Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor - anyone here excited about this game? update-reviews!

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SLU Aequitas

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2007
1,252
26
91
The mouse feel in this game is terrible. The acceleration is so bad.

It's bad on the 360 controller as well, definitely irks me. Also the movement is not as smooth/developed as ACIV+, so that's kind of a bummer. Didn't play enough to get an idea of the game overall.

I will say for settings, on my system below, I have everything at Ultra, all options enabled, HD pack set up, and with Vsyc enabled, I'm at a constant 60fps, only a couple of dips in the benchmark (not actual gameplay). No stutter that I've noticed (but I haven't been through much of the game).
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
In the first minute of the game, I climbed a wall, let loose an arrow on a cage lock that held a Caragors, that when released attacked and killed the four Uruks watching it. All while I watched atop the wall. This game is AWESOME!

No issues, whatsoever for me so far. Camera gets in a little too tight at times, but that's my only complaint, and small at that.
 
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Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
106
After playing for ~4 hours I like the game. But I cannot help thinking that it is basically a combination of any Assassin's Creed game + any Batman Arkham game + Far Cry 3, all in a Middle Earth wrapping. The nemesis system is quite interesting, but I have yet to see any meaningful difference between a captain at power 3-4 and one at power 10.

Pluses:
Graphics are really good. Orc models are astoundingly good.
Music is great
Voice overs are extremely well done. Did they get the actual actors from the movies to do the voiceovers (e.g., Sirkis for Gollum)?
Mission impact is interesting
Nemesis system seems well done

Minuses -
-Game seems incredibly derivative. As mentioned above it takes elements of AC (free running, climbing, etc.), Batman (combat) and FC3 (animals) and mushes them together. But IMO it does not do any of those elements as well as the games they were taken from.

-Character movement is very "floaty."

-FOV on the PC is a bit limited. I would prefer if the camera was a bit further back from Talion. No option to adjust.

-Sound quality is iffy. The balance seems all f'ed up, and not really responsive to audio adjustments.

-Game is too easy. I had a combo counter up to 135 in an uruk stronghold once. I got tired of fighting so I ran away ~100 yards. Turned around and the 25 orcs or so I was fighting were just . . . GONE. Maybe it gets harder later.

- Finisher animations are cool at first, but there are relatively few of them so they get repetitive quite quickly.

Conclusion - I find I like the game simply because it is probably the best Middle Earth game to date. But when it is compared to its obvious influences I feel that it falls pretty short. Would have been nice if at least some of the player driven gameplay elements were original, or had their own twist. The nemesis system is pretty interesting, but it does not have a significant enough impact IMO.

Overall ratings (my opinion)
Graphics - 8.5-9 out of10 (apart from talion the game is beautiful)
Gameplay - 6.5-7 out of 10. (Too derivative and too easy)
Replay value - 5-6 out of 10 (I suspect that each game will be the same, though it will be more interesting if a new game plus is significantly harder)

Overall -7.5-8. Best Middle Earth game to date, but could benefit from myriad changes.
 
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SlitheryDee

Lifer
Feb 2, 2005
17,252
19
81
I hate the flow of combat in this game. Talion seems like he's just a little bit behind every button press I make. The game encourages you to not just mash attack over and over, but the timing disparity makes it feel like I have to in order to keep hit streaks going.

I got the upgrade where if you tap attack right at the time of impact you get double hit streak points, and trying to make that shit work is about to drive me insane. The only way I can be sure that I'm getting the timing right is to look at the hit counter in the upper left corner of the screen. If I'm looking at the hit counter in the upper left corner of the screen I'm not looking at Talion, so I miss the timing and I also miss blocking a lot of Orc attacks. Without being able to observe where exactly in the animation the correct timing is, I never get any confirmation on whether I'm doing it right or not and never get a feel for it. I think they should have put the hit counter more in the middle of the screen, maybe make it pop up quickly in smaller text right over Talion and the Orc he's fighting with every hit.

Everything else is quite nice though. The graphics look great, and the game runs very well on my system. The nemesis system is cool as hell. I got killed early on about 4 times in a row by one captain. Every time he leveled up I hated him a little more.
then I finally killed him, only to have him come back later swathed in bandages declaring that I should have made sure he was dead last time. I went on to kill him 4 times after that with him continuing to show up later even more gruesome looking, but stronger. Finally I figured out that I needed to utilize his weakness to put him down for good instead of hacking at him until he fell down.
I found myself shouting obscenities at the screen as I killed him for the last time. Obviously it felt a little personal by then. That's an experience I can't say I've ever had with a single player game before. Very cool.
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
then I finally killed him, only to have him come back later swathed in bandages declaring that I should have made sure he was dead last time. I went on to kill him 4 times after that with him continuing to show up later even more gruesome looking, but stronger. Finally I figured out that I needed to utilize his weakness to put him down for good instead of hacking at him until he fell down.

Is that part of Slither's post a bit of a spoiler best marked as such?
 

SlitheryDee

Lifer
Feb 2, 2005
17,252
19
81
then I finally killed him, only to have him come back later swathed in bandages declaring that I should have made sure he was dead last time. I went on to kill him 4 times after that with him continuing to show up later even more gruesome looking, but stronger. Finally I figured out that I needed to utilize his weakness to put him down for good instead of hacking at him until he fell down.

Is that part of Slither's post a bit of a spoiler best marked as such?

I didn't feel like it was since this mechanic isn't related to the story and is explained in almost every review of the game, but I marked it anyway. That was what made it even more interesting to me actually. That things like that can happen completely outside of the story.
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
349
126
I didn't feel like it was since this mechanic isn't related to the story and is explained in almost every review of the game, but I marked it anyway. That was what made it even more interesting to me actually. That things like that can happen completely outside of the story.

Fair enough. I was just thinking, if it sort of 'gives away the answer' and keeps people from the interesting experience you had, might be good to not tell unless they want.
 

PhatoseAlpha

Platinum Member
Apr 10, 2005
2,131
21
81
I got the upgrade where if you tap attack right at the time of impact you get double hit streak points, and trying to make that shit work is about to drive me insane. The only way I can be sure that I'm getting the timing right is to look at the hit counter in the upper left corner of the screen. If I'm looking at the hit counter in the upper left corner of the screen I'm not looking at Talion, so I miss the timing and I also miss blocking a lot of Orc attacks. Without being able to observe where exactly in the animation the correct timing is, I never get any confirmation on whether I'm doing it right or not and never get a feel for it. I think they should have put the hit counter more in the middle of the screen, maybe make it pop up quickly in smaller text right over Talion and the Orc he's fighting with every hit.

Just FYI, it's the Batman: Arkham critical system. The timing requirement is actually incredibly loose - you've got a good quarter of a second. The trick is that you can only click attack once.
 

BlueWeasel

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
15,940
474
126
After playing for ~4 hours I like the game. But I cannot help thinking that it is basically a combination of any Assassin's Creed game + any Batman Arkham game + Far Cry 3, all in a Middle Earth wrapping.

That's why I'm hesitant to pick the game up now. I loved all of the elements of Far Cry 3, but quickly grew tired of the button mashing in the Batman games. Watching gameplay videos, I see predominantly mob fights over and over.

Is there a stealth element to the game or is just a "beat this mob of orcs and move on the next one"?
 
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PhatoseAlpha

Platinum Member
Apr 10, 2005
2,131
21
81
Definitely a significant stealth element. You can sneak by most groups of orcs, or stealth kill them all if you'd like. Ledge kills, stealth drop kills. Even super-brutal highly visible stealth kills, so you can sneak up on a group, take out one orc in a matter brutal enough that all the other run away.

Some but not all of the captains can be stealth killed as well.
 

Dahak

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2000
3,752
25
91
Is there a stealth element to the game or is just a "beat this mob or orcs and move on the next one"?

There is a stealth element to it, you can for example be in stealth and do a silent kill, from ground, above, on ledge, you can after some upgrades if there is a group around a campfire or explosive barrel take them out that way too.

The bow is a low pretty stealthy, but only works for a small group

then I finally killed him, only to have him come back later swathed in bandages declaring that I should have made sure he was dead last time. I went on to kill him 4 times after that with him continuing to show up later even more gruesome looking, but stronger. Finally I figured out that I needed to utilize his weakness to put him down for good instead of hacking at him until he fell down.
I found myself shouting obscenities at the screen as I killed him for the last time. Obviously it felt a little personal by then. That's an experience I can't say I've ever had with a single player game before. Very cool.

Nice, I had wandered into a stronghold that I ran into one of the orcs that killed me a few times, and just as I was going to kill him, he retreated.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Definitely a significant stealth element. You can sneak by most groups of orcs, or stealth kill them all if you'd like. Ledge kills, stealth drop kills. Even super-brutal highly visible stealth kills, so you can sneak up on a group, take out one orc in a matter brutal enough that all the other run away.

Some but not all of the captains can be stealth killed as well.

You can also go in/out of the shadow realm at will and use it to your advantage to sneak up on people or even right in the middle of a fight you are losing to get away or have them lose track of you to attack them again.

My biggest complaint is the L-Shift for ground kills. I've not found a good button to move it to that isn't already taken for something else.

You can also distract them with a ghost figure.
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,196
197
106
I ran into what I would call classic A.I. stupidity a moment ago.

I infiltrated a stronghold just to mess around with the Uruks in it, so eventually I let myself being spotted. So one of them sounds the alarm and the entire stronghold chases me. I run to a nearby ladder, climb it and crouch once I reached the upper platform. All the stronghold's worth of Uruks were below chasing me, so they start climbing the ladder, one by one, the others below waiting to climb all crowded amongst themselves (funnily enough I would totally imagine a scene where they would actually fight amongst themselves to determine the right to climb the ladder first).

None of them took different paths (and there were a few others to reach me). And so one by one I just combo'ed them to death as they finishing climbing, and they all fell back down, dying in the process. I must have killed a good 15+ of them that way, essentially without efforts.

Oh and did I mention another classic A.I. behavior in video gaming? The one in which a patrolling enemy sees the dead body of a fellow guard? In Shadow of Mordor it's essentially on the Skyrim level of stupidity... but it's actually a little better, just a bit. They sometimes move around the body a bit to give the illusion that they're actually "searching the area" for the potential presence of the killer, but usually they stop and say something along the line of "who cares what killed him, when the killer shows up we'll kill him! ah!". They don't sound the alarm because obviously there's so many mobs in a stronghold that if you the player would risk it big time every time you'd kill just one guard it'd make the game frustrating I guess (would it?, genuinely wondering here).

" Huh, what's that... a dead Uruk, one of us! "
...* sniffs *...
" Huh, I'm thirsty... "

What I have in mind would have been something akin to the patrol making the discovery of the dead guard running back to the nearest group of guards, without necessarily sounding the alarm, and talk them into coming back to the body's location with him to do a small search in the area. They'd then be looking around as a group for maybe two or three minutes, and then claiming that they're bored, hungry or that they feel like crushing the head of their personal rivals only to finally leave the dead body to rot.

Ah, but then it hit me again...

" Ah yes... A.I., that one aspect in video gaming that pretty much never moved an inch since the past decade ".

What will it take? Another decade?

I guess I'll have to do with it. And I agree with those of you who think that the game is more easy than anything else so far. The only "challenge" you'll get is obviously if you stand there trying to counter 20 Uruks surrounding you without trying to Spacebar (dodge) your way out of there. But that has nothing to do with "it's challenging because the enemies are actually intelligent".

It's "challenging" because, instead of actual A.I. the enemies hit hard enough (simple "difficulty" mechanic, no A.I. needed) and/or the captains/warchiefs are immune to certain types of attacks. If a captain is immune to long range attacks (bow), that doesn't represent a real challenge, he's tougher not because he's climbing ladders and taking cover, or trying to hide in bushes when things go bad for him, or because he destroyed Caragor cages himself to let them loose on you to create a distraction to his advantage... nope, he's "tougher" because he can take 6 Elf-shots and nothing happens. Now, obviously, if we could kill them all by just sniping them from afar all the time it'd be even easier, I get that. It just feels cheap at times, even if I understand why it is the way it is.

Anyways, that's about A.I. and the game's difficulty, but there's something else that irks me now...

The frequency of enemy spawning. Not the fact that they spawn at all, I mean I don't want to end up with a completely emptied map filled with cadavers. Just the speed at which enemies spawn, and additionally the distance-from-Talion spawning. I don't think that it is an exaggeration to say that other than gathering intel by "interrogating" enemies there's basically no point in actually killing them (unless it's absolutely necessary). I'm saying this because the one individual or the one group of "trash" mobs that you just killed will be right back in about 15 seconds (and that's also probably not an exaggeration either, most enemies come back under a minute). And, you don't even have to leave the area for it to be filled up again, Orcs and Uruks just... come back. They either spawn right back at their usual idling posts 30 meters away, or a "patrol" that magically happens to pass by 20 seconds later will stop at the "empty" spot and occupy it anew. Rinse and repeat, you can actually watch it as it occurs while perched on top of a ruin or something along the lines.

At least in FarCry 2 you had to leave outposts' immediate surroundings for a patrol to stop by and re-occupy it. I don't know if it was completely intentional to be as it is (in Shadow of Mordor) but I sure hope that they're open to suggestions for some readjustments, because for me it's just pushing on the ridiculousness level. Yes, I want respawning, but no I don't exactly want it to happen in 15 seconds nor do I want it to happen in front of me, let me leave the area and give some plausibility to the scenario, let a patrol spawn 300 meters away instead of 20, and let them walk to the stronghold I just "cleared", so that it takes them at least two or three minutes for them to get there.

Am I the only one taking it like this concerning respawning? Oh well...

I do have complaints yeah, certainly not a perfect game (which game is?), but generally-speaking I do honestly enjoy it. I would give it a solid 7.5 / 10, so far anyway (6 hours in my current game at this point).
 
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cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
In the 45 minutes I played before work I saw some very unexpected respawning - it was like the guys I just killed just woke up and started killing me again. I didn't like that.
 

CottonRabbit

Golden Member
Apr 28, 2005
1,026
0
0
In the 45 minutes I played before work I saw some very unexpected respawning - it was like the guys I just killed just woke up and started killing me again. I didn't like that.

You have to use a finisher move on captains to kill them permanently. Otherwise wise they wake up again. This is a way to make a nemesis without dying to them.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
You have to use a finisher move on captains to kill them permanently. Otherwise wise they wake up again. This is a way to make a nemesis without dying to them.

This makes sense. I was wondering what others were talking about because mine DIED. The captains I've went up against and killed were replaced by underlings that had later killed me. Kind of cool to see them go up the ranks
 

Fire&Blood

Platinum Member
Jan 13, 2009
2,331
16
81
As I suspected, the 6GB VRAM panic was premature. One would think people would have learned the "PC requirement" lesson a while ago or at least recently with Watch Dogs.

This lowly PC of mine (rig in the sig), runs the game, with the texture pack installed and enabled at maxed out setting (only motion blur is off) @1440p

Now, the game is still very playable like that but the average FPS is too low for me is so I turn a few things down to climb back to high 40's.

If my rig can render it very playable maxed @1440p and smooth with a few options turned down, most of the rigs I see on forums can render it buttery smooth with no compromises at any resolution.
Here is a few screenshot for infidels:







 

SlitheryDee

Lifer
Feb 2, 2005
17,252
19
81
Just FYI, it's the Batman: Arkham critical system. The timing requirement is actually incredibly loose - you've got a good quarter of a second. The trick is that you can only click attack once.

Yeah, I starting to get it now. Really all you have to concentrate on at all is hitting attack once and only once. Pretty much as long as you're hitting it soon enough to chain the attacks together at all you're also hitting it soon enough to get a crit as well.
 

BlueWeasel

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
15,940
474
126
As I suspected, the 6GB VRAM panic was premature. One would think people would have learned the "PC requirement" lesson a while ago or at least recently with Watch Dogs.

This lowly PC of mine (rig in the sig), runs the game, with the texture pack installed and enabled at maxed out setting (only motion blur is off) @1440p

Now, the game is still very playable like that but the average FPS is too low for me is so I turn a few things down to climb back to high 40's.

If my rig can render it very playable maxed @1440p and smooth with a few options turned down, most of the rigs I see on forums can render it buttery smooth with no compromises at any resolution.

Thanks for that. I'm running a 2500K at 4.7 with a 7950. Good to know it will run good at 1080p.
 

richierich1212

Platinum Member
Jul 5, 2002
2,741
360
126
I played a few hours this morning and I like the different characters as well as the storyline. It does get kind of repetitive fighting Uruk after Uruk in the beginning though. I swear I killed a Captain 3 times and he still comes back for more, taunting and wearing bandages over his head. I haven't executed him because I kept getting bumrushed, haha. Anyways, I like the game so far. Running Ultra settings except Occlusion and Textures (High) with my 3570K @ 4.3GHz + 280X @ 1440p. Game runs smoooooth.
 
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Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
106
OK so I rescind my comments about the game being too easy. I died a few times when trying to take out the same captain, and he has now grown so powerful (power 20) that encountering him now basically means I have to run or die. Particularly as his 4 cronies (who are power 15-18) tend to show up whenever I fight him now and he has a poison weapon that takes 1/2 my health with one swipe and eats another 1/4 in poison damage. Going to spend some time trying to kill his cronies before taking him on again.

Also - to those just getting a chance to play I encourage you to play a bunch of the story missions early on before trying to take out too many captains and/or a warchief. Doing too much too early can make the game incredibly difficult as I am finding out now. That said, it will be quite satisfying when I finally manage to kill that captain.
 

dmoney1980

Platinum Member
Jan 17, 2008
2,471
38
91
I had a pretty funny rundown last night. I targeted one of the captains and spotted him. I started to stealth kill some of his boys before going after him. I gave him a beat down so he started to run and I chased after. During the chase, I ran into 2 new captains that called me out, which resulted in a huge rat chase where I was running after him with 2 captains and about 20 orcs on my tail. To make it interesting, 3 caragors came out of nowhere to herd some of the orcs on my tail.

In the end, I cornered the fleeing captain and took care of him, but it sure was an entertaining journey. This game is fun!
 

escrow4

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2013
3,339
122
106
This game is hilarious. You basically become a near unstoppable killing machine. I wandered into a stronghold which set off a war me against 25+ or so orcs then 2 captains show up, then I run to a legend upgrade for a sword which is a battle me against 50 orcs (BECAUSE, that's why), then I kill another half dozen, then those captains eventually put me down after I run into them again. One of them kills me AGAIN (just). Seriously hilarious. Its just non stop stabbing and decapitation. Sadly no dismemberment, but meh. I actually find looking for the lore as interesting.

Butter smooth on this 4770 non K with a 780 Ti GHz and 16GB RAM. Maxed out at 1200p with textures on High. Rock solid 60FPS+.
 
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