Mineral Oil PC - 4/7/2010 Houston, we have liftoff!! *56K Warning*

[legoman666]

Oh the irony of Half Life behind your valve. Don't know if that was intentional or not!

Next thing is why use plastic tubing/fittings at all? You have a proper ball valve. Just get flare fittings and break out a flaring tool. If you've never done this practice up on scraps first. I guarantee you will never have a leak again!

I had never heard of them prior to this post! I just Googled them, looks like they take up too much space. Most of my fittings are pretty tight: See this pic here:

Of course having 100% solid fittings and a suitable vessel is not going to prepare for degradation of onboard components such as the rubber of the caps. The board may need to be conformally coated - a similar prep that hardcore oc junkies apply before mounting LN2 pots and such.

I think I'm going to replace them caps if needed. I'm a EE so I have access to a LCR meter at school. I'm going to measure the capacitance of a bunch of my caps so I can purchase new ones because I have no idea what the hell the codes on the top of the caps mean. This is assuming they have the rubber base at all. The rubber base does not seem to be a definite; my old mobo had them, but the sound card, graphics cards and the PSU did not. I'm going to desolder 1 or 2 first and take a look before I place the order.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Rubycon]

Haha you should see some of the equipment we have if you want tight! That would be cakework for flared fittings!

There's another person (puget sound?) that did an aquarium filled with mineral oil that ran for many months and never had a problem with attack on parts. Didn't you say your oil came from an industrial supplier? Have an MSDS by chance? Something used as "horse laxative" is probably safer. (unless you drink it haha!)

 

[legoman666]

Haha you should see some of the equipment we have if you want tight! That would be cakework for flared fittings!

There's another person (puget sound?) that did an aquarium filled with mineral oil that ran for many months and never had a problem with attack on parts. Didn't you say your oil came from an industrial supplier? Have an MSDS by chance? Something used as "horse laxative" is probably safer. (unless you drink it haha!)

Really? Some of fittings are so tight that they actually touch.

I came across Puget's build when I was researching mine. In fact, their build was part of what inspired me to do this in the first place!

As for the type of oil, I am using Shell Diala AX: MSDS. It's mostly mineral oil with some flame retardants I think.

Shell DIALA AX has all the same great characteristics of DIALA A with the addition of an inhibitor to improve oxidation stability for severe use or extended life applications. It meets Type II requirements, and was the first commercially available inhibited electrical insulating oil on the market. DIALA AX retains all the desirable qualities of a new insulating oil over very long periods of time.

 

[Rubycon]

Yes that's for transformers and has stabilizers for higher temp use. It appears to be attacking plastic. I would not use this oil for long term use. Everything wetted by it should be coated. You may want to look into a different oil that's food safe.

Flare fittings can be completely closed where the nuts touch each other! Granted it's hard to get a wrench on them to tighten down but you don't need that kind of torque that a refrigeration line holding 500 psig does either. They make flare nut wrenches for tight quarters.

 

[legoman666]

Yes that's for transformers and has stabilizers for higher temp use. It appears to be attacking plastic. I would not use this oil for long term use. Everything wetted by it should be coated. You may want to look into a different oil that's food safe.

Flare fittings can be completely closed where the nuts touch each other! Granted it's hard to get a wrench on them to tighten down but you don't need that kind of torque that a refrigeration line holding 500 psig does either. They make flare nut wrenches for tight quarters.

Indeed! I work for a power utility and I "acquired" 10 gallons of the stuff for free. It's not the Shell Diala AX specifically that's attacking the plastics, it's the mineral oil itself. Lots of plastics/rubbers are attacked by petroleum oils. What I'm trying to say is that this problem is not unique to mineral oil.

I'll look in to those flare fittings, although it may be too late for this time around. Thanks!

 

[Rubycon]

You know what - your're correct that any mineral oil WILL attack albeit slowly.

There are materials out that won't attack but they have their own set of problems that if not addressed will turn this into a nightmare.

Even with mineral oil there should still be a filter.

 

[HeXen]

lmao..wow, someone needs some sun and some of you have too much time on your hands.

 

[legoman666]

lmao..wow, someone needs some sun and some of you have too much time on your hands.

I'll strive to live up to your example, O Poster of Anandtech.

 

[Rubycon]

How were your temps when this was working?
Understandably they will be higher overall.
However when going from idle to heavy load they should be far more resistant to sudden spikes. Water would be far better as a coolant but we all know what would happen there.

 

[legoman666]

How were your temps when this was working?
Understandably they will be higher overall.
However when going from idle to heavy load they should be far more resistant to sudden spikes. Water would be far better as a coolant but we all know what would happen there.

~85C full load on a heavily overvolted/overclocked Q6600. I didn't put any TIM on because I was afraid it would dissolve into the oil. This go around, I plan on putting some TIM on and sealing it in with silicone.

 

[Rubycon]

What vcore/vtt? What did you load it up with and how long?

Yes TIM helps but be careful with RTV as it releases acetic acid upon curing which is very corrosive to metal parts.

They make non "vinegar" RTVs but I don't think they have the flexibility or chemical resistance.

Other sealants are available such as Goop and Seal All which are extremely resistant to solvent attack but they are hard to remove too!

Before application of ANY sealant removal of ANY oily residue is ESSENTIAL! Especially in the corners of your vessel that are leak prone! An oil scavenger ground up into a power and applied to the area will draw far more oil via wicking than you can dream to sop up with a shop towel. Silicone (RTV) just will NOT adhere to surfaces with oil. When the oil is added it will seep under the newly applied RTV and drip out onto your floor!

 

[Cogman]

85C? Dang, that's toasty, back in the day (Athlon Xp), 70C would crash things!

 

[Rubycon]

85C? Dang, that's toasty, back in the day (Athlon Xp), 70C would crash things!

Yes but those temperatures you were reading were most likely inner socket bead thermistor readings and not off an inner-die diode.

Even still the G0 C2Q can be beat to heck and back. I'll see if I can find a screen shot of one I had that was running Prime95 at 3.6GHz on the stock cooler. Coretemps were 120+C and it ran lockup and crash free for six hours. It meant to be a quick trial and I got called to look at something that turned into nearly an all day ordeal! Chip is still running fine to this day!

Athlons were pretty tough too.
I had an AXIA core 1.2GHz at 1.4GHz with a copper hedgehog heatsink. Unplugged the fan to test and forgot about it. Was running about half an hour (still no problem!) when I smelled something funny. You know it's that smell when you start the heat in the fall. The dust burning off the heat exchanger or coils. Something of the nature. I got up and then realized what happened. I pulled the power cord off the PSU and (foolishly) touched the heat sink! OUCH! I licked my finger and touched it and it sizzled! I plugged the fan in after waiting about five minutes (still too hot to touch) and started it up and went into the bios. CPU temp was showing 94C and dropping quickly with the fan now running. (one of those 60mm Sanyo screamers!) Chip survived that one too!

 

[legoman666]

What vcore/vtt? What did you load it up with and how long?

Yes TIM helps but be careful with RTV as it releases acetic acid upon curing which is very corrosive to metal parts.

1.52V Vcore. Temps were from after hours of 100% load from folding@home on all 4 cores. I had a really bad Q6600, didn't OC for crap.

85C? Dang, that's toasty, back in the day (Athlon Xp), 70C would crash things!

It had no TIM, what do you expect? hehe

Yes but those temperatures you were reading were most likely inner socket bead thermistor readings and not off an inner-die diode.

Even still the G0 C2Q can be beat to heck and back. I'll see if I can find a screen shot of one I had that was running Prime95 at 3.6GHz on the stock cooler. Coretemps were 120+C and it ran lockup and crash free for six hours. It meant to be a quick trial and I got called to look at something that turned into nearly an all day ordeal! Chip is still running fine to this day!

Athlons were pretty tough too.
I had an AXIA core 1.2GHz at 1.4GHz with a copper hedgehog heatsink. Unplugged the fan to test and forgot about it. Was running about half an hour (still no problem!) when I smelled something funny. You know it's that smell when you start the heat in the fall. The dust burning off the heat exchanger or coils. Something of the nature. I got up and then realized what happened. I pulled the power cord off the PSU and (foolishly) touched the heat sink! OUCH! I licked my finger and touched it and it sizzled! I plugged the fan in after waiting about five minutes (still too hot to touch) and started it up and went into the bios. CPU temp was showing 94C and dropping quickly with the fan now running. (one of those 60mm Sanyo screamers!) Chip survived that one too!

Haha, I've done the same thing with a Barton 2500+. I unplugged the fan temporarily and then forgot about it. I tried to play a game a while later and it kept crashing. Took me a bit to figure out what was wrong.

 

[thilanliyan]

I said it before but great job.

 

[Maximilian]

If you had SLI GTX 480's you could use it as a deep fat fryer

 

[Rubycon]

If you had SLI GTX 480's you could use it as a deep fat fryer

Probably would need to pump the oil through a large array of fins outside the box with fans blowing on it just like a transformer.

The cooling capacity of said oil is very good however it runs at temperatures above safe limits of semiconductors. (forced air cooling of oil filled transformers)

Those video cards (480s) put out some wattage but not that much. (coming from a 5970 blowdryer user here)
OTOH a small fryer is about 1200W. Four way SLI SR-2 with dual Xeons at 4.5GHz, 48GB RAM and you're getting close. Of course that setup isn't going to fit in a vessel the size of a Fry Daddy.

I'm still waiting for the first all liquid metal enthusiast built cooling system.

The OP is unique as the entire box is built from scratch. Good work! It's impossible to build something like that and NOT have problems. You learn along the way and build in the improvements into the next versions. NEVER quit!

 

[legoman666]

If you had SLI GTX 480's you could use it as a deep fat fryer

Hmm not a bad idea, but how about, put a quad processor motherboard in there, overclock, and deep fry stuff INSIDE the case.

*CPU temp warning* "Ding fries are done!"

hey bro gj. When fermi comes out you can cut the top off the mineral oil and deep fry stuff

I'll just leave this here

Not a good idea

Probably would need to pump the oil through a large array of fins outside the box with fans blowing on it just like a transformer.

The cooling capacity of said oil is very good however it runs at temperatures above safe limits of semiconductors. (forced air cooling of oil filled transformers)

Those video cards (480s) put out some wattage but not that much. (coming from a 5970 blowdryer user here)
OTOH a small fryer is about 1200W. Four way SLI SR-2 with dual Xeons at 4.5GHz, 48GB RAM and you're getting close. Of course that setup isn't going to fit in a vessel the size of a Fry Daddy.

I'm still waiting for the first all liquid metal enthusiast built cooling system.

The OP is unique as the entire box is built from scratch. Good work! It's impossible to build something like that and NOT have problems. You learn along the way and build in the improvements into the next versions. NEVER quit!

Plus I don't think my components or the case would appreciate being at 450F

I said it before but great job.

Thanks!

 

[WoodButcher]

The OP is unique as the entire box is built from scratch. Good work! It's impossible to build something like that and NOT have problems. You learn along the way and build in the improvements into the next versions. NEVER quit!

I would add this, Don't quit until your satisfied with your efforts. Win, lose or draw you have done a beautiful job and learned alot in the process. Kudos to you!

 

[CurseTheSky]

I've been toying with the idea of a project like this for a while, but the only thing holding me back is the inability (or difficulty) of cleaning all the mineral oil off of parts if I decide to do some work on it or upgrade some hardware.

I wish there was a feasible way of using distilled water. That way, I could just take a piece out and let it all evaporate.

 

[legoman666]

I've been toying with the idea of a project like this for a while, but the only thing holding me back is the inability (or difficulty) of cleaning all the mineral oil off of parts if I decide to do some work on it or upgrade some hardware.

I wish there was a feasible way of using distilled water. That way, I could just take a piece out and let it all evaporate.

I cleaned the oil off a CPU, graphics cards, heatsinks, wireless NIC and RAM using a combination of IPA and acetone. Then I washed them with really soapy water and dried them in the oven. Worked fine.

 

[Rubycon]

I cleaned the oil off a CPU, graphics cards, heatsinks, wireless NIC and RAM using a combination of IPA and acetone. Then I washed them with really soapy water and dried them in the oven. Worked fine.

True story!

I had an LGA 775 CPU go through a washer AND dryer cycle and survive! Later on it was working in a system that was thrashed - everything in the case completely wrecked. Heat sink bent up like it was stomped on. When it was found the box was also completely soaked with sea water.

That CPU still worked! :awe:

 

[Maximilian]

I'm still waiting for the first all liquid metal enthusiast built cooling system.

It will end badly when it turns on its creator:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e1/T1000_3.jpg

 

[Red Squirrel]

I had never heard of them prior to this post! I just Googled them, looks like they take up too much space. Most of my fittings are pretty tight: See this pic here:

I think I'm going to replace them caps if needed. I'm a EE so I have access to a LCR meter at school. I'm going to measure the capacitance of a bunch of my caps so I can purchase new ones because I have no idea what the hell the codes on the top of the caps mean. This is assuming they have the rubber base at all. The rubber base does not seem to be a definite; my old mobo had them, but the sound card, graphics cards and the PSU did not. I'm going to desolder 1 or 2 first and take a look before I place the order.

Thanks for reading!

Actually before you start replacing all the caps, maybe consider adding some kind of caulking to "seal" the rubber part. Not sure what type of caulk would be good though... Idealy you'd want something that conducts heat (but not electricity) fairly well, but does not react badly with oil.

 

[legoman666]

I'm not dead! I've been trying to decide if I should attempt replacing the caps on my motherboard, or just get that MSI board with the hiC-caps. In the meantime, I've done a little work:

I bought new T's and chopped off one of the barbs. I inserted the temperature sensor and sealed it with silicone.

And here they are in place. Hopefully this new Dow Corning 735 holds up better than the high temperature RTV I was using before.

And as you can see, I decided to go with the MSI motherboard. I found a deal on it that I couldn't resist:
MSI Big Bang Fuzion Mobo: $359.99
MSI GTS 250 1Gb $139.99
Combo Discount: -$160
Rebate on GTS250: -$10
BCB: -$10
Total was $319.98 with free shipping. So I basically got $40 off the price of the mobo and got the video card for free. Sounds sweet to me!

And I got the CPU from Microcenter for $200. They're $280 at Newegg