Minnesota's Economy Is One Of The Best In The Nation

[Newell Steamer]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carl-gibson/mark-dayton-minnesota-economy_b_6737786.html

When he took office in January of 2011, Minnesota governor Mark Dayton inherited a $6.2 billion budget deficit and a 7 percent unemployment rate from his predecessor, Tim Pawlenty, the soon-forgotten Republican candidate for the presidency who called himself Minnesota's first true fiscally-conservative governor in modern history.

Link goes into the gore - by detailing how he raised taxes on the rich (D as well as minimum wage (D: x 2). And, it paid off!

Raising taxes on those who can afford to pay more will turn a deficit into a surplus. Raising the minimum wage will increase the median income. And in a state where education is a budget priority and economic growth is one of the highest in the nation, it only makes sense that more businesses would stay.

I know, I know, the Huffington Post is LULbiral propaganda, but there is a TON of links backing up their claims - some links are even to Forbes no less.

So, how is it that liberal approach (raise taxes on the rich, increase min wage) has knocked it out of the park, while the conservative approach (cut taxes on the rich, leave min wage as is) is shitting the bed?

 

[Jaskalas]

Isn't that region's economy being carried by oil money from fracking?

I mean... I support the minimum wage hike, and will entertain motions for tax plans... but maybe you're leaving out important information and an economy doesn't just come down to two policy decisions.

 

[rudeguy]

Isn't that region's economy being carried by oil money from fracking?

I mean... I support the minimum wage hike, and will entertain motions for tax plans... but maybe you're leaving out important information and an economy doesn't just come down to two policy decisions.

OOooooooh...that's going to sting!

 

[Herr Kutz]

Just imagine the surplus we could have if the minimum wage was increased 100x and and there was a flat 100% tax on everyone.

 

[Genx87]

This is kind of a repost. And a lot of the policies that have made this state do well were enacted decades ago.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/the-miracle-of-minneapolis/384975/

MN has historically outpaced the national unemployment rate regardless of who was in power.

http://www.deptofnumbers.com/unemployment/minnesota/

I think Dayton gets too much credit in these articles for things that are out of his control. My dislike of him is he helped push through an NFL stadium for a billionaire paid for by a regressive tax on cigarettes and a one time tax on out of state corporations. Long term revenues will probably end up out of the general fund(middle class). All that so a billionaire can make hundreds of millions. And yes I know the initial tax was to be on electronic pull tabs. But everybody knew that was BS. And it has been imo criminally far away from the projections. First year was projected at 35 million tax revenues. It netter literally 0. That is fraud in my book. And afaik it has only got worse since then.

Anyways that is not to say these liberal policies haven't worked. Clearly MN being a cold weather state has done really well where conservative economic ideology says we shouldn't.

 

[thraashman]

Isn't that region's economy being carried by oil money from fracking?

I mean... I support the minimum wage hike, and will entertain motions for tax plans... but maybe you're leaving out important information and an economy doesn't just come down to two policy decisions.

That article says " And so in dozens of small towns and rural townships in Minnesota, Illinois, Iowa and especially Wisconsin, the demand for frac sand, as it's called, has brought a surge of new mining activity." So then why is Minnesota's economy doing so significantly better than Wisconsin's? The answer is already known, because these Republican wet dream economic policies cause economic problems while the opposite result in improvements.

 

[Genx87]

Isn't that region's economy being carried by oil money from fracking?

I mean... I support the minimum wage hike, and will entertain motions for tax plans... but maybe you're leaving out important information and an economy doesn't just come down to two policy decisions.

Didnt read the article. But North Dakota is the primary beneficiary of fracking. That is hundreds of miles from the MN border.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Isn't that region's economy being carried by oil money from fracking?

I mean... I support the minimum wage hike, and will entertain motions for tax plans... but maybe you're leaving out important information and an economy doesn't just come down to two policy decisions.

Contrary to that article, there is no actual fracking occurring in Minnesota, though there some limited processing of fracked sand from other states. Meanwhile, Wisconsin, under the leadership of Scott Walker, has seen its economy dragging despite the fact that it does conduct fracking. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/purple-wisconsin/280089862.html

 

[Jaskalas]

Contrary to that article, there is no actual fracking occurring in Minnesota, though there some limited processing of fracked sand from other states. Meanwhile, Wisconsin, under the leadership of Scott Walker, has seen its economic dragging despite the fact that it does conduct fracking. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/purple-wisconsin/280089862.html

Okay, fracking isn't what I expected in Minnesota. I stand corrected.

Your article ends on an interesting comparison. Perhaps I discounted the sheer size of the state government, and the impacts Wisconsin faced from those budget cuts. I do find it interesting to learn whether there's any other reason for Minnesota to be doing better.

If we do not learn of one, a standout reason, then this topic may very well end with the OP winning his point.

 

[Zivic]

the minimum wage is going to hit people hard in this area.

<8/1/14 it was $6.15
8/1/14 it jumped to $8.00.... only a 30% increase
8/1/15 it jumps to $9.00.... now a 46+% increase from the the base in just over a year
8/1/16 it jumps again to $9.50... so over 2 yrs it jumps nearly 55% from the original base.

at the same time this now trumps agriculture fed exemptions because state minimum is now over fed minimum. State has also reduced what is considered a 'large' business lowering gross annual sales to $500,000 to be considered large - this is a change from the previous $625,000 threshold . This is significant because small businesses could pay $5.25, but now a business that was previously small is now categorized as large -> so going from $5.25 at the beginning of 2014 to having to pay $9.50 come 8/1/16. an almost 81% increase in wages.... this all on top of increase taxes and healthcare requirements. I just don't know how some businesses will survive these increases


We will not see this help things. watch what really will happen with wages/hours/costs of food and goods

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Okay, fracking isn't what I expected in Minnesota. I stand corrected.

Your article ends on an interesting comparison. Perhaps I discounted the sheer size of the state government, and the impacts Wisconsin faced from those budget cuts. I do find it interesting to learn whether there's any other reason for Minnesota to be doing better.

If we do not learn of one, a standout reason, then this topic may very well end with the OP winning his point.

As a practical matter I think it's overly simplistic to credit or blame the governor, or one or two policies, with singlehandedly swaying a state's economy. That being said, it is unquestionably true that MN is a more liberal state then WI, and its principal economic changes since Governor Dayton took office were liberal, whereas the opposite was true in WI.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Okay, fracking isn't what I expected in Minnesota. I stand corrected.

Actually - you stand STUNG!

OOooooooh...that's going to sting!

Thanks again rudeguy, always looking out for me on these forums - much appreciated.

 

[senseamp]

Kansas has a better fiscal plan. Cut taxes and then borrow billions to finance pension obligations until Brownback's term runs out. Winner!

 

[berzerker60]

Just imagine the surplus we could have if the minimum wage was increased 100x and and there was a flat 100% tax on everyone.

This is such a stupid rebuttal. You'll die if you drink too much water too, but that doesn't mean going from 3 to 4 cups/day is unhealthy. Extremes being bad doesn't say a damned thing about the moderate policies in between.

the minimum wage is going to hit people hard in this area.

... I just don't know how some businesses will survive these increases

We will not see this help things. watch what really will happen with wages/hours/costs of food and goods

Ahh yes, the tried and true "stick my head in the sand because reality doesn't fit my ideology" approach. Businesses HAVE survived these increases. They're not brand new. What happened with wages/hours/costs of goods is that they adjusted.

 

[bshole]

As a practical matter I think it's overly simplistic to credit or blame the governor, or one or two policies, with singlehandedly swaying a state's economy. That being said, it is unquestionably true that MN is a more liberal state then WI, and its principal economic changes since Governor Dayton took office were liberal, whereas the opposite was true in WI.

Now Walker is going after the other unions in Wisconsin. It appears Wisconsin is in a race to the bottom. It is too bad about Minnesota having the Vikings, if it wasn't for that it would be a tempting place to live.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Now Walker is going after the other unions in Wisconsin. It appears Wisconsin is in a race to the bottom. It is too bad about Minnesota having the Vikings, if it wasn't for that it would be a tempting place to live.

Walker makes me sad. I went to UW-Madison for undergrad and love a lot of aspects of Wisconsin, but he really does seem bound and determined to destroy the state's strengths.

 

[Zivic]

Ahh yes, the tried and true "stick my head in the sand because reality doesn't fit my ideology" approach. Businesses HAVE survived these increases. They're not brand new. What happened with wages/hours/costs of goods is that they adjusted.

Some will, some won't. some could, some will chose not to. if one is a business owner that was paying say a $1 over federal minimum wage last year, now is looking at another $1-1.25 on top of that by august of next year is like a big FU from the government. MN made a big jump to 9th highest minimum wage in the country when it went to $8.00. This isn't some marginal rate increase. imagine if you were a business owner and your labor costs were jumping 55-80+% in two years. Now payroll taxes increase as payroll increases, unemployment insurance increases, as does work comp premiums.

here's the thing. Not all labor is worth the $9-9.50 govt mandates be payed; let a lone over time pay after 48. At some point, it isn't worth the hassle for business owners. Especially ones in that $500k to a million sales range. I personally think we have gotten to that point for 'some' business owners.

I see this as a push (intentional or unintentional) to eliminate small businesses. IMHO, if anything they should have written it in to increase the annual sales threshold of what was labeled as a 'large' business

 

[rudeguy]

Actually - you stand STUNG!



Thanks again rudeguy, always looking out for me on these forums - much appreciated.

I just asked myself...What Would Carson Dyle Do and it was all obvious.

 

[Meghan54]

Some will, some won't. some could, some will chose not to. if one is a business owner that was paying say a $1 over federal minimum wage last year, now is looking at another $1-1.25 on top of that by august of next year is like a big FU from the government. MN made a big jump to 9th highest minimum wage in the country when it went to $8.00. This isn't some marginal rate increase. imagine if you were a business owner and your labor costs were jumping 55-80+% in two years. Now payroll taxes increase as payroll increases, unemployment insurance increases, as does work comp premiums.

here's the thing. Not all labor is worth the $9-9.50 govt mandates be payed; let a lone over time pay after 48. At some point, it isn't worth the hassle for business owners. Especially ones in that $500k to a million sales range. I personally think we have gotten to that point for 'some' business owners.

I see this as a push (intentional or unintentional) to eliminate small businesses. IMHO, if anything they should have written it in to increase the annual sales threshold of what was labeled as a 'large' business

BS.

I've watched this country raise its min. wage many times and there has never been a collapse of business nor businesses closing en masse, as you imply.

Instead, while there may be some initial unemployment, it usually is reversed within a year or so by the increased demand for goods from essentially all businesses. People have more money to spend, demand for goods/services increases, esp. for buying that's more discretionary in nature.

The businesses that cannot withstand the increase were marginal if unable to deal with a .75/hr increase in min. wage ($30/wk for someone working full time at current min. wage.)

 

[berzerker60]

Some will, some won't. some could, some will chose not to. if one is a business owner that was paying say a $1 over federal minimum wage last year, now is looking at another $1-1.25 on top of that by august of next year is like a big FU from the government. MN made a big jump to 9th highest minimum wage in the country when it went to $8.00. This isn't some marginal rate increase. imagine if you were a business owner and your labor costs were jumping 55-80+% in two years. Now payroll taxes increase as payroll increases, unemployment insurance increases, as does work comp premiums.

here's the thing. Not all labor is worth the $9-9.50 govt mandates be payed; let a lone over time pay after 48. At some point, it isn't worth the hassle for business owners. Especially ones in that $500k to a million sales range. I personally think we have gotten to that point for 'some' business owners.

I see this as a push (intentional or unintentional) to eliminate small businesses. IMHO, if anything they should have written it in to increase the annual sales threshold of what was labeled as a 'large' business

Except increased consumer demand can mean that these small businesses have more customers too. It's not an easy thing to untangle, which is why this has been studied to death, with the consensus being that raising the minimum wage has minimal effect - good or bad - on unemployment. It doesn't matter what sounds logical or comfortable for you or me, the reality is that raising the minimum wage (by reasonable amounts, not $100000/hr like the dumb rebuttal that always comes on these forums) just doesn't kill many jobs. In the interim, it makes life a lot more livable for a lot of people.

It's always going to be a balancing act, of course, but there are so many people who think that mental "logic" (according to their own ideology) can substitute for empirical reality.

 

[finglobes]

Minnesota is doing well because its feeding China. Minn has a big agriculture sector that makes it more resilient than other states in a recession. Changes in regulations economy in China are leading to more imports.

 

[Newell Steamer]

I just asked myself...What Would Carson Dyle Do and it was all obvious.

Carson Dyle would act like a meathead by not even bothering to read Jaskalas' link and automatically assume his 'point' was valid, but as it turns out, it was wrong?

That sounds more like you than anyone else here - because that is what you are known for doing and have done; in this very thread even.

 

[bshole]

Minnesota is doing well because its feeding China. Minn has a big agriculture sector that makes it more resilient than other states in a recession. Changes in regulations economy in China are leading to more imports.

No bigger than Wisconsin. They are about identical. The only meaningful difference between Minnesota and Wisconsin is manufacturing jobs (nod to Wisconsin) and health care/education jobs (nod to Minnesota). In all other sectors they are basically the same.

One could make a case that Minnesota's health care/education jobs (growing industry) and Wisonsin's manufacturing jobs (dying industry) are part of the reason why two once equal states are becoming increasingly unequal. This trend started in 2000..... right around the time that health care costs began their explosive growth.

 

[HomerJS]

Just imagine the surplus we could have if the minimum wage was increased 100x and and there was a flat 100% tax on everyone.

Jus imagine the surplus we could have if the minimum wage was eliminated, taxes were eliminated for the rich and raised on the poor.

 

[tracerbullet]

So the presented theories so far about why MN is doing better outside of its liberal policies (fracking, exports to China, agriculture vs. WI) have been shown to be incorrect.

So it may be the policies?

Moving on, even if the policies had some good effects, they may still cause some bad ones such as causing small businesses to close up? That prediction of the future could be a concern, however thus far everywhere you go around here today - the restaurants, grocery stores, haircut places, Jiffy Lube, everyone has a Help Wanted sign in front of it. A recent article showed up in the paper about it.

So it may be the policies?