Mid-Low Cost ITX Dual Monitor Build

[justaguy168]

Please comment on this build:

• 1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.
  Light MS Office 2003, & Quicken, (no multi-acre spreadsheets here, Yahoo mail, Streaming iTunes audio, streaming video from YouTube / Netflix / Hulu. Needs to have dual monitor so can view bank statement and Quicken simultaneously. There are minor vision / acuity issues here.
• 2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread
  Around $600 including two new monitors. If the build burns out in two years than it's too cheap and not worth it. Am looking for a base level of quality here but not much more than that.
• 3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.
  USA have centered around Newegg but willing to go to other e-tailers or retailers in NYC area.
• 4. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.
  No preference but the AMD / Zacate / Hudson route seems most economical.
• 5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.
  Keyboard, mouse, speakers.
• 6. Not on sticky
  Why?
• 7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.
  Default speeds.
• 8. What resolution will you be using?
  2 LCD widescreen monitors 1366 x 768 each
• 9. WHEN do you plan to build it?
  ASAP
• 10. Do you need to purchase any software to go with the system, such as Windows or Blu Ray playback software?
  Need to purchase Windows Home Premium. Already have Quicken and MS Office 2003.

The configuration I have come up with is:

Price  Component  Newegg # / Link  Desc 
-----  ---------  ---------------  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  $65  Case/PSU   [URL="http://redirect.anandtech.com/r?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FProduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16811133093&user=u00000687"]N82E16811133093[/URL]  Thermaltake Element Q VL52021N2U Black SGCC / Plastic Mini-ITX Desktop Computer Case 200W SFX Power Supply
   $7  Case Fan   [URL="http://redirect.anandtech.com/r?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FProduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16811999069&user=u00000687"]N82E16811999069[/URL]  Cooler Master SAF-B82-E1 80mm Case Fan
  $94  ITX Mobo   [URL="http://redirect.anandtech.com/r?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FProduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16813157228&user=u00000687"]N82E16813157228[/URL]  ASRock E350M1 AMD E-350 APU (1.6GHz, Dual-Core) AMD A50M Hudson M1 Mini ITX MOBO/CPU Combo
  $42  Memory     [URL="http://redirect.anandtech.com/r?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FProduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16820134928&user=u00000687"]N82E16820134928[/URL]  Kingston 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Desktop Memory Model KVR1066D3N7K2/8G
  $85  HDD        [URL="http://redirect.anandtech.com/r?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FProduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16822145531&user=u00000687"]N82E16822145531[/URL]  HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000.D 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Bare Drive
  $38  ODD        [URL="http://redirect.anandtech.com/r?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FProduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16827249071&user=u00000687"]N82E16827249071[/URL]  PLEXTOR Internal CD/DVD Multi Burner SATA Model PX-L890SA
 $190  Win 7 OS   [URL="http://redirect.anandtech.com/r?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FProduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16832116716&user=u00000687"]N82E16832116716[/URL]  Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium
-----  ---------  ---------------  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 $521  Subtotal
 
 $176  2 Monitor  [URL="http://redirect.anandtech.com/r?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bestbuy.com%2Fsite%2FAsus%2B-%2B18.5%2522%2BWidescreen%2BFlat-Panel%2BLED-LCD%2BMonitor%2B-%2BBlack%2F1623903.p%3Fid%3D1218273846967&user=u00000687"]1623903[/URL]          Asus - 18.5" Widescreen Flat-Panel LED-LCD Monitor - Black [URL]http://************/7g5vhbb[/URL] (Asus 18.5" Best Buy)
  $16  NYC Tax    8.875% 
=====  =========  ===============  ==================================================================================================
 $713  TOTAL      not including extended warranty

Rationales & Questions:

• ITX vs mATX: Newegg is pushing the ITX combo boards and giving good deals on them. Makes it cheaper then a mATX setup. Going with a mATX solution was actually more expensive. Cheapest cases / mobo in my performance range were Antec Minuet w 350W PSU and ASUS E35M1-M PRO Fusion Hudson Mobo. That subtotalled $50 higher at $565. This post was interesting but I think it is too underpowered. I'd also be interested in the forum's comparison.
• Case: fits an ITX board and a 5.25" optical and 3.25" hard disk drive. I'm quite worried about the quality and sufficient power of the CPU. I chose the Thermaltake case because Newegg has been touting it on their YouTube channel and it seems to have the best price / performance point. Another option is the InWin BP Series Newegg part number N82E16811108396 or N82E16811108196. Another thread in this forum seems to think a Zacate E-350 system should come in under 60 watts. So a 220 PSU should be fine, no? Will mod the case with an extra 80 mm fan. This CoolerMaster fan seemed to move the most air at a reasonable noise level? What do others think?
• Mobo: has right price performance point. Was originally going to go with an i3 but opted for this because I think performance will be what I need. According to page 16 of their manual it does support dual monitors. It seems there is tremendous economy to buying the board and CPU together.
• Memory: I believe this is one of the chips explicitly listed on ASRock's compatibility manual on page 3 here. One place where my knowledge is weak is with memory timing and performance. I would especially welcome input from the forum here.
• Hard Disk Drive: My parents arent likely to save a lot of graphics and video. Dad's audio collection is not large. I was able to shave a few bucks off off by going with the 500 GB over the 1 TB which I think will be plenty large. Tossup between WD Blue and Hitachi. I chose Hitachi because I heard it was inexpensive, has a bigger cache and shipping is free. It is one of the big 4 (Seagate / W Digital / Hitachi / Samsung).
• Optical: This is the main moving part and I don't believe in chintzing here. In a highly commoditized niche I have heard the best things about Plextor.
• Monitors: least expensive but monitors I could find. One will use the DVI-D port and the other will use the Dsub port. Feel the need to go with local brick-and-mortar store here in case of defects. Shipping / sales tax is probably a wash. Interested if folks think these monitors are too low quality. See related discussion on this thread. Is LED worth it?
• Extended Warranty: Are they worth it? For which components?
• Custom vs. store-bought: As far as the rationale behind build instead of buying a Dell or HP: I've been pretty soured on the tech support from both and do not look forward to pulling off all the crapware only to be told "we only support our configuration" if something goes wrong. Also economically, their margins are too small to make putting quality parts in worthwhile. In the end, I can get a box that better meets my needs and is easier to support for cheaper if I do it myself.

~ Ken

 

[N4g4rok]

The only real advantage you'll have there is the price. The E-350 likes to get choked up on heavy number crunching, to the extent that heavy excel/quicken calculations might occasionally result in "go do something while waiting" scenarios.

For ~$700, it seems solid, but it would be hard to say you could see that think keeping up in 18 months let alone two years.

 

[sandorski]

My understanding is that Netflix does not work well with the e-350. That said, Zotac and Sapphire have full systems available with the e-450 that might work. They are also very affordable($350-400), I don't know if they would support Dual Monitors though. Looks like the Zotac would be your best bet of these 2.

That said, you're probably going to need to go with an i3 or Llano based setup to get a decent Netflix and other usage experience. That said, maybe that Resolution will work fine on the e-350 for Netflix, most of what I've heard about it has been with 1080p.

 

[lehtv]

Case/PSU Seems like a decent choice for E-350 ITX
Mobo/CPU Slow. Let's see what we can do after saving on other parts.
RAM I'd argue that 4GB RAM is enough for this build. E.g. a single 4GB stick ($20) so you can add another stick later. It doesn't need to be on any compatibility list. DDR3 works on DDR3 boards.
HDD Decent choice, but you can get a 500GB seagate drive for $75.
ODD Well, do you use this very often? I'm not very convinced this is worth $18 over this Asus DVD burner.
OS Buy the OEM version of Windows 7 for $100.
Monitors Low resolution...

Now with the above savings, it's $573 down from $713. That leaves $140 to spend where it matters. Switch to Intel and microATX for better performance and platform flexibility/upgradeability, and higher resolution monitors.

Case/PSU: Fractal Design Core 1000 $40 + Antec Neo Eco 400C $28 after rebate & promo (increase: $3)
Mobo/CPU: Asrock H61M/U3S3 $70 + Celeron G530 $52 (increase: $29)
Monitors 2x Acer G245HQABD 23" 1080p monitors $120 after promo each, $240 total (increase: $48)

Total = $645 AR AP

The PSU and case are both easily higher quality than the Thermaltake ITX case/psu. The ASrock board has HDMI, DVI and VGA connections, and those monitors have DVI and VGA. One will obviously connect to DVI, but the other one can be either straight VGA or DVI-HDMI via an adapter. The CPU is about three times faster than E350.

Now you still have money to spend. I'd spend it on a small SSD, it'd make a huge difference to system responsiveness. Crucial M4 64GB is $86 on Adorama (never heard, but it's the cheapest option...) or $95 on newegg.

 

[justaguy168]

My understanding is that Netflix does not work well with the e-350 . . . you're probably going to need to go with an i3 or Llano based setup to get a decent Netflix and other usage experience. That said, maybe that Resolution will work fine on the e-350 for Netflix, most of what I've heard about it has been with 1080p.

Sandorski, thank you for pointing this out. It looks like this was brought up by adam_the_giant in another thread here. Am I right in saying that the E-350 processor will handle standard definition Netflix on the computer screen but will not handle 1080p HDMI output to a high definition monitor?

Lehtv, I think this is a wise approach you are proposing. It is in fact what adam_the_giant wound up doing in the end. It also closely mirrors my system that I have at home. This system is for my parents and I thought I could save money and make things simple by going with the all-in-one solution. Alas, perhaps not so. Yes the extra memory and SSD could be a "for later" purchase. The mobo, case, and psu are much much better suggestions. However, the two 23" monitors might be too much for Dad.

Would two of these 20" Acers work as well?
Also is the Celeron G530 really powerful enough for Win 7 and light MS Office tasks?

This is a genuine question (not a criticism) because my knowledge comes from reading a lot of web sites and not assembling very much.

 

[lehtv]

However, the two 23" monitors might be too much for Dad.

Would two of these 20" Acers work as well?

I think 23" 1080p for $120 is better value than 20" 1600x900 for $100. But if you're saying that your dad simply doesn't have use for two 1080p monitors, that's fine.

Are you sure a single 1080p monitor wouldn't do? Windows 7 is nice in that it allows you to easily partition the screen into two by dragging windows onto the side so they snap in place to fill half the screen. Would you not be able to fit the bank statement and Quicken onto an area of 960x1080 each?

Also is the Celeron G530 really powerful enough for Win 7 and light MS Office tasks?

Easily. For a Celeron, it's pretty damn fast. About equal to a 2.5GHz Core 2 Duo.

 

[lehtv]

Another thing I should mention - would 128GB of space be enough? If so, you could make this an SSD only system. Crucial M4 128GB (best bang for buck reliable drive) can be had for as low as $153.

 

[richaron]

Another thing I should mention - would 128GB of space be enough? If so, you could make this an SSD only system. Crucial M4 128GB (best bang for buck reliable drive) can be had for as low as $153.

Good point.

SSDs are awesome & it's hard to fill that much space without games or media.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I'm just want to echo the 1x 1080p monitor instead of 2x lower-res monitors sentiment.

Unless your dad is just incapable of doing the window management thing and gets hopefully confused by things that aren't full screen.

I'd also much rather go with a desktop-derived CPU like the Celeron or Pentium G series, as opposed to an E-350 or Atom system. Icky.

 

[Zap]

Are you sure a single 1080p monitor wouldn't do? Windows 7 is nice in that it allows you to easily partition the screen into two by dragging windows onto the side so they snap in place to fill half the screen.

Easier way to do it: Hold down the Windows key on the keyboard and press the left or right arrow keys. The active window will then snap to the left or right side of the screen, filling up exactly half.

 

[lehtv]

Easier way to do it: Hold down the Windows key on the keyboard and press the left or right arrow keys. The active window will then snap to the left or right side of the screen, filling up exactly half.

Thanks for the tip. On my keyboard though, there's only one Windows key and it's on the left side of Space, so Win+arrow would require using both hands. Easier for me to just use the mouse.

 

[justaguy168]

In NYC, there is a local brand of soda called Dr. Browns. Ironically, their least popular flavor is their most iconic: CEL-RAY. It is celery -- yes celery -- flavored soda which harkens back to a time decades ago when the garment industry thrived and kids played stoop ball and ring-a-leveo in the street and the Brooklyn Trolley Dodgers wowed crowds at Ebbets Field. A few die-hards still fiercely love it, I personally still grimace at the memory of my last taste years ago. Dr. Browns doesn't make a profit on Cel-ray and doesn't dare discontinue it. The brand is too identified with the flavor.

Easily. For a Celeron, it's pretty damn fast. About equal to a 2.5GHz Core 2 Duo.

Wow! I had an IT manager who used to call that the "Cel-ray chip." That's why I shied away from it. I thought it was like still rooting for Gil Hodges. But I'll definitely consider it for Dad's build -- he did root for Gil Hodges after all. Obviously they've updated it somehow to run with the other Sandybridge boys.

I'm just want to echo the 1x 1080p monitor instead of 2x lower-res monitors sentiment.
Unless your dad is just incapable of doing the window management thing and gets hopefully confused by things that aren't full screen.

Dad does get confused by things that aren't full screen but he is more capable of learning window sizing then my Mother. But she doesn't have the 2 screen need. I'm going to stop by tomorrow and see if he is up for this.

I'd also much rather go with a desktop-derived CPU like the Celeron or Pentium G series, as opposed to an E-350 or Atom system. Icky.

I am beginning to really see your point. Between the arguments on this post and the technical points made in Adam_the_Giant's post we have a scathing expose of AMD, Newegg and Microsoft's Silverlight team. AMD and Newegg are aggressively dumping a low priced processor and board -- the E350 Hudson -- and touting it as a home theater pc when it can't service the industry leader in internet home theater. Paul Heimlich from Newegg ran a very public two-part video over 30 minutes in length on Newegg's Youtube channel touting the benefits of this type of board for this type of purpose. On the other hand, Microsoft, who should be playing nice with others, has probably decided not to fix the E350 / Silverlight incompatibility perhaps in view of it's strategic alliance with Intel. While I don't think we've got another Mike Daisey play here, I do smell a rat.

I am very very grateful to all that have posted for steering me away from a more difficult path. Rather then become emmeshed in industry intrigue, I now have some good direction to follow.

~ Ken