MicroStar K7T Turbo review

[LXi]

From our own Anandtech...

http://www1.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1410


This thread has turned into a flamewar and has run it's course.


AnandTech Moderator

 

[NaughtyusMaximus]

Looks pretty nice. I like the fact that its a Promise raid chip instead of a Highpoint.

One thought though:

<<Once again, just like the K7T Pro2, the K7T Turbo did not crash once in our standard 24-hour stress tests. We pushed it even harder and the K7T Turbo still didn?t crash once even after 48 hours of stress tests. Do we need to say more?>>

So why does that rate a 9.5 instead of a 10?

 

[LukFilm]

Simple, nothing is perfect. No product should ever get a ten for anything.

 

[NaughtyusMaximus]

Uhh..

I think that depends what we're rating. If it were speed, then yes, I can agree with you. But this is simple, the board cannot possibly crash less than zero times, therefore if it does crash 0 times, it warrants a perfect grade.

 

[LXi]

Well, just so they can save some room for improvement, maybe some other board can do zero crashes in 72 hours. Just keep this in mind, nobody has gotten 9.5 for stability ever, the K7T Turbo is the first one to do so.

 

[Modus]

With this kind of stability who needs Intel?

Modus

 

[andreasl]

I have just one major problem with this review...

We were lucky enough to receive a pre-production sample of the K7T Turbo from MSI for evaluation purposes, and it?stime to see how it compares with other KT133A motherboards. However, keep in mind that this is a pre-production, so the final release version may be slightly different.

Maybe it should have been a preview instead?

 

[LXi]

Well over the past few years Anandtech has always treated previews like reviews, so I dont think there is a big deal.

 

[Mem]

<< We were lucky enough to receive a pre-production sample of the K7T Turbo from MSI for evaluation purposes, and it?stime to see how it compares with other KT133A motherboards. However, keep in mind that this is a pre-production, so the final release version may be slightly different. >>




If anything the final production model should be better,if that`s possible.

 

[Dennis Travis]

From reading the article very carefully I feel the reason Mike gave it a 9.5 VS a perfect 10 is BECAUSE it's a pre-production board and not the final release. The Final boards that go to the stores for sale might be even better but they could also be worse so I think they are waiting to see what the real production Kt7 Pro Turbo's actually do. Just a thought. But it sure was stable though just like some server boards I have seen tested. I hope the final production boards are this good!!

 

[Gothmoth]

but only 147 mhz possible?

maybe anandtech should search for better memory?
i have seen test with kt133a boards up to 166 MHz.

one question about the KT7 TURBO, has this board the 3 phase power solution like abit and epox?

i think its important for future cpu´s witch (maybe) need higher amps?!

and whats up with 1.5 gb of ram (i will update to 1.5 gb soon)?
i have read about issues with msi boards and 1.5 gb ram.

btw: this review on andantech was bad (imho).
i would have seen a more &quot;in deep&quot; test with more benchmarks.
anandtech is gettig lazy? ;-)

 

[Charles]

My Gosh:

The result? MSI is still the king of stability. Once again, during our 24-hour stress tests, the K7T Turbo system did not crash once. Compared to the two crashes by the ABIT and EPoX boards, the K7T Turbo definitely earns some points here. Since we didn¡¯t encountered any crashes at all for 24 hours, we decided to run the stability tests even longer on the K7T Turbo to see how long it would take the board to fail. Surprisingly, after running the system non-stop for more than 48 hours, we still did not encounter a single crash.

I will definately get this motherboard.

 

[Wolfman35]

Some points that I find Interesting in Mikes review are the fact that he (or Anand for that matter) never mentions the Pro 2A. Only the Pro 2 board is mentioned as being MSI's standard for &quot;Stablility&quot;. Leaving off the A is not (IMHO) a time saving device but a Clear indication that Anand (et al) knows about the problems that exist with the Pro2A implementation of the 686B and won;t mention it outright for PR reasons. I don't see this as &quot;caving in&quot; to the money men but rather as what Momma told us .... &quot;If you can't say something Nice --- Don't say anything at all&quot;

Also, I see that Mike had some trouble with the multiplier settings as well. Interesting. I admit that for most users here at Anandtech the lack of being able to utilize LOWER multipliers is not a huge factor, for the mainstream User it IS HUGE !!! Believe it or not ... Most people refuse to Overclock thier system. Anandtech is not the &quot;Whole World&quot;

Now for the &quot;bug in my shorts&quot;: I just finished &quot;attempting&quot; to set up a Pro2A board with a Duron 800 that ran at 1100 on an Epox (8KTA2) board just hours before attempting to use it in the Pro2A system. 8.5 and lower multipliers worked fine but 9.5 yeilded 850 and anything else above 8.5 POSTed at 800. Back to the Epox and powers up at 1100 (11X100). OK ... I try a 1G Bird on the Pro2A. 10-12 multipliers work fine but you can't Underclock it !!!! (8-10 yeilds default 1000). This makes 5 Pro2A's I have had with multiplier problems (out of 20) and thats not to mention the ATA100/USB/Cold restart &quot;Issues&quot; Arrrrrgggghhhhh!! Both these Processors work flawlessly on my bench Pro2 (non A) and KT7 as well as on the Epox 8KTA2's.

How can you guys Ignore all these reports of problems with the Pro2A and HOW Can Mike give the Pro Turbo a 8.5 when he admittedly had multiplier problems that would not allow the board to be utilized in a manner that most &quot;normal&quot; users would implement (non-overclocked at 7.5X133)??? Note that in the review of the Epox 8KTA3 this was not an &quot;issue&quot; and I personally have an Epox KTA3/1.1G Bird at 1460 (11X133) that performs flawlessly at any multiplier setting. (yeah an Orb won't fit it ..so what. The cheesy Cooler Master runs at <42C under load)

I will buy one (K7T Pro Turbo) and try it hands on but &quot;We&quot; collectively, as a group that many non-techies look to for advice and recommendations, have to be more objective.

 

[Charles]

HOW Can Mike give the Pro Turbo a 8.5 when he admittedly had multiplier problems that would not allow the board to be utilized in a manner that most &quot;normal&quot; users would implement (non-overclocked at 7.5X133)???

I assume you didn't read the whole article.

<<...with the old BIOS, you might not be able to lower the multiplier in order to take advantage of higher FSB speeds. For example, if you have a 1GHz (100MHz FSB) CPU and you want to run it at 133MHz FSB, you would be out of luck since the multiplier ratio is 10, and even if you unlocked the CPU, you will not be able to get the multiplier ratio down to 7.5 on the K7T Turbo.>>

<<...Fortunately, after some discussion with MSI, they released another revision of the BIOS, 10F, which has multiplier ratios from 5 to 12.5 available. We immediately flashed the new BIOS and ran all the tests again.>>

<<...Either way, you should have no problem in accessing lower multiplier ratio after a simple BIOS update.>>

 

[Wolfman35]

Charlie: Keyword is &quot;Should&quot;. I read every word of Mikes review and Nowhere does it say that 10F fixed the problem. Just that Mike flashed to it. He neglects to list the settings he used to test at 133-147 FSB. Also why would MSI release a BIOS that doesn't work (10D-E) with such an obviously important function? 10D-E HAD Lower multiplier settings available.... They just didn't Work!!!! Sure seems like a random CMOS pull-up issue to me.

Assuming this is a random problem on a board - board basis I agree that the Stability of a FUNCTIONAL MSI Pro 2A/Turbo board is awesome and an RMA is not a huge problem for those using only one or two boards but for Systems Integrators who &quot;use&quot; 100's of boards a higher than average defect rate is a Huge Issue !!!!

Since Mikes &quot;conversations&quot; with MSI left him with some doubt that MSI was going to include 10F in it's production boards it has to make you wonder why?? Rush to production perhaps?? Not a good sign IMHO.

Edit: BTW, MSI's overall defect rate is one of the best in the Industry (as is Asus) but it includes the entire line of boards which reflects the near perfect rate of the BX Master, 6337 815E Pro, Original 6330 Pro and 6330 Pro2. The ALARMINGLY High defect rate of the 6330 Pro2A has yet to really impact the overall rate. Market share and High volume production has it's drawbacks and QC is unfortunately the first one to show up.

 

[NFS4]

<< There are a total of only two fan headers on the motherboard, one for the CPU HSF unit and one for the front chassis fan. This is odd since most of the time there are at least three fan headers, where one is for CPU HSF unit and two for chassis fans. In the PC Health panel inside BIOS, you will be able to read two temperatures and the speed of the two fans. >>


The KT7A has four, three of which I will be using...possible four if I plan on taking advantage of the three intakes fan spot in my case


<< Just like the EPoX board, you will need to set a jumper on the motherboard in order to go from the 100MHz ? 132MHz range to the 133MHz ? 166MHz range. This is much easier than setting the FSB speed using only jumpers or dipswitches, but it is just not as easy as the ABIT KT7A-RAID, which is fully jumperless. >>


Dipswitches are the devil


<< Also, as we mentioned before, our sample of the K7T Turbo does not have a HSF unit on the 8363A North Bridge. Instead they just put a normal heat sink on the North Bridge. From our testing we have shown that at 147MHz, the heat sink is still capable of cooling the North Bridge to a suitable range. On the other hand, since the memory is the limiting factor now, the question still remains on whether the North Bridge can stand the heat at even higher FSB speeds without a fan. >>


Yeah, let's go against the grain and not use a fan to save a few bucks...cheapskates!! No thank you!

I'm glad I ordered my Abit KT7A

 

[Charles]

Wolfman35, I'm a bit confused too. But at least they fixed it, not sure if 4-Way Interleaving will be enabled in BIOS though...

Having only 2 fan headers is not a problem for me since I only use 1 case fan and 1 cpu fan for my system.

 

[duragezic]

How come there isn't any stability problems (at least not mentioned anyway) witht his even those it has the same B south bridge as the Pro2a? He was using a IBM 75GXP ATA/100 too.

Anyway I'm realling looking to upgrade but I'm not sure if I can get the money. I wish they made Durons that went up to 1ghz or so. Well this board looks great I'll have to see the price of it and the price of 133mhz Tbirds.

 

[Wolfman35]

Eagle: Read the &quot;Edit&quot; in my previous Post for an explaination of MSI's stability Issues. Stability and Functionality are two seperate items. Non-functional components are obviously not included in Anand's Stability rating scale. Also the real beauty of a 133 FSB capability is running a Duron 800 at 8X133=1064. These 133+ FSB Boards are perfect for low multiplier CPU's. The Duron's will get a bigger boost from the increased memory clock. Great Idea VIA ... Bad implementation MSI.

Also, I agree with NFS4 about the chipset fan. In an implementation where the CPU Cooler exhausts it's hot air directly onto the chipset sink (non- sucking Alpha Style) this is a REAL Bad idea !!! ALL well designed CPU Coolers should suck air Thru the sink and exhaust it into the PS (or Case exhaust fan) Stream. Another design that needs some updating ... but thats another thread.

Hey NFS4 ... You still sleepin on Anand's office Couch?

Edit: Charlie ... Did they fix it? My bet is the Turbo board will be (and already has been) produced with the 10 D or E BIOS and WE will have to &quot;Try&quot; and fix it.

 

[Biggs]

I have a few rants,

1) The Abit KT7A-R's HighPoint controllers supports RAID 0 + 1
2) The Abit KT7A-R has a fan on the north bridge.
3) The Abit KT7A-R has no AMR slot.
4) The Abit KT7A-R has no el cheapo built-in audio solution.
5) The Abit KT7A-R has an ISA slot.
6) The Abit KT7A-R has a second USB controller hub
7) The Abit KT7A-R is fully jumperless.

These are just some of the few &quot;advantages&quot; of the Abit KT7A-R as of this time. I was really routing for the MSI K7T Turbo-R but it seems they somewhat &quot;failed&quot; my expectations. The stability is a big factor though but I'm leaning towards the Abit KT7A-R as of this time. Maybe the final product version of the MSI K7T Turbo will be better. I doubt that they'll do &quot;major&quot; changes though.

 

[Noriaki]

What's the big deal with the HSF on the north bridge?

You keep your chipset cooler...give me a heatsink for my clock gen chip, that thing is at least 2x as hot as the heatsink on my friend's A7V northbridge.

The northbridge fan is a gimmick. Get a clock gen HSF then I'll be happy.

 

[NFS4]

The northbridge gets toasty. Read the previous two KT133A reviews on Anandtech. If even Asus is putting one on their boards then you KNOW that something is up.

Otherwise, I'll pass on this one....NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Biggs]

It makes you wonder though since both Abit and MSI were able to achieve same FSB overclocking performance. Maybe the heatsink suffices for now but again, maybe if it is possible to go beyond 147Mhz FSB, maybe the HSF on the north bridge would play a more significant role.

 

[NFS4]

<< It makes you wonder though since both Abit and MSI were able to achieve same FSB overclocking performance. Maybe the heatsink suffices for now but again, maybe if it is possible to go beyond 147Mhz FSB, maybe the HSF on the north bridge would play a more significant role. >>


If you read the previous to KT133A reviews, you will see that chipset heat comes into play after 147

 

[Biggs]

So that's another advantage for Abit assuming it's possible to go beyond 147.