Mississippi Initiative 26 - Changing the definition of Personhood

[Jaskalas]

wha??

I'm thinking Roe V Wade, judges don't write law. What are you thinking of?

 

[Ausm]

I'm thinking Roe V Wade, judges don't write law. What are you thinking of?

I was talking about the individual States Abortion laws.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

This would actually be great, if corporations would also be prevented from obtaining "personhood" legal status...

 

[piasabird]

It would just force people to go accross state line to get an abortion. Just because they write a law, it does not mean it will hold up in court.

 

[Patranus]

Don't see why anyone should have a problem with a state making a decision that is in its best interest.

If this is what the people of Mississippi want, why should the rest of the country or the federal government have the power to tell them otherwise?

 

[polarmystery]

Good for them*.

You atheist a-holes are doing the very same thing.



*Sort of depends on which religion you are talking about, now doesn't it?

I'm not an atheist, but saying atheism is a religion is like saying "not-stamp collecting" is a hobby.

 

[Kadarin]

Abortion opinions are not based only on religion.

The only people who are against them seem to be the religious nutcases.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

This would make no difference to abortion laws whatsoever.

No person, born or unborn, has an unqualified right to occupy the body of another person. No person, born or unborn, has an unqualified right to forcibly extract the whole of its life-sustaining nourishment from another person's bloodstream, nor to inject another person's body with hormones and body waste. Any person waiving his or her right to defend themselves from such violations must do so explicitly.

A woman owes no duty to a fetus, whether they make it a legal person or not.

 

[Patranus]

This would make no difference to abortion laws whatsoever.

No person, born or unborn, has an unqualified right to occupy the body of another person. No person, born or unborn, has an unqualified right to forcibly extract the whole of its life-sustaining nourishment from another person's bloodstream, nor to inject another person's body with hormones and body waste. Any person waiving his or her right to defend themselves from such violations must do so explicitly.

A woman owes no duty to a fetus, whether they make it a legal person or not.

So if a pregnant woman is murdered should the criminal be charged with 1 count or 2 counts of murder?

Just curious.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

So if a pregnant woman is murdered should the criminal be charged with 1 count or 2 counts of murder?

Just curious

I think whenever a pregnant woman is murdered they should charge specifically you with 5 counts of murder and 1 count of felony imbecillary.

If you want to make a relevant point, though, go head. By all means.

 

[artikk]

Wouldn't this go against Roe vs. Wade? I believe federal laws and precedents supercede state's laws when the two conflict.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Wouldn't this go against Roe vs. Wade? I believe federal laws and precedents supercede state's laws when the two conflict.

It's Mississippi. The people down there probably think you can repeal the law of gravity.

 

[Chaotic42]

Don't see why anyone should have a problem with a state making a decision that is in its best interest.

If this is what the people of Mississippi want, why should the rest of the country or the federal government have the power to tell them otherwise?

Because the definition of when life begins and what constitutes a person has no place being voted on in the first place, nor should it be in the state constitution.

I realize that we are all just a bunch of inbred rednecks to you enlightened non-Southerners, but remember that there are people with some common sense down here.

Edit: By the way, I live in the former West Florida Republic area, so we're a little more... normal down here. We can't seem to get the statehood thing going though.

 

[sactoking]

Laws like this are just bound for failure. What happens if you go for in vitro and only a portion of the embryos attach and thrive? Is freezing an embryo tantamount to being held against one's will?

 

[Schadenfroh]

I'm a MS native, although I have not lived in MS for several years. I cherish my home state, but left to pursue educational and career opportunities elsewhere.

I'm not a fan of abortion in later stages of pregnancy (mid to late). The obvious exception for later stages being situations where the fetus is found to be deformed.

IMO, this initiative is way too open and slippery. I'm not sure if such things belong in the constitution itself.

But, it will pass with overwhelming approval. The majority of Democrats in MS are socially conservative and fiscally left-wing. The Republicans are just as socially conservative and fiscally conservative.

 

[StarTech]

What if its a gay baby?

I think you must mean if the baby had chosen to be gay

 

[Patranus]

Because the definition of when life begins and what constitutes a person has no place being voted on in the first place, nor should it be in the state constitution.

I realize that we are all just a bunch of inbred rednecks to you enlightened non-Southerners, but remember that there are people with some common sense down here.

Edit: By the way, I live in the former West Florida Republic area, so we're a little more... normal down here. We can't seem to get the statehood thing going though.

Do you do not believe in democracy or the will of the people.....got it.

Like I said, I may or may not agree with the result but the state is entitled to run itself however it sees fit (within the constitution) and if that involves driving itself off a cliff (like CA and cap & tax) more power to them.

This is the type of shit that makes America great. If you don't like how Mississippi is handling its shit THEN DON'T LIVE THERE.

 

[CitizenKain]

Do you do not believe in democracy or the will of the people.....got it.

Like I said, I may or may not agree with the result but the state is entitled to run itself however it sees fit (within the constitution) and if that involves driving itself off a cliff (like CA and cap & tax) more power to them.

This is the type of shit that makes America great. If you don't like how Mississippi is handling its shit THEN DON'T LIVE THERE.

Patranus.txt: If they didn't want to be slaves, they should have left.

 

[rockyct]

This basically would ban invetro procedures as that is more of a shotgun approach with fertilized eggs to get one to stick. Most don't make it and they don't use all the eggs.

Like with most of the socially conservative people, let them stay busy with symbolic victories while the rest of the country becomes more progressive.

 

[Paratus]

So if someone took the morning after pill and the fertilized egg didn't implant that would be murder?

Of how many "people"?
Better charge em with at least 6 deaths to be on the safe side.

Also since most fertilized eggs don't implant anyway which would kill the "person" isn't having unprotected sex or trying to have a child tantamount to child endangerment?

 

[shira]

Don't see why anyone should have a problem with a state making a decision that is in its best interest.

If this is what the people of Mississippi want, why should the rest of the country or the federal government have the power to tell them otherwise?

Let's see if we can get you to answer your own question:

Suppose the people of the state of Mississippi put an amendment to the Mississippi Constitution on the ballot, and this amendment defined guns as being illegal drugs. If this ballot measure passed, it would be illegal to possess guns in Mississippi, since possession of guns would ipso facto be possession of illegal drugs, which is of course illegal.

Now, would YOU argue, "If this is what the people of Mississippi want, why should the rest of the country or the federal government have the power to tell them otherwise?"

To put this more concretely, the people of a jurisdiction cannot legally deprive any person of a liberty protected by the U.S. Constitution. A woman's right to an abortion was enunciated in Roe v Wade, and regardless of "what the people of the state of Mississippi want," they cannot deprive a woman of the right to an abortion by creating absurd, baseless, legalistic definitions.

 

[HomerJS]

According to science a woman is pregnant when a fertilized egg attaches to the uterine wall and begins growing.

This personhood law would redefine pregnancy and I'm not sure Mississippi can do that.

That's like saying a state can pass a law defining the color of the sky green.

 

[Perknose]

That was my first thought on reading this. and is having sex with a pregnant women rape of the other "person?" or just assault?

Don't be silly! It would, of course, be corrupting the morals of a minor.

 

[Rainsford]

Do you do not believe in democracy or the will of the people.....got it.

Like I said, I may or may not agree with the result but the state is entitled to run itself however it sees fit (within the constitution) and if that involves driving itself off a cliff (like CA and cap & tax) more power to them.

This is the type of shit that makes America great. If you don't like how Mississippi is handling its shit THEN DON'T LIVE THERE.

It's hard to disagree with the idea of the will of the people. On the other hand, democracy has to be (to borrow a phrase) more than 2 wolves and 1 lamb voting on who gets to be lunch. If minority positions aren't afforded any protection in a democracy, than I'd say it's not all that much of an improvement over a dictatorship. 51% of the people controlling your life vs a single person doing the same is only a significant distinction if you're part of the 51%.

 

[Perknose]

This is the type of shit that makes America great. If you don't like how Mississippi is handling its shit THEN DON'T LIVE THERE.

There were other times in the not too distant past when "we" didn't like "how Mississippi was handling its shit"

1930: Miscegenation [State Code]
Miscegenation declared a felony. Nullified interracial marriages if parties went to another jurisdiction where such marriages were legal. Also prohibited marriages between persons of the Caucasian race and those persons who had one eighth of more Asian blood.

1942: Voting rights [Constitution]
Instituted poll tax requirement.

1942: Miscegenation [State Code]
Marriage between white and Negro or Asian void. Penalty: $500 and/or up to ten years imprisonment. Anyone advocating intermarriage subject to fine of $500 and/or six months.

1942: Health Care [State Code ]
Segregated facilities at state charity hospital and separate entrances at all state hospitals.

1956: Education [State Code & Constitution]
Separate schools to be maintained. All state executive officers required to prevent implementation of school segregation decision by "lawful means." Governor may close any school if he determines closure to be in best interest of majority of children.

1956: Public carriers [State Code]
Public carriers to be segregated.

1956: Public accommodation [Statute]
Firms and corporations authorized to choose their clientele and the right to refuse service to any person.

1958: Recreation [Statute]
Authorized goveronr to close parks to prevent desegregation.

That shit didn't "make America great" either, you reactionary apologist.