Minimum wage discussion

[Bock]

There is much talk about it being increased. After reading about it a little, I realized I'm actually for increasing it.

Turns out, quite a bit of money "capital" is sitting in bank accounts not being used. While this does give banks required reserve ratios and what not, the economy would be better off if that money simply didn't exist anymore.

Raising the minimum wage would dilute such hoardings of liquid capital. The truly wealthy with most of their wealth in assets wouldn't be devastated financially. Their assets will just be reevaluated adjusted for inflation.

I do think at this point the game is beyond rigged in favor of the established. Maybe if additional tax brackets were introduced beyond 35%, cap gains are taxed as regular income{no fixed 0, 15 or 20%}, & cash dilution; this country could get back on the right track.

 

[1prophet]

There is much talk about it being increased. After reading about it a little, I realized I'm actually for increasing it.

Turns out, quite a bit of money "capital" is sitting in bank accounts not being used. While this does give banks required reserve ratios and what not, the economy would be better off if that money simply didn't exist anymore.

Raising the minimum wage would dilute such hoardings of liquid capital. The truly wealthy with most of their wealth in assets wouldn't be devastated financially. Their assets will just be reevaluated adjusted for inflation.

I do think at this point the game is beyond rigged in favor of the established. Maybe if additional tax brackets were introduced beyond 35%, cap gains are taxed as regular income{no fixed 0, 15 or 20%}, & cash dilution; this country could get back on the right track.

So all those job creators are Mitt Romney clones with millions in the bank they purposely hold back from their hard working minions,

you know like the mom and pop shop, deli, gas station, small businesses with less than 10 employees, etc. all of them nasty greedy hoarders that should be punished, never mind that many of them struggle to make payroll?

 

[SMOGZINN]

Minimum wage is not about punishing business, it is not a sin tax, it is a an attempt to keep people from starving.
If minimum wage hurts a business so bad that they go out of business then it is not a job creator we want. It is better that it fail and make way for a business that is actually profitable.

 

[Nashemon]

I'll admit, I'm not sure why any of what you said would even be in the discussion of an increase minimum wage, and for that matter, be the reason it sways your opinion.

In my mind, minimum wage is for unskilled labor. Those with no experience and no work history. I haven't made minimum wage since I was 16 years old, when I was in high school, living with my mom, and had no responsibilities other than chores. I ripped movie tickets, swept up popcorn, and counted my earnings in how many video games I could buy every month.

But when I hear about minimum wage increasing to $15 an hour, the first thing I think is that after spending 4 years in college, earning a Bachelor degree by going into debt, and working my way up through entry-mid level jobs over a 15 year time span to my current job that requires skilled technical labor, I could be back to making minimum wage again if this passes in my area.

The next thing I think about is how it would affect me. My pay would not change, so assuming the additional money in the economy doesn't increase prices of my mortgage and bills, I should not be affected. I don't know how true that is, though. Does the price of bread increase if most of the work force is now making double what they were before? I'm sure the bread manufacturers have to pay more for the labor to make the bread, and more for the grain that the farms have to pay to collect the grain. So why wouldn't the price of bread increase?

And in the scenario that prices increase, then my pay isn't worth as much. Increasing the minimum wage would not change my pay (not automatically anyway), but a kid in high school, living at home, could now get a job making the same money I do.

Minimum wage should go up over time. Should it instantly double, though? I don't think so.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I'll admit, I'm not sure why any of what you said would even be in the discussion of an increase minimum wage, and for that matter, be the reason it sways your opinion.

In my mind, minimum wage is for unskilled labor. Those with no experience and no work history. I haven't made minimum wage since I was 16 years old, when I was in high school, living with my mom, and had no responsibilities other than chores. I ripped movie tickets, swept up popcorn, and counted my earnings in how many video games I could buy every month.

But when I hear about minimum wage increasing to $15 an hour, the first thing I think is that after spending 4 years in college, earning a Bachelor degree by going into debt, and working my way up through entry-mid level jobs over a 15 year time span to my current job that requires skilled technical labor, I could be back to making minimum wage again if this passes in my area.

The next thing I think about is how it would affect me. My pay would not change, so assuming the additional money in the economy doesn't increase prices of my mortgage and bills, I should not be affected. I don't know how true that is, though. Does the price of bread increase if most of the work force is now making double what they were before? I'm sure the bread manufacturers have to pay more for the labor to make the bread, and more for the grain that the farms have to pay to collect the grain. So why wouldn't the price of bread increase?

And in the scenario that prices increase, then my pay isn't worth as much. Increasing the minimum wage would not change my pay (not automatically anyway), but a kid in high school, living at home, could now get a job making the same money I do.

Minimum wage should go up over time. Should it instantly double, though? I don't think so.

You make good points however, the problem with a federal minimum wage is obvious. Not all States are equal. I know of at least three States where the majority of people earn below $30,000 a year. They are not all untrained uneducated people. They merely live in States where wages are kept artificially low by conservative politicians and corporations located in other States/Countries.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Minimum wage should go up over time. Should it instantly double, though? I don't think so.

The problem though is not with minimum wage going up, it is with your salary not going up. You have been loosing earning value as inflation went up over the years, it is in truth a backdoor pay cut.
I bet the price of your company's product has not stayed the same as long as minimum wage has.

 

[Smoblikat]

You make good points however, the problem with a federal minimum wage is obvious. Not all States are equal. I know of at least three States where the majority of people earn below $30,000 a year. They are not all untrained uneducated people. They merely live in States where wages are kept artificially low by conservative politicians and corporations located in other States/Countries.

Which states have a median family income of less than $30,000?

 

[inachu]

This will just dive into arguments that nobody needs to be making 40k or 60k or 80k! Nobody deserve to be making that much money! Of course that argument fails because the source of their arguments is so that they can hire someone at 50 cents an hour.

Also it is the same argument for reasons not to hire americans because they cost too much. Have a man and woman who are married and have a high degree of education and their combined income is just under 100k then companies will balk and scream that they cost too much! Let's call TATA in India. So right there the american employer is lacking morals and his us citizenship should be torn up.


A washington post article put out around the year 2000 came out about a man from India who moved to America as a contractor to Virginia and He moved up the ladder taking on many responsibilities.
He was one of the best employees the company had and after so many years he become an American citizen.

He notified his employer he is now an American.
His boss now told him he costs too much. His boss hired 5 other people from india to replace him and give him severance and if he does not want to train them he will be fired.

So this highly skilled American man originally from India is now making the same low wage pay hell that an average white collar man is making.

You see the deal going on here yes? It is not honesty that keeps people employed.

 

[schmuckley]

I don't think the problem lies in the actual rate of wage..
as much as it does in the cost of shelter and food + utilities.
Rent is crazy nowadays..so are the food prices..
..and electric, oy!
Yet there's tons of empty houses and a lot of new construction going on.. (mostly using illegals)

 

[Paul98]

Increasing the minimum wage to a point is a good thing, the money is going to the people who will be spending it.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I don't think the problem lies in the actual rate of wage..
as much as it does in the cost of shelter and food + utilities.
Rent is crazy nowadays..so are the food prices..
..and electric, oy!
Yet there's tons of empty houses and a lot of new construction going on.. (mostly using illegals)

Correct, the numbers by themselves are meaningless. It is relative value that matters. The value of wages has been going in relation to the cost of living. The minimum wage is an attempt to keep the lowest paid keep from falling too far below the curve of survivable wages.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Which states have a median family income of less than $30,000?

Median is not the correct term. If the income populations is skewed as I said, the median income is useless. In any case, States like Arizona, New Mexico, Mississippi and most of the south have vast numbers of people living at or, below the poverty line and it has nothing to do with training or education. However, the people who do have money are also the ones making the laws keeping the wages artificially low. Gee, I wonder what their motivation is?

 

[cabri]

Increasing the minimum wage to a point is a good thing, the money is going to the people who will be spending it.

And what is the point.

If the wage is increased by 25% for doing nothing to earn it; why should not others also get a 25% wage boost.

And is it then justified to those that were not at min wage but with the increase be at or below the min wage level.

Somebody is getting paid more than you for doing less. Is that fair or just a handout?

so if you then bump that group; they wlil be affecting the next group up;
How far do you advance the ladder by compressing the value of a person;s labor?

 

[schmuckley]

Why is rent $750 to $2k a month?
Why is food so expensive?
I think someone making minimum wage should be able to live..maybe with a roommate..Is that wrong?

 

[Craig234]

The problem is, our economic system does not reliably meet people's needs. It meets mot people's needs, but others can be left short.

Our system is too extreme about a few getting fat too large a share of the power and wealth. Moderate inequality is good, no inequality is bad, and huge inequality is terrible.

This one policy is a tiny part of the answer. It'd be like going from no police to one part-time officer in a big city to deal with crime - good, but not nearly enough.

The arguments against raising the minimum wage are little more than the sort of phony arguments people wanting to make money from low labor costs pay to spread.

 

[inachu]

And what is the point.

If the wage is increased by 25% for doing nothing to earn it; why should not others also get a 25% wage boost.

And is it then justified to those that were not at min wage but with the increase be at or below the min wage level.

Somebody is getting paid more than you for doing less. Is that fair or just a handout?

so if you then bump that group; they wlil be affecting the next group up;
How far do you advance the ladder by compressing the value of a person;s labor?

I would call it a correction and not a wage boost. Jobs that used to pay 60k a year are now barely paying 50k for those very same jobs today.

Bring back original pay scale and people would be better off. Our economy would be better for for the residual money they have for the small stuff that employs those without any talent.

 

[Dessicant]

There is much talk about it being increased. After reading about it a little, I realized I'm actually for increasing it.

Turns out, quite a bit of money "capital" is sitting in bank accounts not being used. While this does give banks required reserve ratios and what not, the economy would be better off if that money simply didn't exist anymore.

Raising the minimum wage would dilute such hoardings of liquid capital. The truly wealthy with most of their wealth in assets wouldn't be devastated financially. Their assets will just be reevaluated adjusted for inflation.

I do think at this point the game is beyond rigged in favor of the established. Maybe if additional tax brackets were introduced beyond 35%, cap gains are taxed as regular income{no fixed 0, 15 or 20%}, & cash dilution; this country could get back on the right track.

The minimum wage is a form of coercive price fixing. As such, it cannot be a good thing.

It is also basically a redistribution program. The idea is to take money from people who have it, to give to others because they need it.

Again, a bad idea and completely immoral and unjust.

The minimum wage should be abolished.

 

[SMOGZINN]

The minimum wage is a form of coercive price fixing. As such, it cannot be a good thing.

It is also basically a redistribution program. The idea is to take money from people who have it, to give to others because they need it.

Again, a bad idea and completely immoral and unjust.

The minimum wage should be abolished.

You are wrong. The idea would be sound if there was equal negotiation power. But there is not. There are all sorts of rules that prevent labor from fairly negotiating with management. Managements ability to manipulate the labor pool, the basic cost of living, and successfully petition government for assistance when they are financially hurt by labor, constitutes a much larger redistribution program than minimum wage.

Abolish government corporate subsidies, institute a tariff on all imported goods, and remove all the varied union breaking rules, we could consider removing the minimum wage. But of course if you did that wages would be much higher than the minimum wage anyway.

We will know when the negotiation power is equalized when corporations makes no more profit than their employees.

 

[PingviN]

you know like the mom and pop shop, deli, gas station, small businesses with less than 10 employees, etc. all of them nasty greedy hoarders that should be punished, never mind that many of them struggle to make payroll?

You can have a [relatively] high minimum wage and still make payroll even if you're a small company. It's not like there are no functioning countries out in the world were people can live on a 9-5 employment.

 

[NetGuySC]

Wouldn't the increased labor costs drive up prices and negate the benefits of a minimum wage increase?

If not, then why not increase the minimum wage to $50/hour or more? We could eliminate poverty, welfare, food stamps etc etc etc.

 

[Paul98]

The minimum wage is a form of coercive price fixing. As such, it cannot be a good thing.

It is also basically a redistribution program. The idea is to take money from people who have it, to give to others because they need it.

Again, a bad idea and completely immoral and unjust.

The minimum wage should be abolished.

Don't let ideology blind you to reality.

We are already paying these people more through government assistance. These companies are able to pay them this wage because the government will help them out.

Now look at it as those who get this money will be spending all or most of this money they get, they will also have less government assistance. The money goes back into the economy, while making certain companies pay are more reasonable wage. The amount of extra cost will be very small.

 

[NetGuySC]

Don't let ideology blind you to reality.

We are already paying these people more through government assistance. These companies are able to pay them this wage because the government will help them out.

Now look at it as those who get this money will be spending all or most of this money they get, they will also have less government assistance. The money goes back into the economy, while making certain companies pay are more reasonable wage. The amount of extra cost will be very small.

I asked a simple question, why not raise it to $50 hour?

 

[Paul98]

I asked a simple question, why not raise it to $50 hour?

Read what I wrote, there is nothing there that says 50$ an hour would be a good idea.

Why not 500, why not a million, there is a difference between raising the minimum wage to a reasonable wage and making it absurd.

 

[Bock]

Quite a few of you guys are confused about how the markets in general work "in theory or are supposed to work"

When minimum wage goes up, the market value of all wages/salaries goes up as well. If your over paid currently, then it won't really go up for you.
Inflation will occur. Real assets will increase in value.
That million dollars in cash you have sitting in the bank not doing anything, yeah, that will depreciate. It will still be a million bucks, but it won't be able to buy 40 ford mustangs anymore.

By forcing the currency to become worth *less*, Obama & cronies force the hand of those sitting on stockpiles of cash to invest it. Also, reducing the real cost of debt. Winning politically with the masses.

 

[NetGuySC]

Read what I wrote, there is nothing there that says 50$ an hour would be a good idea.

Why not 500, why not a million, there is a difference between raising the minimum wage to a reasonable wage and making it absurd.

Whatever reason $50 pet hour is not a good idea for the minimum wage is the exact same reason $___ per hour is not a good idea. They both have the same net effect, nothing.
Even at $50/hr, the minimum wage would still not be a living wage.