Military Suicide Rate

[CaptnKirk]

Over 6,200 in the year 2005 alone - that's over 120 a week

<CLIP>
So CBS News did an investigation - asking all 50 states for their suicide data, based on death records,
for veterans and non-veterans, dating back to 1995.
Forty-five states sent what turned out to be a mountain of information.

And what it revealed was stunning.

In 2005, for example, in just those 45 states, there were at least 6,256 suicides
among those who served in the armed forces.
That?s 120 each and every week, in just one year.

Since the inception of the 'War on Terrer' in 2001, we have lost around 4,200 troops in Afghanistan and Iraq combined.
And 2,000 more by their own hand in one year alone.
You know that the 2006 totals are not in yet, and 2007 is still adding up - we won't be told for a couple more years.


This has to be the tip of the iceberg when it comes to our Government failing the troops that need help the most.

I'm wondering how the 'regular suspects' are going to point the finger elsewhwere, and how can they blame Clinton?
You know they will try.

Anyone?

 

[jpeyton]

This, coupled with the new report about the true cost of the war (already into the trillions, and will cost trillions more over the next decade)...it's Christmas in November for the Democrats.

Iraq is the Scarlet Letter on the back of every Republican candidate in the 2008 election.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Not to say it's a lie, but this number is so high I have trouble believing it.....

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Not to say it's a lie, but this number is so high I have trouble believing it.....

That's what I thought when I heard the numbers, but they say that they can back them up.

Jesus, this is a mess.
Do you think that they have been hiding that information to deceive the citizens?

The GOP wants the cost data retracted, as it is so damaging to them

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
This, coupled with the new report about the true cost of the war (already into the trillions, and will cost trillions more over the next decade)...it's Christmas in November for the Democrats.

Iraq is the Scarlet Letter on the back of every Republican candidate in the 2008 election.

I wouldn't say "every."

Paul didn't even vote for the war, unlike the person leading the Democrats in current polls.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Not to say it's a lie, but this number is so high I have trouble believing it.....

That's what I thought when I heard the numbers, but they say that they can back them up.

Jesus, this is a mess.
Do you think that they have been hiding that information to deceive the citizens?

No doubt about it. I still remember how Bush administration forbid release of photos depicting a plane full of coffins returning to home because they argued soldiers must be buried with dignity.

In reality they didn't want those photos released because it would influence public opinion about the war.

I haven't followed that story for a long time, did they ever release those photos?

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
This, coupled with the new report about the true cost of the war (already into the trillions, and will cost trillions more over the next decade)...it's Christmas in November for the Democrats.

Iraq is the Scarlet Letter on the back of every Republican candidate in the 2008 election.

Some Americans are more concerned with supporting our troops and accomplishing the mission, rather than playing petty partisan politics.

What you see as a "Scarlet Letter" may turn out to be a winning hand.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Over 6,200 in the year 2005 alone - that's over 120 a week

<CLIP>
So CBS News did an investigation - asking all 50 states for their suicide data, based on death records,
for veterans and non-veterans, dating back to 1995.
Forty-five states sent what turned out to be a mountain of information.

And what it revealed was stunning.

In 2005, for example, in just those 45 states, there were at least 6,256 suicides
among those who served in the armed forces.
That?s 120 each and every week, in just one year.

Since the inception of the 'War on Terrer' in 2001, we have lost around 4,200 troops in Afghanistan and Iraq combined.
And 2,000 more by their own hand in one year alone.
You know that the 2006 totals are not in yet, and 2007 is still adding up - we won't be told for a couple more years.


This has to be the tip of the iceberg when it comes to our Government failing the troops that need help the most.

I'm wondering how the 'regular suspects' are going to point the finger elsewhwere, and how can they blame Clinton?
You know they will try.

Anyone?

The number of 6,256 suicides in 45 states at a rate of 20.8 per 100,000 vets would indicate a vet population of 30,076,923 vets in those 45 states.

In 2005, there were 24.5 million vets in us link

Only a small fraction of these vets, and the ones that committed suicide have served in the current fronts.


If you want to see some really shocking stats, look at our prison and jail suicide stats.

I am sure that is Bush's fault also.

 

[Ozoned]

Do you think that they have been hiding that information to deceive the citizens?

The article would lead you to believe that. Saying that no studies have been done that look at all vets.

The The national Institute Of Menatal Health funded a Study that does show data that would indicate an almost double rate of suicide among ALL vets. Also, they have funded and are currently funding many studies with different statistical criteria.

VA has also recently opened a Suicide prevention hotline for vets

 

[dahunan]

Current duty must have a hard time being responsible for a pre-emptive attack that has caused at least 50,000 deaths to people who never attacked America

 

[Stoneburner]

The military is apparently a heathen organization.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Some Americans are more concerned with supporting our troops and accomplishing the mission, rather than playing petty partisan politics.

What you see as a "Scarlet Letter" may turn out to be a winning hand.

Bwahahahahahahahaha

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Maybe some, but very few. Americans are more concerned with gas prices than accomplishing the mission. They care far more about the economy than Bush's boogeymen.

 

[daveshel]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Some Americans are more concerned with supporting our troops and accomplishing the mission, rather than playing petty partisan politics.

Sling that empty slogan about one more time, it almost means something.

So, you've got a soldier, maybe just out of high school, who joins up believing that the war effort is for the good of the country. It isn't much of a stretch that eventually s/he wakes up to see that the reality is that the war effort is not good for anybody except a few profiteering corporations and the partisan politics of the men who started it. Could this be a disillusioning moment in a young life??? DOH!

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: jpeyton
This, coupled with the new report about the true cost of the war (already into the trillions, and will cost trillions more over the next decade)...it's Christmas in November for the Democrats.

Iraq is the Scarlet Letter on the back of every Republican candidate in the 2008 election.

Some Americans are more concerned with supporting our troops and accomplishing the mission, rather than playing petty partisan politics.

What you see as a "Scarlet Letter" may turn out to be a winning hand.

Well if "the mission" is to purposefully heap misery on the ragheads, exploit and encourage sectarian strife, bribe and strengthen local warlords/criminals/druglords/terrorists, support tin pot dictators, commit assorted war crimes, push through big oil/corporate regional interests as well as US geostrategic aims (military and political) through illegal invasions and occupations of defenseless nations, profiteer on the war etc and so on in that vein... I'd say "the mission" is progressing admirably. Now who on earth could possibly be so petty as to object to the above "mission"?

 

[Moonbeam]

Soldiers die from war because war makes them feel what they have repressed. Because they are totally psychologically unaware of their own self hate when they are forced to feel it they kill themselves. We have suppressed feelings that would have killed us to continue to feel as children and buried them deeply. To learn to feel needs to be voluntary and managed with skill. One needs to know first that one hates oneself and is going to find that out and secondly that all those feelings are lies, not the real truth as we were made to believe. One needs to know that to go insane with the truth of what we feel is not a fatal flaw or insanity at all, but the door to a return to real mental health. The soldier does not know that down is up so when he starts to sink he panics and kills himself. Our delusions are that we are good and our feelings say we're bad. Cognitive dissonance can kill.

You support the death of all who kill themselves in this way by playing the game that you yourself, also, are not sick. You maintain the illusion that repression is normal and good and feeling dangerous and sick. You maintain the schism in the soldier, that when broken, can kill him. Your denial is the reason the world is insane.

Remember, you had to shut down as a child or you would have died. Your guild is an illusion. You are and always were perfect.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: jpeyton
This, coupled with the new report about the true cost of the war (already into the trillions, and will cost trillions more over the next decade)...it's Christmas in November for the Democrats.

Iraq is the Scarlet Letter on the back of every Republican candidate in the 2008 election.

Some Americans are more concerned with supporting our troops and accomplishing the mission, rather than playing petty partisan politics.

What you see as a "Scarlet Letter" may turn out to be a winning hand.

This is all I can answer to your statement...

 

[yobarman]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: jpeyton
This, coupled with the new report about the true cost of the war (already into the trillions, and will cost trillions more over the next decade)...it's Christmas in November for the Democrats.

Iraq is the Scarlet Letter on the back of every Republican candidate in the 2008 election.

Some Americans are more concerned with supporting our troops and accomplishing the mission, rather than playing petty partisan politics.

What you see as a "Scarlet Letter" may turn out to be a winning hand.

The majority of America wants out. supporting the troops would be bringing them home, and "petty partisan politics" is EXACTLY what you're doing when you bust out the 'support the troops and accomplish the mission' BS

 

[piasabird]

So my first question would be what is the normal sucide rate in the USA as a nation and what was the suicide rate for the 10 years before the war?

This is the kind of information one has to have to make any kind of rational interpretation of the data. The article did not give enough specifics. It only used the information that made their point of view valid. 2200 suicides over 10 years is hard to understand. But that is only 220 per year out of how many people? 1,000,000 troops? or how many exactly. They did not even tell you how many military personnel are currently on active duty.

I would guess that there are larger problems with post dramatic stress for soldiers who leave the military after a war. For every suicide I would think that there are 10 or 100 people in mental trouble that are getting help with their problems. Soldiers were recently studied as they returned from the war. When they returned they were given a questionaire and most soldiers did not have issues they felt they needed to report. However, after 6 months they were given another questionaire and many people developed the problems they had long after returning from battle.

When you are in the military you have a lot of contact with other military people and you tend to try to keep each other spirits up. It is easy to talk because you all understand what each other are going through. However, as a soldier returns to civilian life, you lose that safety net and there are no longer any Army buddies left to talk to and you become isolated. Things like this are hard to understand.

I left the military because I felt it was not for me.

 

[dahunan]

They support the troops by voting for warmongers who in turn send more troops to die without justification

 

[bbdub333]

This is a worthless thread. This study doesn't show anything that wasn't already know, but the OP tries to blame it on Bush and the current war in Iraq.

How about this?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10...hington/31suicide.html

Paradoxically, those who had post-traumatic stress symptoms as well as depression were at significantly lower risk of suicide than those without trauma symptoms, the study found. Veterans being treated for both conditions were 20 percent less likely to commit suicide than those who were treated for depression alone. People suffering from two conditions are usually considered to be at higher risk for harm than those with one.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19187272/

The study tracked 320,890 U.S. men, about a third of whom served in the U.S. military between 1917 and 1994. The rest had no military background.
Story continues below ?advertisement

Those with military service committed suicide at a rate 2.13 times higher than the other men, but did not have a higher risk of dying from disease, accidental causes or murder, the study found.

So it's been the same since the beginning of the 20th century? Gee, look at that.

Stop trying to spin this into something it isn't.

I'm wondering how the 'regular suspects' are going to point the finger elsewhwere, and how can they blame Clinton?
You know they will try.

How about blaming the nature of military service? Stop being such a dolt.

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Soldiers die from war because war makes them feel what they have repressed. Because they are totally psychologically unaware of their own self hate when they are forced to feel it they kill themselves. We have suppressed feelings that would have killed us to continue to feel as children and buried them deeply. To learn to feel needs to be voluntary and managed with skill. One needs to know first that one hates oneself and is going to find that out and secondly that all those feelings are lies, not the real truth as we were made to believe. One needs to know that to go insane with the truth of what we feel is not a fatal flaw or insanity at all, but the door to a return to real mental health. The soldier does not know that down is up so when he starts to sink he panics and kills himself. Our delusions are that we are good and our feelings say we're bad. Cognitive dissonance can kill.

You support the death of all who kill themselves in this way by playing the game that you yourself, also, are not sick. You maintain the illusion that repression is normal and good and feeling dangerous and sick. You maintain the schism in the soldier, that when broken, can kill him. Your denial is the reason the world is insane.

Remember, you had to shut down as a child or you would have died. Your guild is an illusion. You are and always were perfect.

Do you really believe this inane "self-hate" philosophy that you are always spewing or are you just being "sarcastic" as the disclaimer in your signiture alludes to? Because if you believe that "one hates oneself" applies to everyone, you certainly have a myopic world view.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Soldiers die from war because war makes them feel what they have repressed. Because they are totally psychologically unaware of their own self hate when they are forced to feel it they kill themselves. We have suppressed feelings that would have killed us to continue to feel as children and buried them deeply. To learn to feel needs to be voluntary and managed with skill. One needs to know first that one hates oneself and is going to find that out and secondly that all those feelings are lies, not the real truth as we were made to believe. One needs to know that to go insane with the truth of what we feel is not a fatal flaw or insanity at all, but the door to a return to real mental health. The soldier does not know that down is up so when he starts to sink he panics and kills himself. Our delusions are that we are good and our feelings say we're bad. Cognitive dissonance can kill.

You support the death of all who kill themselves in this way by playing the game that you yourself, also, are not sick. You maintain the illusion that repression is normal and good and feeling dangerous and sick. You maintain the schism in the soldier, that when broken, can kill him. Your denial is the reason the world is insane.

Remember, you had to shut down as a child or you would have died. Your guild is an illusion. You are and always were perfect.

Do you really believe this inane "self-hate" philosophy that you are always spewing or are you just being "sarcastic" as the disclaimer in your signiture alludes to? Because if you believe that "one hates oneself" applies to everyone, you certainly have a myopic world view.

I have the myopic view that we all live under the sky. I know that you would have to experience insanity to know what I know and I know that you are afraid. You don't know how you feel. Sorry, but calling me insane makes me laugh. Stay on your shore and stay away from the deep. Something might drag you under.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Soldiers die from war because war makes them feel what they have repressed.

Funny, and here I was thinking it was due to bullets and explosions.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: bbdub333
This is a worthless thread. This study doesn't show anything that wasn't already know, but the OP tries to blame it on Bush and the current war in Iraq.

How about this?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10...hington/31suicide.html

Paradoxically, those who had post-traumatic stress symptoms as well as depression were at significantly lower risk of suicide than those without trauma symptoms, the study found. Veterans being treated for both conditions were 20 percent less likely to commit suicide than those who were treated for depression alone. People suffering from two conditions are usually considered to be at higher risk for harm than those with one.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19187272/

The study tracked 320,890 U.S. men, about a third of whom served in the U.S. military between 1917 and 1994. The rest had no military background.
Story continues below ?advertisement

Those with military service committed suicide at a rate 2.13 times higher than the other men, but did not have a higher risk of dying from disease, accidental causes or murder, the study found.

So it's been the same since the beginning of the 20th century? Gee, look at that.

Stop trying to spin this into something it isn't.

I'm wondering how the 'regular suspects' are going to point the finger elsewhwere, and how can they blame Clinton?
You know they will try.

How about blaming the nature of military service? Stop being such a dolt.

Yes, Bush is making your statistics more favorable for the military members..

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: jpeyton
This, coupled with the new report about the true cost of the war (already into the trillions, and will cost trillions more over the next decade)...it's Christmas in November for the Democrats.

Iraq is the Scarlet Letter on the back of every Republican candidate in the 2008 election.

Some Americans are more concerned with supporting our troops and accomplishing the mission, rather than playing petty partisan politics.

What you see as a "Scarlet Letter" may turn out to be a winning hand.

I came in a little late on this discussion. From the news articles I've been reading, it sounds like American war veterans have disproportionately high rates of mental illness, homelessness and joblessness, and untreated and under-treated medical conditions, and are constantly fighting red tape to get their horrible war injuries defined as "75% disabling" rather than "40% disabling" in order to pry just a few more dollars a month from their ungenerous government administrators. In short, the government's real response to veterans seems to be "just deal with it."

So I'd really, really like to know what the Bush administration is doing to "support our troops," other than flapping their collective gums repeating that slogan.