Missouri Police Officer guns down unarmed 18 year old

[MomentsofSanity]

The 4 second pause and then 2nd round is the execution.

Can't see how the pause could be justified.

All of these shots makes it clear that the kid was not very close to the officer either.

Of course you can't. That would mean thinking outside your already drawn conclusions.

It makes you incapable of pausing and realizing it could be the kid is coming at the officer who fires. The kid pauses realizing/thinking he has been shot, then resumes his charge. And now you can see a reason for it to be justified.

As for judging distance based on audio all I can say is...... Ok?

Do I know that to be what happened? Nope. No one can tell a single thing from that audio at all as to circumstance.

 

[ivwshane]

That's just the "black mans game". Have some engage in violent riots while others call out for peace. The rioters win big, the leaders win big. All is well.

(for everyone else, this is a play on the phrase "white mans game" brought up in a separate Ferguson thread)


The problem with Obama getting involved like that, is it cements permanent legitimacy to the situation. It will not matter how the evidence plays out on what happened between Wilson and Brown, the President is on their side and that makes their side the right side.

And yes, the President is scoring political points. Might be a side benefit, not the primary objective, but he most certainly is scoring political points.

Show me an in context quote showing Obama taking any side.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I think the FBI can verify or disprove the audio recording's relevance. If its provenance holds up, then it can add to a witness' believability or destroy it.

next thing you know the NSA will show up with exact footage of the shooting taken from one of our satellites......

 

[Fern]

Saw this on another forum, don't know if it's true or not: "And as far as the reporter with the Twitter feed of those alleged 12 witnesses -- she is a crime reporter who has now been suspended from her job because of this tweet which did not meet the credibility standards of the newspaper."

If true, there goes the dozen witnesses that agree with the officer's account.

Not necessarily.

E.g., many news orgs require 2 sources before a story can be reported: The first source and then a second, independent source confirming it. It's possible she reported the story without getting an independent confirmation.

Fern

 

[Druidx]

Something else strikes me - if Brown was indeed 35 feet away, Wilson is an incredibly good shot. Usually a cop is lucky to land six of eleven at practically point blank range.

I use to see a lot of police at a range I went to, most were pretty good but I've seen a few that left me shaking my head. I've passed the same firearm qualification test most police departments use.
The test is at 3, 7, 10, 15 and 25 yards, firing from both the strong and weak hand. 3 yards is one handed, you get to steady the gun on the barricade at 15 and 25 yards.
The big difference is minimum score required in different states, some states are moving to automatically fail on a miss.

 

[spidey07]

Under stress firing at a moving target coming right for you 6/11 is damned good. Especially with a snappy .40 handgun.

Although most hits didn't hit the magic triangle you aim for to drop the threat like a sack of potatoes.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Not necessarily.

E.g., many news orgs require 2 sources before a story can be reported: The first source and then a second, independent source confirming it. It's possible she reported the story without getting an independent confirmation.

Fern

Maybe she should have checked with 'Josie' first...

 

[cubby1223]

Show me an in context quote showing Obama taking any side.

Learn to read. I never said Obama has publicly come out in support of one side. What I said was people who want to believe are believing the President is on their side due to his, and the executive branch's decisions & actions during this time period.

President Obama has been learning from past situations not to make direct statements:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZYsW_PxWAM


If I ask you to provide an honest question, do you believe President Obama is on Brown's side, on Wilson's side, or on neither's side, how do you suppose you would honestly answer that question?

Another Obama press conference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_4YWNYeXk
(warning, horrible youtube commentary below the video by the scum of the country)

 

[LegendKiller]

Black leaders, including Obama, have gotten involved for a couple of reasons, first to give this general issue some national attention (I'm referring to police injustice), and to keep the situation calm. I have yet to see any black leader not call for a peaceful protest, have you?

To think this is to score political points is ridiculous and disgusting. If you want to see politicians using situations for political purposes I'll be happy to show you what that looks like.

You just simply cannot be this naive.

They don't give a shit about police injustice unless it is a black man getting facing such "injustice" (as yet to be seen). Furthermore, it didn't stop Obama from stepping into the shitpile *way* before the facts were in, something a lawyer shouldn't do.

Calm? You think crying for "no justice, no peace" and demanding "justice" is keeping things calm? Do you think sainting Brown is keeping things calm? No, keeping things calm would be to tell people to go home and wait for all of the facts to come out.

This whole thing is about political points, why do you think Sharpton and Jackson and Crump run to each one of these and demand Obama or others to take action? Do you really think Holder went there as *just* the AG? No, he went there as a black man, as he said, then he threw in something about discrimination, to score points.

 

[Bird222]

Possibility 3

Brown charged the officer who fires. Officer ceases fire but Brown rallies and continues causing the second volley.

That's not the only possible scenario, some of which may go for or either party. Everything will require explanation, but just a pattern of fire means little.

Was Brown supposed to have a mental problem? Who keeps charging toward somebody shooting at them?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

You just simply cannot be this naive.



They don't give a shit about police injustice unless it is a black man getting facing such "injustice" (as yet to be seen). Furthermore, it didn't stop Obama from stepping into the shitpile *way* before the facts were in, something a lawyer shouldn't do.



Calm? You think crying for "no justice, no peace" and demanding "justice" is keeping things calm? Do you think sainting Brown is keeping things calm? No, keeping things calm would be to tell people to go home and wait for all of the facts to come out.



This whole thing is about political points, why do you think Sharpton and Jackson and Crump run to each one of these and demand Obama or others to take action? Do you really think Holder went there as *just* the AG? No, he went there as a black man, as he said, then he threw in something about discrimination, to score points.

Exactly right. This is nothing more than a typical political charade from our Dear Leader.

 

[ivwshane]

Learn to read. I never said Obama has publicly come out in support of one side. What I said was people who want to believe are believing the President is on their side due to his, and the executive branch's decisions & actions during this time period.

President Obama has been learning from past situations not to make direct statements:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZYsW_PxWAM


If I ask you to provide an honest question, do you believe President Obama is on Brown's side, on Wilson's side, or on neither's side, how do you suppose you would honestly answer that question?

Another Obama press conference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_4YWNYeXk
(warning, horrible youtube commentary below the video by the scum of the country)

Ok, I guess the only people that believe Obama has picked a side are the idiots directly below your post. My mistake.

 

[Ackmed]

Either way it's crazy that the officer almost had to empty his sidearm to stop the guy, he must have barely passed his shooting test. Very lucky no bystanders were hit.

Spoken like someone who has never actually fired a weapon at anyone.

 

[HomerJS]

You just simply cannot be this naive.

They don't give a shit about police injustice unless it is a black man getting facing such "injustice" (as yet to be seen). Furthermore, it didn't stop Obama from stepping into the shitpile *way* before the facts were in, something a lawyer shouldn't do.

Calm? You think crying for "no justice, no peace" and demanding "justice" is keeping things calm? Do you think sainting Brown is keeping things calm? No, keeping things calm would be to tell people to go home and wait for all of the facts to come out.

This whole thing is about political points, why do you think Sharpton and Jackson and Crump run to each one of these and demand Obama or others to take action? Do you really think Holder went there as *just* the AG? No, he went there as a black man, as he said, then he threw in something about discrimination, to score points.

Thank goodness the FBI are involved. You honestly think that bunch of local cops could handle analyzing the gunshot audio?? Assuming authentic.

 

[Oldgamer]

Thank goodness the FBI are involved. You honestly think that bunch of local cops could handle analyzing the gunshot audio?? Assuming authentic.

Agreed, and it WAS the FBI who uncovered and enhanced the audio in the first place. They are working on getting more info. Looks like they are doing their job thoroughly.

 

[spidey07]

All hail Obama and holder.

You fucks are beyond insane.

This was a good shoot. All indications are good shoot.

Thug attacks cop after robbing store?

Or

Murderous white boy guns down angel who was doing nary a thing wrong?

99 percent likelyhood of the previous. Unless you're racist of course. Ignorant to fact thuth and reality.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Spoken like someone who has never actually fired a weapon at anyone.

So tell us most knowledgeable one why the officer had to fire so many shots.....just for shits and grins...

 

[DrPizza]

So if he was hit by 6 bullets, which of the 11 shots were hits? If the first 3 or 4 were misses, that would explain the 2nd volley, wouldn't it??

Either way it's crazy that the officer almost had to empty his sidearm to stop the guy, he must have barely passed his shooting test. Very lucky no bystanders were hit.

So tell us most knowledgeable one why the officer had to fire so many shots.....just for shits and grins...

Well, since no one knows anything and we're all just speculating, how's this: the officer was attacked at his car and punched in the face. Brown reaches to grab the officer's gun. The officer shoots, landing one bullet. Dazed and disoriented, the officer continues shooting, trying to hit the suspect, without really comprehending that the suspect is fleeing. Officer quickly gets out of car. Brown, not being mortally wounded, turns and faces officer, maybe even puts his hands up. Being stupid and having watched too many movies like The Matrix, Brown incorrectly realizes, "you're empty." That's the only time they stop shooting in movies. Believing the officer to now be defenseless, Brown charges the officer. The officer fires 4 more times, connecting each time.

Making the majority of witnesses correct to a certain degree.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I haven't read up on psychological studies of those who do this, but it happens. Do you have any particular, specific information that without doubt rules this out as a possibility, some infallible mechanism which can tell from a pattern of shots that this or that thing happened? Well, no you don't. I can't say what any of it means and I'll wager that I've at least as good a comprehension of reactions in combat situations as you have. Again if you can demonstrate your method of determination with guaranteed precision we'd love to see it.

 

[DrPizza]

I haven't read up on psychological studies of those who do this, but it happens. Do you have any particular, specific information that without doubt rules this out as a possibility, some infallible mechanism which can tell from a pattern of shots that this or that thing happened? Well, no you don't. I can't say what any of it means and I'll wager that I've at least as good a comprehension of reactions in combat situations as you have. Again if you can demonstrate your method of determination with guaranteed precision we'd love to see it.

Who? Me? I was completely winging it, based on the various rumors and snippets of interviews I've seen the few times I watched the news.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So tell us most knowledgeable one why the officer had to fire so many shots.....just for shits and grins...

Usually I get along with you and while I may not agree in all cases at least I can see your point.

This is not the case here. You don't know "shits and grins" because there has been no convincing evidence shown either in favor of Brown or Wilson. I will not say that Wilson was right for shooting Brown because I cannot know. I will not say that Wilson was wrong for shooting Brown because I cannot know. Note the carefully selected words "cannot know", but you have pronounced Wilson's guilt with no more certain knowledge than I have. While I doubt it matters to you I'm quite disappointed to find someone who normally can provide reasonable answers so full of resentment, so much that you've convicted without anything like sufficient evidence.

If you want to hate the man so be it, but hanging someone because one thinks a person should be guilty is the moral equivalent of lynching. It does not do you credit. Please tell me to screw myself if you wish, a great many here would, but at least think about it. Others are too bloodthirsty. I didn't think that would be the case with you.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Who? Me? I was completely winging it, based on the various rumors and snippets of interviews I've seen the few times I watched the news.

No, I was responding to Bird

Was Brown supposed to have a mental problem? Who keeps charging toward somebody shooting at them?

who was questioning my statement that Brown might have been charging, the shots stopped, then resumed when Brown restarted or continued coming at Wilson. QueBert had given only two possibilities and of course they had Wilson as the demon. I presented one of perhaps several scenarios which have not been ruled in or out.

Quoting fail on my part.

 

[spidey07]

I resort to my common sense test. It's like a gosh damned super power that can predict the future and the past.

 

[QueBert]

QueBert had given only two possibilities and of course they had Wilson as the demon. I presented one of perhaps several scenarios which have not been ruled in or out.

When 1 person shoots another dead imho proving it was justified is 100% on the shooter and I'll side with the person who's dead every time until facts prove otherwise. I don't care if they're a cop, that shouldn't change things. Until I see evidence that's not from Fox News or some "source" that nobody even knows if they're real. Yeah Wilson is wrong here. You shouldn't be able to kill someone and expect a "well they were charging at me" excuse to work without evidence to corroborate it. If new facts comes out that proves it was a good shot I will change my view here. And by facts I mean evidence not a story from someone who saw something. So as it stands, my stance was formed based off one person dead and the other seemingly not having any proof of their claims. Claims means nothing to me.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I resort to my common sense test. It's like a gosh damned super power that can predict the future and the past.

The problem with common sense is that it is never sufficient in situations where criminal intent and actions need to be factually established, especially where there is a situation like this. Brown was wrongly killed or he was not. If the former is true then he deserves justice. If not then then Wilson needs to be exonerated of wrong doing. "Common sense" does not and should not be substitution for investigation. I make a very clear distinction between these three things- There's what I think, there's what I know, and there's what I believe. The only correct approach to this problem is to know. Acting on thinking or believing someone is guilty? That way leads to real injustice.