Miss Universe Canada yanks transgendered contestant from pageant

[Gargen]

OK, so lets see if I have this straight.

Sex and gender are two different things. That's new to me, but language evolves and I'm fine with that. Jenna's sex is male, but gender is female (if that's wrong, let me know). A few things I don't understand that the link provided above didn't explain (sorry, not gonna buy the book... honestly not that worried about it at this point, but I suppose that could change depending on the answers to the questions below). These are serious questions BTW. I know you've labeled me as some ignorant redneck super bigot that wants everyone not like me to go to the eleventy-billionth level of hell and will think that way forever and ever and ever, but I swear, I'm actually giving this a shot. Anyway, a few questions (all stated from the male->female perspective for simplicity):

- At what point does "I see myself as female" become "I am female and should be treated as such"?
- What should I call the born physiological gender-ish trait that I had previously thought of as gender? I.E. when the person see themselves as female, but hasn't gone through any change yet, their "trait X" is still male (I think that's a person's "sex", but I have a feeling that's not quite right)
- Is it considered automatically wrong (the same way racism is) to consider "trait X" from the previous question as a qualification for something (like say... a pageant) or are their cases where that trait trumps "gender"?
- What's the difference between a male that likes feminine things a male that really is a female?

 

[dennilfloss]

They don't just like feminine things (e.g. like crossdressers), they think like a woman, have a womanly brain constitution and their self-image & identity is that of a woman. It's not merely a language issue, it's a knowledge of the brain issue. Our knowledge is improved so our definition is more nuanced now. Same as when relativity completed newtonian physics. The fact that many people have difficulties understanding the concept of gender just underscores the fact that this is not a simple, black & white matter either from a physical and/or psychological point of view.

In Canada you can officially call yourself female as far as legalities are concerned only after having undergone gender reassignment surgery, meaning your lower bits have been altered. Once that's done, you are female as far as the law is concerned. Ditto for female-to-male reassignment. Before that you can rightly feel that you are female in your mind (and have a female brain) but you are still legally a male until your genitals have been altered to a female habitus. Many transsexuals never go all the way for various reasons (e.g. cost, health - it is a very taxing and I guess painful procedure) and legally are not considered transgendered. Limits have to be drawn from a legal perspective (think of citizenship as an analogy).

 

[amish]

Am disappoint to find she's post-op.

prefer pre-op?

 

[irishScott]

Am I the only one noticing the man-arms, man-shoulders , man-hands, man-legs, among many other giveaways? God some of you guys would fuck a transgendered snake if it was wearing a bkini.

 

[Spoooon]

Am I the only one noticing the man-arms, man-shoulders , man-hands, man-legs, among many other giveaways? God some of you guys would fuck a transgendered snake if it was wearing a bkini.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSL4cmFW_GU

 

[rh71]

rules

they can have their own competition

 

[Hugo Drax]

Surprised at how many folks here are into chicks with dicks. Anyhow several pictures of him show masculine features.

Allowing chicks with dicks into miss universe is like saying its okay to sell fake rolexes at full price to the end user.

 

[dennilfloss]

News for Hugo Drax: She doesn't have a dick. It's been inverted into a vaginal pouch.

 

[0roo0roo]

News for Hugo Drax: She doesn't have a dick. It's been inverted into a vaginal pouch.

You mean a dick pocket right?

 

[SandEagle]

Why doesn't anybody ask the penis what it wants?

ok. what is it that you want? :awe:

 

[dennilfloss]

You mean a dick pocket right?

"Dick in the side pocket, over the two balls, one bank, with backspin..."

 

[surfsatwerk]

ok. what is it that you want? :awe:

I want a pizza party with cake for desert.

 

[dennilfloss]

New development. She may be allowed back.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/04/02/transgender-beauty-queen-back-in-pageant

She has hired legal counsel in both Canada and the US and was about to hit them with a wallop of a discrimination lawsuit.

 

[SlitheryDee]

New development. She may be allowed back.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/04/02/transgender-beauty-queen-back-in-pageant

She has hired legal counsel in both Canada and the US and was about to hit them with a wallop of a discrimination lawsuit.

I'm not so sure I would consider this a victory. If she doesn't win she may file a lawsuit over that. If she does win, everyone will think it was because of the publicity and potential lawsuit.

That pic is hot... Damn, what kind of world are we entering into? :hmm:

 

[dennilfloss]

That pic is hot... Damn, what kind of world are we entering to. :hmm:

Just wait til the gynoids (female androids) show up.:ninja:

 

[SlitheryDee]

Am I the only one noticing the man-arms, man-shoulders , man-hands, man-legs, among many other giveaways? God some of you guys would fuck a transgendered snake if it was wearing a bkini.

I noticed potential man feet in a few pictures, which is a major turnoff for me. Everything else you're claiming to be mannish is well within the range that I've seen on many good looking girls. The things you point out are things you would never notice before someone told you she was transgendered, and would likely also "notice" on any random genuine female if someone lied and told you she was transgendered.

No, if she didn't tell you, you wouldn't know.

 

[Powermoloch]

It's a man baby

 

[sdifox]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-a-male-can-compete-after-all/article2390119/


She can compete.

 

[dmcowen674]

That pic is hot... Damn, what kind of world are we entering into? :hmm:

One that drives the Religious insane :thumbsup:

Would be awesome if she won but that won't happen.

 

[Sinsear]

It's a man. End of story.

Enough of the pity party boo hoo misunderstood crap.

 

[Soundmanred]

Disgusting.
The pussies caved in to this confused mess of a "wo-man".

 

[BlitzPuppet]

Sounds fine to me. I have no beef with transgendered, but sorry, I'll never consider them anything other than their born gender... something about X and Y chromosomes.

Thank you.

If you are born with XX or XY there is nothing you can do to change that. Please...you are really not a woman/man if you don't have the chromosomes to match it.

 

[amdhunter]

I'd hump the shit outta shim.

 

[dennilfloss]

BlitzPuppet,

That reductionist simplistic explanation is outdated. It's been over 100 years since Stevens and Beecher Wilson first described the XY sex-determination system. Our knowledge is more advanced now so we know this isn't a simple mechanism of presence/absence but of proportions and gene interaction. Put your trust in current medical science, not antediluvian bigotry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_sex-determination_system

So many people trust science when it comes to explaining the material world and making their machines, computers, planes and gadgets work, yet they will reject new scientific data when it comes to the human condition.

Edit: We classify stuff because it simplifies how we elucidate the patterns and forces we see in the natural world, making convenient little categories and boxes in which to fit stuff for the purpose of communication without equivocation. Unfortunately, nature is not bound by our worldview and the real world if full of borderline and transitional forms that defy simple classification. The usual demarcation between man & woman is an approximation for exactly this reason but exceptions do occur. The history of science is replete with examples of this whether they be fossil taxa or astral bodies, for example. Nowadays we know that the dichotomy between matter and energy is not as simple as we once thought it was. Electricity & magnetism were once considered to be very distinct phenomena. Etc...

 

[Imp]

No problem that she can compete... Just would like a warning so people don't get too upset after jerking off to her/him.