Linux. You should look into Debians packaging system. I can keep my distro constantly up to date with either the stable version or the "unstable" version.

When I was using Redhat I had similar problems with dependcies. They got to be a mess. Debian keeps track of all that stuff and I can update everything on my computer in one simple command. I've found this method to take the hassle out of trying to keep up with everything that changes so quickly in linux. It got to be a chore for me when some libraries got out of date and some programs wanted version 1a of a library and another program wanted version 2b. You don't have to screw around with finding the right version of libraries for each new program you want to try.

 

[PCResources]

<< I'll be honest, somehow I just don't believe that. If so, I congratulate you on your success, and your persistence with the Linux support. >>



Well, i did say Office applications... We run Linux on AMD servers, some of them standard servers, some with our own designs based on Microns Samurai chipset.. We run Linux and StarOffice on all (AMD) desktop machines except for five of them, those five machines consist of two BEOS and three Mac's... We use the Slackware dist...

The idea was to use what we recommend, it was a good idea...

As we sell these systems, as we thouroughly test these systems, as we know how stable they are, why would we use anything else?

I have a little confession to make though, for games, W98SE seems to be what most of our employees are running at home... (for now, just wait until the HW support get's better and more games are created specifially for Linux, then we will truly see what computer graphics are all about..)

Actually, i know that Linux is an old system by now, but it has started to gain popularity very recently, i see more and more information about it, and i see more and more easy to use dist's like Corel and Mandrake, where you can have the Swap file size determined by the system, and if you do not like to partition then you do not have to, just choose &quot;use free space&quot;, if you need to partition, then Mandrakes partitioning program is way more user friendly than FDISK...

Patrick Palm

PC Resources

 

[PCResources]

<< I can't see a regular user trying to install through rpm and trying to fix dependencies >>



Nowdays, many applications (like staroffice) use a script file that will install the program as easily as any windows installation...

Patrick Palm

PC Resources

 

[Fattz]

To me, I will go with whatever works.. When I first started in computers, I was new to DOS and and Windows... Not like I can't adapt to something new in time.

To me, the Windows XP is where I leave Microsoft if they go thru with this registration deal and Authorization codes. I don't mind paying for software, but here comes a point when enough is enough. And having to report to them at every major upgrade of components or when (god forbid) Windows hiccups and dies.. Is not what I am going to support nor pay for. And of course a new Version of Windows every 18 months gets kinda spendy in terms of OS's.

I have both Versions of Windows ME and Win2k.. Win ME is getting scrapped next week for Win2k. I think Win2k will be good for a few years worth of Service before having to really consider switching. At that point it would stand to reason that enough of us Gamers and hardware enthusiasts would have contributed enough of a base to Linux that many more software and hardware companies would offer and fully support it.

Guess when XP is released we'll see what happens... Either we as consumers will lay down and take it... or we will find other things to fit what we need and want... Microsoft might be the biggest Guy on the block this week, but there is always next week.

 

[Spook]

You know, I was just thinking... How, practical, will this licensing thing be... For example, I was in the military, and certain systems have no access to the internet... Closed intra-nets with thousands of computers... Now, if they upgraded their systems to XP, how are they going to register with Microsoft, call up, and register each individual workstation, and server... I think not... It just seems very unwieldy...

 

[PCResources]

<< from all I've read it's far too primitive in the UI dept >>



Don't believe everything you read, try it out yourself... You have absolutely nothing to loose, after all, it is free... For the beginner, try Mandrake 7.2 coupled with StarOffice...

And please, it is not very hard to learn how it works, it is actually very easy, so don't just quit because you do not like the looks of it the first time... try it out, for real, in the same way you would do when you buy something else... then make the choice...

And do not forget, Linux is constantly under development, so even if you tried it once, you might be happily surprised the second time you try it...

Patrick Palm

PC Resources

 

[afropick]

How many of you have installed Linux-Mandrake 7.2?

Man, that thing was so frickin' easy...

In fact, on a new computer with a blank hard drive, I'd say it's much easier than any Windows installation. Faster too.

Not everyone knows how to fdisk and partition. Mandrake will do it for you. Plus it didn't choke on my on-board RAID controller. Win2k 'bout made me piss on myself before I realized it needed a driver disk because it thought it was a SCSI device.

I think a lot of people here are thinking from a scewed perspective. Most have been using Windows for so long that anything else seems difficult. When the switch was made from DOS to Windows 3.1 to Win95 I remember how much people complained about how hard it was. &quot;My previous OS was easier&quot;. Well, duh, you're used to it!

If I were foreign to computers and I were placed in front of a Windows GUI or a Linux GUI guess what? I wouldn't know WTF to do either way Give me a little time tho' and I'm pretty sure neither would be too difficult.

Linux, IMO has more advantages to it than Windows. Of course, being that more people use Windows, most companies and the average home user prefer it. But trust me, take a big company and let them decide if they'd prefer free as opposed to somewhat ridiculous licensing fees and guess what?...

Dependencies schmupendencies. The average user doesn't do any of that kind of stuff. Update drivers, ha! I know people who don't defrag or anything. Linux would work just fine for them.
In fact viruses, defragmenting, and loads of other crap would be stuff they wouldn't have to worry about.

Some of y'all are funny. If it weren't for familiarity, many of you proabably wouldn't be so pro-windows. Let's take linux away tho'. Might as well get rid of BeOS and Macs as well. In fact I don't think I want a choice anymore. Whatever Microsoft throws this way will be fine by me!

Okay so I'm exaggerating the attitude. You get the point tho'. I even like Windows. I like Linux as well tho'.

And if you wanna go bang for the buck...

 

[MGMorden]

afropick: Excellent post. Just as an example of some things being easier I couldn't get Win2k to boot from my onboard Highpoint controller (Abit BE6) for anything. I tried several different drivers, installing to the drive while it was on the mobo then moving it to the highpoint, and just installing straight to the highpoint. NOTHING I could do would make it work. Linux is working on that controller no sweat though. Not to say that linux is easier to setup than windows (because for the most part I'll agree it's not, though this is getting beter and better), but given time it CAN be.

 

[Vinny N]

Is there an official AOL interface proggie for Linux yet?

I think that's the day that Linux will be friendly enough, when AOL decides to send out free trial CDs of AOL for Linux software.

 

[Soybomb]

Linux setup is pretty easy. I think most people could get a linux distro installed. Now getting it good and usable is another thing. What distro is out there that has a really good browser (ohhh yeah the choices just aren't there yet....no IE.....mozilla is okay, opera isn't as good as its windows brother....) everyone with a winmodem/winprinter is left confused in the water, TTF is pretty important out of the box, getting opengl acceleration is a problem. Tarballs scare most users, they want a double click pretty graphical install as a standard. rpm's are nice until there is a dependecy problem, apt-get is cool too, but neither are perfect. New hardware support just isn't great, almost every packaged boot loader sucks hard.....I could go on.


Linux isn't ready for being a prime time desktop os yet, there are still a couple more years worth of work yet before its a good option.

 

5 days until Mac OS X ships.



<<
Linus, the god of the mischief, spread his poison across the land in the form of a gift. Those who became intoxicated by Linus? enticement turned on Lord Jobs. On the day of reckoning the servants of Linus were banished to the core of the Earth. Leaving the kernel of their being never to be uplifted again.

Jobs 16:22
>>

 

[JorgeElPrimero]

I have been reading that linux is FREE. Where can I get it for free.

 

[skriefal]

Eug stated:


<< I agree with pm. If the Linux community actually starts listening to the general population maybe it will take off there. >>



Valid point; however, I suspect that a large portion of the Linux community doesn't want to cater to the general populace. I think there's a belief that catering to the general populace will result in little more than hordes of &quot;dumbed down&quot; Linux distributions.

Personally, I think &quot;dumbed down&quot; distributions are a perfectly valid desire and would help to increase Linux's acceptance. As long as there continues to be NON-dumbed down distributions for those (such as myself) who wish it, of course...

 

[azeker1]

I absolutely refuse to rent my software from Microsoft. Furthermore, I will not call them for permission to re-install my OS. Since we are all familiar with the legendary rock-solid stability of Microsoft products, anyway, that certainly wouldn't be inconvenient. SHEESH! I would spend more time on the phone to Redmond than I would using my system... and all for one low monthly payment! Not friggin likely.

I will stick with my current Win 98SE and Win2k Pro, until new technology renders them completely useless. Then I will shift all of my computing to Linux or Mac OS or BeOS or whatever. My first successful Linux install (dual boot Turbo Linux/Win 9x box) has been up and running for over a year now and I have three more distributions on my desk (Red Hat, Caldera, &amp; Corel) that are just waiting for me to cobble together the hardware to put them on and then I will not have to worry about Microsoft's latest scheme!

Oh, and I won't use Office XP either! I have Office 97 &amp; 2k Pro, which work just fine and I was using Star Office years before Sun bought it. In fact, the toughest MS product to say goodbye to might be IE, just because so many other programs use it. Nonetheless, I'm even ready to bail on that if Netscape would get it together, though I'm also fond of Opera and could use it as my sole alternative.

 

[azeker1]

Jorge: Here is one place Corel Linux. Just download it and burn it onto a CD.

 

[JellyBaby]

<< I absolutely refuse to rent my software from Microsoft. Furthermore, I will not call them for permission to re-install my OS. >>

Many feel that way. Lets hope its enough to prevent MS from getting away with it. Other companies tend to copy what MS does, right or wrong and the software market in general simply can't support very many rental and hardware locking schemes. There's a limit -- a few of the first companies may get away with it but not all.

 

[Xerin]

Linux shares a major weakness with the Mac OS: the vast majority of quality titles (especially games) don't run on these systems. Sad, but true...I was a Mac-addict for a long time until I finally accepted this and came over to the Dark Side.

That's not going to change with XP. Frankly, I doubt that Microsoft is naive enough to think every consumer out there has access to the internet and is willing to pay a subscription for their operating system. Given that Microsoft is putting all of its eggs in the XP basket, XP has to be offered in an off-line package as well.

 

[MGMorden]

This is a very correctable weakness though. If linux becomes more acceptable to the general population then the games will come out for it. The problem (I feel) with this though is that since Linux is ineheretly free, most people in the Linux world currently don't want to pay for a game (I personally don't mind it if it's a quality product. Warcarft 3 for linux would get bought by me in a heart beat if they released it). If we could get to a popularity level though where Dell and/or Gateway would offer Linux as a pre-installed option (especially at a $50 discount compared to the MS products), then this would change, as we would at least start to see the $14.95 Deer Hunting games pop up (that's when we know we've achieved success ).

 

[ndee]

OK, I didn't read the whole thread, but if someone complains about the GUI.... has he tried KDE 2.0? It really rocks, no question, and the Konqueror browser is IMHO also better than the crappy Netscape Browser.

 

[evanichka]

well back to the topic....

Yeah like some articles on the net said, MS should add an option to stop the subscription when upgrading comps, i constantly update my comp (new mobo, cpu, HD, etc.) and callin MS each time seems like a pain in the ass...

One thing about Linux that i really like is that it doesn't require as good of a computer as win2k for servers. I am currently running a compaq 133mhz with 32mb of ram as a file server for my win2k network. I think installing even win2k pro would kill that thing, and my 1ghz with 512mb of ram seems slow in win2k AS, but then it is win2kas lol.

Linux was quite easy to install, and drivers for old components seem somewhat easier to find then win2k, even if they are crappy drivers. I thought the GUI seemed quite slow, but running it in just the regular prompt mode seemed good to me, reminds me of the good old DOS days.

A really nice thing about win2k is that it has built in terminal client licenses, but buying client licenses for other OSes (even win9x) is really bothersome. But then i guess this is MS's fault since they implemented that whole licensing BS in win2k. Have yet to try Citrix tho (too bad they charge per client too).

Ok, getting off track again, will stop now...

 

[evanichka]

oh btw, i just attended one of those MS technet briefings here in Hawaii today, and they advertise too much MS crap, but then what did i expect? It is &quot;MS&quot; technet. But i really like the network load balancing and clustering service presentation. How can you do this kind of stuff in linux? Run bunch of computers as a cluster?

 

[Priit]

Just one word: Beowolf

I have to admit that I use M$ OS too... about once in week I boot into W98 and do some gaming Everything else I can do better under linux thought...

 

[skace]

Wee, gotta throw my own opinions in here...

Everyone is saying Linux has a long way to go, but what I don't think they know is that Linux has gone a long way and continues each day,week,month and year. Redhat 7 is a snap to install and gnome is a very friendly GUI. It works like Windows with desktop shortcuts, a startmenu, and a clock in the lower right. Except everything is changeable and not much digging is required to how to change them. Much like how Windows has desktop properties, Gnome has a massive desktop configuration program where you can turn off options or change themes/etc.

So whats my problem with Linux? Fear of incompatability. I am afraid of using an OS where I don't know how much is supported. Yes, Linux support for hardware and software is increasing at a rapid rate, but it's just not in the comfort zone yet. Someone running Win98 can assume everything they buy software/hardware wise is already supported, without even checking! This is the hugest feature any user could possibly want. If something doesn't work they blaim the hardware/software because everything is supposed to work in win98 regardless (not my view but a common view).

As far as StarOffice is concerned, it is ugly, I admit that. But, it gets the job done a lot better than MS Office. Here is an example: A few weeks back a secretary made a mistake on a powerpoint presentation that was to be used in a huge meeting. The file ended up being 180 megs due to very hi-res photographs and a corrupted GIF. After the file was closed and saved no one could open it again. It was just too big or corrupted and Office just sat there eating up ram until your computer ran out of virtual memory. We took this same powerpoint file to a linux station running StarOffice and it opened right up. What had Star Office done differently? Star Office was smart enough to disable the corrupted/hi-res GIF from functioning where as MS Office kept trying to load it until you ran out of room! It is features like this that people don't see and don't realize exist.

Linux probably isn't the greatest to setup on your personal computer at home right now. But, at work it is a whole different story. You get 1 intelligent person to setup the networkable build and custom design it to how the company wants it and boom done. The networkable build will work a lot better than any windows NT one will. We have a build working now and I just rebuilt a company laptop on it, this thing rocks .

My prediction? Linux will gain more and more popularity in the workplace due to its obvious price cuts (price cuts due more towards using PCs in place of Unix workstations). This popularity will further push Linux developement, ease of use, and eventually people will want it in their home to have ultimate work->home compatibility.

In the end, no matter what happens I am just glad to see other operating systems becoming such a threat to Microsoft. Win2000 is nice but nowhere near the quality a company like Microsoft should be able to churn out.

 

[TCool]

Linux a threat to Windows??? Yeah right.

I've never seen a worse joke of an operating system than Linux is. And you can darn well bet just about every Linux user is still running Windows on a dual boot... why... because they know Linux doesn't have near all they want.

I've never had so many problems with an operating system as what I had with Linux. And that doesn't even count how badly the programs suck for it.

Sure I don't agree with a lot of Microsofts business practices, such as all the money they rake in, and their stupid new registering process. But I'll take it any day over Linux. I'd rather run a MAC than I would Linux.

 

[MGMorden]

<<
I've never seen a worse joke of an operating system than Linux is. And you can darn well bet just about every Linux user is still running Windows on a dual boot... why... because they know Linux doesn't have near all they want.
>>


True. I still dual boot Windows for games. But why do I run Linux in the first place? Because Windows doesn't have near all I want.

Because YOU don't have the competence to set things up doesn't mean that something sucks. One mistake many people seem to make is to think that they are the perfect result of computer skills evolution and that if they can't set something up then it must suck.

It has tons of free software (all of which works EXTREMELY well w/ the exception of the printing system) and is quite easy to setup as many have already stated. PLZ explain to me how a fully functional, quite reliable, and quite cost effective piece of software is a joke? So Win9x with all it's crashes and a price tag over $100 when something out there does better for free isn't a joke? Give me a break.