Mississippi joins the fight for 10 comandments!

[MovingTarget]

Yes, its true. The governor of Mississippi has offered to display the monument in question in Alabama in his state! How will this effect the controversy? Any thoughts on this turn of events?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/08/28/ten.commandments/index.html

 

[MovingTarget]

From cnn.com

Mississippi covets neighbor's monument
Protests, lawsuit continue in Alabama

Thursday, August 28, 2003 Posted: 5:57 PM EDT (2157 GMT)

About 1,000 supporters of suspended Chief Justice Roy Moore rallied outside the Alabama Judicial Building Thursday.


MONTGOMERY, Alabama (CNN) -- Mississippi Gov. Ronnie Musgrove volunteered Thursday to join neighboring Alabama in the fight over the Ten Commandments monument by offering to display it in his state's capitol building for a week starting September 7.

The 2.6-ton granite edifice was moved from the rotunda of the Alabama state judicial building to a back room out of public view Wednesday on order of a federal court that ruled it violated the U.S. Constitution's restriction on government establishment of religion. (Full story)

Musgrove, a Democrat, urged other governors to allow similar displays in their states "to show support for our common Judeo-Christian heritage."

"Like many Americans, I have watched as Alabama's struggle to display our Christian heritage has unfolded," Musgrove said in a statement.

"I had hoped and prayed that the courts would stand up for our rights, and I am disappointed. It is my sincere hope that the U.S. Supreme Court will override the federal court's decision."

In Alabama, an estimated 1,000 fans of suspended Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore turned out on the judicial building steps Thursday to hear national conservative Christian leaders denounce the monument's removal. Moore did not appear at the rally.

Alabama's Judicial Inquiry Commission suspended Moore last week after he refused to obey the order to move the monument.

Moore installed the privately funded monument in the early hours of August 1, 2001, without consulting any of the other justices on the Alabama Supreme Court.

The Rev. James Dobson, chairman of Focus on the Family, told the rally the First Amendment specifically addresses Congress and does not restrict displays like Moore's.

"They've taken those simple words and twisted them to mean something the founders had no intention of," he said. "The separation of church and state is not in the Constitution. They've had to contrive the basis of these things, and then talk about them as if they're a fact."

Dobson described the struggle over the Ten Commandments as part of a 41-year struggle that began with a 1962 Supreme Court ruling barring organized prayer in public schools and continued with rulings legalizing abortion and striking down state anti-sodomy laws.

"The foundations of America are being broken up each time the gavel of an activist judge is pounded in America," said Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council.

"The symbolism as well as the substance of this moment cannot escape us," Perkins said. "One federal judge has placed the Ten Commandments in a closet. That came after the United States Supreme Court recently welcomed everything else out of the closet."

Moore and his supporters say that the Ten Commandments are the foundation of the U.S. legal system and that forbidding the acknowledgment of the Judeo-Christian God violates the First Amendment's guarantee of free exercise of religion. (A conversation with Moore's attorney)

A lawsuit filed after the monument's installation argued the massive stone marker constituted a government endorsement of Christianity, in violation of the First Amendment. People often assembled around the monument to pray.

"We try to keep the government's hands off of religion in order to keep religion safe in this country," said Richard Cohen, general counsel of the Southern Poverty Law Center, one of the organizations that sued over the monument.

"Religion in America flourishes not because the government is involved, but because it's uninvolved, and that's the way it should be."

U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson ordered Moore to remove the monument from the rotunda by midnight August 20, but he refused.

With Thompson threatening to hold the state in contempt and fine it $5,000 a day, Moore's colleagues on the state Supreme Court unanimously overruled him and had it taken out.

Moore has asked the U.S. Supreme Court to review and overturn the order calling for the monument's removal.

His supporters also re-filed a federal lawsuit in Montgomery calling for the monument's restoration, a day after a federal judge in Mobile ruled the case was filed in the wrong venue.

For that case, Thompson met Thursday for about 10 minutes with lawyers for the state and representatives of the Christian Defense Coalition.

He agreed to study motions from both sides over the weekend and rule Tuesday on whether to dismiss the case or allow it to proceed, said Brian Chavez-Ochoa, the Christian Defense Coalition's lawyer.

Moore was a circuit judge in Etowah County, northeast of Birmingham, in the late 1990s when he fought a lawsuit seeking to remove a wooden plaque depicting the commandments from his courtroom.

The legal battle propelled him to statewide office in 2000, when the Republican jurist was elected chief justice after campaigning as the "Ten Commandments Judge."

CNN correspondent Brian Cabell contributed to this report.

 

[tweakmm]

Only in the south...

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: tweakmm
Only in the south...

You sound like you dissapprove of this. I'm not going to state my opinion on the subject for now, but there are many people that can say the same thing you just said and say that as a compliment towards the region. It all depends on who you ask, and I'm not only talking about Southerners there.

 

[SuperTool]

Pandering along.

 

[rickn]

Originally posted by: tweakmm
Only in the south...

I thought that was football

 

[CADsortaGUY]

WOW - Musgrove(Democrat) supports this? :Q I thought only rightwing nutbag Republicans would support "imposing" their views on people.

Seriously though, this will be an interesting fight to see play out in the USSC. It will go that far if the federal courts keep ruling as they have lately.

CkG

 

[DealMonkey]

I think we need to remind the south that they lost the war

 

[rickn]

you know what they say, us southerners are knee deep in....

 

[tweakmm]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I think we need to remind the south that they lost the war

That whole states rights thing can be pretty confusing ya know.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I think we need to remind the south that they lost the war

It is quite apparent that they lost that war over State's Rights, and continue to do so.

CkG

 

[DealMonkey]

I guess the big question in my mind is: Why do Christians feel the need to push their beliefs on everyone? Are they that insecure in their beliefs that they have to have monuments erected in every state building to remind themselves (and others) why they believe in God? Are Christians that incapable of seeing that the first amendment of the US Constitution protects their beliefs and allows a multitude of religions to thrive in this country? If the government remains neutral in religion and doesn't show preference of one over another, then all religions can be enjoyed equally.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I guess the big question in my mind is: Why do Christians feel the need to push their beliefs on everyone? Are they that insecure in their beliefs that they have to have monuments erected in every state building to remind themselves (and others) why they believe in God? Are Christians that incapable of seeing that the first amendment of the US Constitution protects their beliefs and allows a multitude of religions to thrive in this country? If the government remains neutral in religion and doesn't show preference of one over another, then all religions can be enjoyed equally.

Actually I think it is the other way around. They aren't trying to FORCE anything on people, they are just sick of things being taken AWAY from them. There have been tons of threads about this so I'm not going to rehash that a piece of stone with an inscription is just a rock and has NO "imposition" powers.

CkG

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Actually I think it is the other way around. They aren't trying to FORCE anything on people, they are just sick of things being taken AWAY from them. There have been tons of threads about this so I'm not going to rehash that a piece of stone with an inscription is just a rock and has NO "imposition" powers.

CkG

I know, there's been at least 10 threads on this very topic already. I find myself saying the same things over and over But tell me, because I'm genuinely interested, what are these "...things being taken AWAY from them"? I don't understand. No one is saying you can't practice your religion, are they? The bottom line in all of this is we're dealing with state property and a government building. What goes on there is representative of our government is it not?

 

[VioletAura]

If the judge had put up a statue of Budda, Shiva, or Confucius, those same people who are protesting to keep the 10 commandments monument would had dragged it out, smashed it to pieces and set it on fire. Even though some argument can be given for secular applications, it wouldn't have mattered to them. It would be easier for them to see the seperation of church and state violation if it wasn't their religion.

 

[ViRGE]

Mississippi covets neighbor's monument

Wait, doesn't the 10th commandment say that you shouldn't covet your neighbor's property?

 

[friedpie]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I guess the big question in my mind is: Why do Christians feel the need to push their beliefs on everyone? Are they that insecure in their beliefs that they have to have monuments erected in every state building to remind themselves (and others) why they believe in God? Are Christians that incapable of seeing that the first amendment of the US Constitution protects their beliefs and allows a multitude of religions to thrive in this country? If the government remains neutral in religion and doesn't show preference of one over another, then all religions can be enjoyed equally.

You sound like the insecure one. Why can't you respect the fact that our constitution allows for freedom of expression.

And when will people like you realize that the government is NOT involved in this. It's one man, not a government.

 

[tweakmm]

Originally posted by: friedpie
And when will people like you realize that the government is NOT involved in this. It's one man, not a government.

To what one man are you refering? The judge?

 

[Insane3D]

Why can't you respect the fact that our constitution allows for freedom of expression.

Why can't you understand that having a religous monument where it was gives the impression the government is endorsing said religion. The problem is not the monument per se, but where it is located. Having religous idols in a government building clearly violates the speration of church and state IMO.

Also, no one is taking away your right to pratice whatever religion you believe by moving ths monument.

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I guess the big question in my mind is: Why do Christians feel the need to push their beliefs on everyone? Are they that insecure in their beliefs that they have to have monuments erected in every state building to remind themselves (and others) why they believe in God? Are Christians that incapable of seeing that the first amendment of the US Constitution protects their beliefs and allows a multitude of religions to thrive in this country? If the government remains neutral in religion and doesn't show preference of one over another, then all religions can be enjoyed equally.

Actually I think it is the other way around. They aren't trying to FORCE anything on people, they are just sick of things being taken AWAY from them. There have been tons of threads about this so I'm not going to rehash that a piece of stone with an inscription is just a rock and has NO "imposition" powers.

CkG

If you allow the ten commandments to be displayed as these were, you'd also have to accept any public display of any religion on the whim of any judge.

 

[Insane3D]

They aren't trying to FORCE anything on people, they are just sick of things being taken AWAY from them.

Cad, how was it taken away? It was just moved. It could have been located in many other places that would not have caused a problem. Just a friendly question...




You damn fundy!!!! :Q




Disclaimer: The above statement was meant to be humorous.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: friedpie

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I guess the big question in my mind is: Why do Christians feel the need to push their beliefs on everyone? Are they that insecure in their beliefs that they have to have monuments erected in every state building to remind themselves (and others) why they believe in God? Are Christians that incapable of seeing that the first amendment of the US Constitution protects their beliefs and allows a multitude of religions to thrive in this country? If the government remains neutral in religion and doesn't show preference of one over another, then all religions can be enjoyed equally.

You sound like the insecure one. Why can't you respect the fact that our constitution allows for freedom of expression.

And when will people like you realize that the government is NOT involved in this. It's one man, not a government.

Tell the Judge to wear a button(flare, ) then. You don't need a 2+ ton rock in a government building to "express yourself"!

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Insane3D

Why can't you respect the fact that our constitution allows for freedom of expression.

Why can't you understand that having a religous monument where it was gives the impression the government is endorsing said religion. The problem is not the monument per se, but where it is located. Having religous idols in a government building clearly violates the speration of church and state IMO.

Also, no one is taking away your right to pratice whatever religion you believe by moving ths monument.

Just like having the monument there does not say "Christianity" is the only religion.

***
DM - If you can't see what I'm talking about - I'm not going to explain it in detail. It isn't a hard concept - Just look at what has happened in schools and the courts. All of the recent stuff has "removed" things People are getting fed up with Judges setting public policy by doing such things.

CkG

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I guess the big question in my mind is: Why do Christians feel the need to push their beliefs on everyone? Are they that insecure in their beliefs that they have to have monuments erected in every state building to remind themselves (and others) why they believe in God? Are Christians that incapable of seeing that the first amendment of the US Constitution protects their beliefs and allows a multitude of religions to thrive in this country? If the government remains neutral in religion and doesn't show preference of one over another, then all religions can be enjoyed equally.

Actually I think it is the other way around. They aren't trying to FORCE anything on people, they are just sick of things being taken AWAY from them. There have been tons of threads about this so I'm not going to rehash that a piece of stone with an inscription is just a rock and has NO "imposition" powers.

CkG

wrong, they do however have the compulsive need to cast themselves as victims. they are the majority, yet they feel this makes it right for them to impose religion on public ground in public institutions when i'm sure they'd object if it were for a religion not their own. which would be unlikely since they are the majority anyhow.

the fact is they are free to practice publically as long as they don't mix it with government. there are churches everywhere in those states. they can put up the 10 commandments on the church lawns.. heck they can do it to all the church lawns.

funny how this group see's neutrality in face of diversity as an ATTACK on them yet, imposing their religion on others isn't an attack on others

 

[Insane3D]

Just like having the monument there does not say "Christianity" is the only religion.

Of course it doesn't say that, but it does give the appearance that the government is endorsing that religion...whether or not it actually is. That is the problem.

If the area where the ten commandments monument was also had several other displays depicting every other religion, it would probably not be a problem because there would be no appearance of endorsement of one particular religion and/or set of beliefs.