Millennials on Their Student Loan Dept: Out of Sight, Out of Mind.

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Oct 30, 2004
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I blame much of this on the parents and our education system that encourages every kid to attend college.

Additionally - blame the Lender and our nation's Bankruptcy laws. When you loan money, you are taking a risk that the loan will not get paid back and could get discharged in bankruptcy.

Perhaps entities (the federal government and private banks) that issue student loans need to be more careful before just issuing loans willy-nilly like.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
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So more Americans will start taking the bus or move somewhere that a car isn't required. Not the end of the world.

This is a very sad outlook. You are effectively "okay" with America regressing. Debt on new workers is large now, as we've discussed, but the worrisome part is that there is no reason to believe it won't stop increasing at a rate far higher than inflation. This generation is $30k average debt out of school while the next may be $50k then $70k. Where does it end? Education costs need to come down. I'm not necessarily advocating for more government support, I'm advocating for less student cost. IMO, this can best be realized by a reshaping of the way a degree is earned and expectations of the college experience.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
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Is some somebody with a libarts degree really all that educated? Enough so that society is benefitted massively and they contribute all that much more?

No in my mind and I am a big supporter of education.

Getting a libarts degree can't fix stupid. World needs ditch diggers

The most dangerous type of person is a stupid person who thinks they are educated. They speak the language of stupid to other stupid people but come from a position of authority. D:
 

Harrod

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2010
1,900
21
81
Is some somebody with a libarts degree really all that educated? Enough so that society is benefitted massively and they contribute all that much more?

No in my mind and I am a big supporter of education.

Getting a libarts degree can't fix stupid. World needs ditch diggers

I heard someone say that at a party I was at around 8 years ago, I then asked them what they did for a living and they told me that they were a bank teller or some crap like that, but still insisted that a liberal arts degree was better than a STEM degree.

Personally I think it's all about the drive that a person has, I know some really dumb people that have Electrical Engineering degrees, and I know a guy that has an Aviation degree that is doing very well as a network engineer.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
I heard someone say that at a party I was at around 8 years ago, I then asked them what they did for a living and they told me that they were a bank teller or some crap like that, but still insisted that a liberal arts degree was better than a STEM degree.

Personally I think it's all about the drive that a person has, I know some really dumb people that have Electrical Engineering degrees, and I know a guy that has an Aviation degree that is doing very well as a network engineer.
I agree, it is about drive and intelligence. We shoved all round and square pegs into a round hole and hope that all find round hole jobs. They don't and the education is wasted.

We need a germany style system and put the pegs where they belong.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,578
1,741
126
I agree, it is about drive and intelligence. We shoved all round and square pegs into a round hole and hope that all find round hole jobs. They don't and the education is wasted.

We need a germany style system and put the pegs where they belong.
IMO, the success that we've experienced as a nation over the last 100 years is having a negative effect on our mindset. Think about how immigrants view work compared to many Americans. Immigrants will work 100+ hours a week, because they know that they are very fortunate to be able to be in America where anything is possible. They have that immigrant hustle. It's one of the reasons why they are 3X more likely than native Americans to be financially successful.

Many Americans on the other hand expect to go to college, easily find a job for $50k, do as little work as possible, go on vacations, have retirement, house, 2 cars, etc... Typical stuff of the middle class.

Americans then get jealous when they see a foreigner become financially successful. Like, they should be rich too. My parents were small business owners. We had a summer cafe at the shore in a very wealthy area. They had to give up on hiring locally because all they got were complaints.

"When can we go home."
"Do we really have to work weekends? Holidays?"
"Can I take off today? Why not?"

My mom said enough and hired Romanian college students. They were amazing They would come in 7 days a week, and work 10 hour days. My mom paid very well. $13-15 dollars an hour. Depending on how long you stayed with us. They had hustle and knew the importance of money.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
IMO, the success that we've experienced as a nation over the last 100 years is having a negative effect on our mindset. Think about how immigrants view work compared to many Americans. Immigrants will work 100+ hours a week, because they know that they are very fortunate to be able to be in America where anything is possible. They have that immigrant hustle. It's one of the reasons why they are 3X more likely than native Americans to be financially successful.

Many Americans on the other hand expect to go to college, easily find a job for $50k, do as little work as possible, go on vacations, have retirement, house, 2 cars, etc... Typical stuff of the middle class.

Americans then get jealous when they see a foreigner become financially successful. Like, they should be rich too. My parents were small business owners. We had a summer cafe at the shore in a very wealthy area. They had to give up on hiring locally because all they got were complaints.

"When can we go home."
"Do we really have to work weekends? Holidays?"
"Can I take off today? Why not?"

My mom said enough and hired Romanian college students. They were amazing They would come in 7 days a week, and work 10 hour days. My mom paid very well. $13-15 dollars an hour. Depending on how long you stayed with us. They had hustle and knew the importance of money.
I agree. Part of that is because the government is willing to step in at any point. Also, the labor market is being twisted by illegals. There is a certain hunger that parents and the government have take out of kids. The difference between those with the hunger and those without is palatable.

We are victims of our own success but it doesn't help that
 
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LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Additionally - blame the Lender and our nation's Bankruptcy laws. When you loan money, you are taking a risk that the loan will not get paid back and could get discharged in bankruptcy.

Perhaps entities (the federal government and private banks) that issue student loans need to be more careful before just issuing loans willy-nilly like.
Lending is a two way street. Both parties should take equal responsibility.

Part of the problem is it is very difficult to underwrite an 18yr old with no job, no certain future of graduation or career prospects. #1 predictor of student loan defaults is graduation. Second is career and free cashflow from that career. With those 3 things you can reduce your default rate from 20-30% down to single digits.

That's why this loan scheme is crazy.

We would be far better off paying for 2 years of community college for free.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,112
318
126
The problem with the "two free years of community college" idea is that it only helps those that are thrifty to begin with. Joe Frathouse isn't going to want to attend a community college, he wants to party and shit at a four-year to start, the full "college experience". Susan Ivorytower doesn't want to go to a community college, she wants to double-major in Hellenic Studies and Theater at a fancy expensive private college. If you want to bring costs down and prevent people from saddling themselves with debt, you also have to strongly curtail student loans from the start.

This is a very sad outlook. You are effectively "okay" with America regressing. Debt on new workers is large now, as we've discussed, but the worrisome part is that there is no reason to believe it won't stop increasing at a rate far higher than inflation. This generation is $30k average debt out of school while the next may be $50k then $70k. Where does it end? Education costs need to come down. I'm not necessarily advocating for more government support, I'm advocating for less student cost. IMO, this can best be realized by a reshaping of the way a degree is earned and expectations of the college experience.

Is American progress defined by consumption? I personally enjoy having a car and living in the suburbs, and when I finally get my PhD and leave mommy's basement with all of my saved rent money, I'm OK with paying more for the privilege of not living in the city and taking a bus. I realize it's a luxury.

The most immediate step to take is to simply stop diploma mills. They provide inferior degrees to people that couldn't even make it into a low-tier state college, and at a much higher cost. I agree with changing American perspectives on what high school graduation should mean; college is not the only way to be successful in life, and for people that are clearly not inclined towards academics (whether it's lack of ability or lack of interest), it's unethical to encourage them to drop $$$$$$$ on a degree that will never pay off.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,578
1,741
126
I agree. Part of that is because the government is willing to step in at any point. Also, the labor market is being twisted by illegals. There is a certain hunger that parents and the government have take out of kids. The difference between those with the hunger and those without is palatable.

We are victims of our own success but it doesn't help that
I'm a firm believer that being comfortable is one of the reasons why many young people are doing so poorly today. How do you get motivated when you spend the majority of your day on a nice comfy couch binging on Netflix? Why should you even strive for a better life when you're still living at home at 30? You have free rent, an Xbox 1, huge flat screen TV, a car, and you have food whenever you're hungry. No wonder many young people are unmotivated today.

Compare that to an immigrant who has no choice but to bust his ass. He's sending half his pay home so mom can have food. He doesn't know anyone. Probably the city he lives in is undesirable. He's working 80+ hours a week. Can't speak English well. He has no choice but to make it. That's the reality that he's faced with daily.

It's one of the reasons why I cancelled Netflix and stopped playing video games. I noticed that I was spending too many hours sitting on my ass. I was comfortable. There is nothing wrong with watching TV or playing video games. In my case I want more, so they had to go.

This is also why I taught in Asia for 2 years. I wanted to put myself in unfamiliar surroundings. I'm glad I took the chance. I loved the experience. Someone once said that life begins at the end of our comfort zone. I agree 100% with that statement.
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
Came across this lady who moved from South Africa. Now works in a field where she can see how much student and other kinds of debt people have. She was absolutely astonished and incredulous at the amount of student debt people have here in America, and also the time they have had the debt. She was saying there is nothing like that in South Africa.
 

thecoolnessrune

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
9,673
580
126
Came across this lady who moved from South Africa. Now works in a field where she can see how much student and other kinds of debt people have. She was absolutely astonished and incredulous at the amount of student debt people have here in America, and also the time they have had the debt. She was saying there is nothing like that in South Africa.

Nearly half of the population of South Africa lives below their poverty line. It's definitely not surprising that when nearly half of your population lives below the poverty line, and your government continues to lack political stability, alongside lack of easy access to borrowing sources, that yeah, you're not going to see a whole bunch of people taking out loans for education.
 
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