Might be in for a battle with my home builder...looking for advice...

[leeland]

OK so we had part of our roof cap come up on a recent storm. Home is under warranty so I called and he said he would send someone out to check it out.

I get home and there are two gents up on the roof and the FIRST thing both say to me is wow there are problems up there...

They drag me up on the roof and show me spots all over (just on the garage) where:
Nail heads are exposed...
Where the shingle line drifts up and is not in line with other shingles....
Where shingles don't come together so there is a 1/4 in gap.

The roof cap shingles weren't held on with anything other than a roofing name vs. a 3 inch nail.

I immediately called the builder who let it go to VM as I find out he is actually talking to the guy fixing the roof.

and I can HEAR the guy telling him quietly there are issues...etc...

builder calls back shortly there after...and asks what is up.

I tell him the above...and he says he wasn't aware of that and that the guy said it was the roof caps...and nothing else was mentioned...

I reiterate the above and he says he will fix it...and I say...

'I was just told the only way to fix all of that is to tear it off and put on a new one.'

He doesn't say anything and says he will get back to me...

Is it gonna be on line donkey kong?

If this gets into a pissing match I think my only play is to get a second opinion from a third party for reference or proof...to so the validity of the claim...

Thoughts or opinions are appreciated.

Lee

 

[Tim]

Doesn't matter, don't you know the Rapture is happening tomorrow!?

 

[leeland]

oh right right right...missed that on my calender

 

[KLin]

doesn't matter, don't you know the rapture is happening tomorrow!?

everyone doesn't know this?!?!

 

[boomerang]

You're in for a pissing match that's probably for sure.

I like your idea of a third party.

I'm going to play devil's advocate so don't get all twisted up...

Nail heads are exposed...
Not necessarily a problem. The last in the series of cap shingles is held on with nail heads exposed. My own roofline is such that there is leading edge flashing that is held on by nails with heads exposed. Nary a leak. Is this preferable? No. Is it a problem? Not necessarily.

Where the shingle line drifts up and is not in line with other shingles....
This is really an aesthetic problem unless the exposure is too great. Had you noticed it from the ground? This may not be worth worrying about.

Where shingles don't come together so there is a 1/4 in gap.
My builder did this as well as increasing the exposure. He did it to save a few bucks on materials. The original roof lasted 18 years before I replaced it. The shingles were 25 year shingles and would have lasted longer. I replaced the roof so as not to have to do in under duress - a leaking roof. I was actually standing there when he hollered up to the guys on the roof, "spread 'em out". I was too naive at the time to follow what he was saying.

I think your only real problem is the cap shingles and that can be easily remedied. However, I do understand your concern - truly. My advice would be to pick the battle or battles that will give you the best return. Fighting with builders is a PITA.

If the issues are isolated solely to the garage, I'd say there's a good chance the builder will do right by you and replace the shingles on that portion.

 

[leeland]

Here is my take on the situation...

I am trying at the moment to be as objective and unbiased as possible and see the situation for what it is...and try to make a rational decision...

We have had two issues in the past 3 months....2 in the same spot
The roof caps all need to be replaced because they decided to use rail nails (1 inch) vs. the appropriate 2.5 - 3 inch nails to hold the caps.
Exposed wood wood visible from the ground where the roof edges come together.
Roof valleys have portions where the shingles were cut through when they were shaping the other shingles.
Missing weather proofing on at least 1 vent pipe.
exposed nail heads (maybe not the worst thing).


I am not a roof guy so I am trying to rely on two people I have never met but they seemed pretty genuine.

Once the contractor showed the mood obviously changed and he had no real answer outside of they will fix it. I don't try to be a dumb ass and I got the impression he was trying to minimize damage to the situation.

I also found it ODD that he wanted to be present when they measured for the fix up process.

I know for a fact that there was the convo on the top of the roof that was for their ears only.


I feel like my only recourse at the moment is to try to take as many pictures as I can and get a 3rd party involved to get a recommendation or observation.

I hate having conflict so I am pretty sure that this is going to end poorly once I say I want a second opinion (no charge to him) to evaluate the roof and what should be done.

A loose quote by the helpers said it would be about 8,000 - 10,000 grand...

SO...when Mr. Contractor says the little fix is going to put him out about 1,500 he is trying to minimize the damage...

 

[thereds]

pics of house? and then pics of damage?

 

[paperfist]

Don't let the guy leave until he fixes everything. Once he's off site it's going to be cat and mouse phone calls until the warranty expires and then you're SoL.

 

[marvdmartian]

Agree with paperfist. You've got a warranty, the builder has insurance and is bonded, so his only weapon is to try to make you wait until it's too late. If he won't fix it right voluntarily, you might mention a lawsuit that might have to happen. He knows he's in the wrong, he got caught, and now he doesn't want to fix it. Too friggin' bad.

 

[Bignate603]

If he gives you problems get an inspection on your own dime and get the inspector's report in writing. It will cost you a little bit of money but getting it fixed right will save you a huge amount of money in the long run. If the contractor doesn't show you how he's going to fix every single thing on the inspector's report you might need to take him to court over it.

 

[leeland]

pics of house? and then pics of damage?

It was raining yesterday, but I hope to get up there today and take some pictures.

I will post them if I get them today

 

[BoomerD]

It might be a good idea to get a professional roofing company and/or home inspector to come take a look at the roof. It may cost a bit for them to do a proper inspection, but it will probably be worth it to you in your fight.

 

[DrPizza]

If you know who the manufacturer of the shingles is, it would probably be worth the bother to contact the manufacturer (the info would probably be on their website) concerning the proper installation of the shingles, and whether or not they were installed out of spec. (the gaps, increased exposure, etc.)

When companies cut corners, stretch materials, etc., all they're doing is making extra money at the buyer's expense. Because, you're the one who would be paying the extra money sooner for repairs. If more buyers carefully inspected things like that and made the builder pay for that mistake, then fewer builders would be willing to cut such corners. Get caught once, and that makes up for the savings you've realized over 10 homes.

 

[JimW1949]

I am thinking you may have to go to small claims court before this gets settled. I really don't understand why the roofers did not do the job correctly. Doing sub-standard work is not a good idea, it will only come back to haunt you.

 

[AlienCraft]

If he gives you anything but action to rectify the situation, lawyer up and start the proceedings. Consult your State's Contractor Licensing bureau and file a complaint.
You may want to have a couple of reputable roofing contractors come out and give you an estimate to throw in his face when he starts short-cutting the job again.
And he will, because he's already spent the money he made on your house.

 

[JimW1949]

To be quite honest, if it were me I don't think I would trust the same contractor to do the job correctly. If the job was botched the first time to save money, then you already know the contractor is crooked and doesn't care if the job is sub-standard. That being the case, why would you think the contractor would pay more to have the job done correctly the second time around?

 

[Humpy]

If you know who the manufacturer of the shingles is, it would probably be worth the bother to contact the manufacturer (the info would probably be on their website) concerning the proper installation of the shingles, and whether or not they were installed out of spec. (the gaps, increased exposure, etc.)

Good idea. Maybe a manufactures rep will come out and have a look if asked nicely.

Also get a copy of the manufactures install guide and have an expert document everything that was not done exactly as described by the guide. Document every nail that is crooked, over, or under driven, every questionable flashing detail, any missing dabs of tar over exposed nails or under ridge shingles, nailing patterns, etc.

There are very few roofers these days who actually have read and understand specific installation guides and I would pretty much guarantee that the roof being discussed was done by a hack. It's easy to prove it also.

A good inspector will be able to find a hundred things that won't meet spec with this roof. Use this info to force the issue and get a complete new roof. In court if necessary. Make the contractor prove that his roofing subcontractor is 100% qualified to install to spec.

A huge stink will have to be raised to get the issue resolved correctly.

 

[leeland]

I had a family friend who runs a roofing company stop out the other day in-between rain storms and we did a walk through on the roof. Outside of the end caps and the valleys he didn't think there was anything to be concerned about.

There were some 'visual' portions that he didn't agree with but didn't feel it would hurt the functionality of the roof.

The contractor did hire another sub contractor (roofing company) to do the repairs on the end caps and also the valleys where they pointed out issues.

Hopefully in the next couple of weeks we will have it resolved.

Thanks for all the comments...

Lee