A reasonable take on the situation and I agree 100%.So I feel like the majority of the people in this thread are saying the same thing...we don't know the answers, only real evidence will provide the truth, in the mean time here is a possible scenario of events, poke holes in it.
That's the position I've taken, that's the position Jedi has, I even think terry has that view, as does hayabusa, and a few others like cubby. There are a few that seem to have already made a judgement, spidey comes to mind.
Does everyone agree with my conclusion? More importantly does everyone feel the same way hayabusa feels? Feel free to respond so everyone knows where you stand.
If so, can we simply ignore the trolls (aka spidey, spatially, and whoever else), and all agree that at this point we are simply trying to figure out what happened based on the info we do have. Can we agree that nothing anyone posts is a fact and should not be taken as a fact (unless it is a universally accepted fact) and that we take the posts as merely a suggestion of possibility and not as statements of supporting said suggestions?
Can we preface posts where we are about to propose a possibility of what transpired with the words, "in my opinion"? Because reading many of the posts here it certainly seems like people are trying to state something as fact when they are really just trying come up with an educated guess as to what happened (you can see this in posts by terry and hayabusa where they had to clarify themselves).
the audio recording was only 12 seconds longs.....
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_bda1a2f4-6727-50a9-b154-94e0cb2ff39f.html
Good quality video. Brown walks up to the counter, immediately places his hands behind his back, clearly showing there is nothing in his hands. Never once in that video does Brown reach into his pocket to pull out a form of payment. Brown walked out with a handful of merchandise that he never paid for.
Brown stole those products. That question is settled.
You don't know insane, yet!
HomerJS makes a bad posting career move.
Perknose
Forum Director
?? What does this mean? The person is black_spidey! What would that have to do with HomerJS?
Are you that stupid??? What does this mean? The person is black_spidey! What would that have to do with HomerJS?
It means HomerJS created a new username and posted under it. Mods can verify posters IP address.
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/08/us/ferguson-brown-timeline/?hpt=us_mid
Even Freeman Bosley, the lawyer for Dorian Johnson says it was a "shoplifting situation."
I'm sure this may have been brought up in the 1000's of posts before, but did anyone find DJ's various TV interviews a bit confusing?
He states that when Wilson tried to open the door that they were only 2 inches away from the car, and it bounced back at Wilson. Wilson then immediately reaches up out of the car window (vertically, I'm assuming since they were only inches away), and grabs the 6'4-5" Brown by the throat to pull him down into the car? Is he Plastic-Man?
He says that they struggled a bit, trying to pull Brown into the car, and pulls his gun and just shoots him. In one interview DJ says they ran and Wilson got out of the car and kept shooting. In another interview, he says Wilson sat in the car for 2-3 minutes while they ran, then got out of the car.
I'm sure this may have been brought up in the 1000's of posts before, but did anyone find DJ's various TV interviews a bit confusing?
He states that when Wilson tried to open the door that they were only 2 inches away from the car, and it bounced back at Wilson. Wilson then immediately reaches up out of the car window (vertically, I'm assuming since they were only inches away), and grabs the 6'4-5" Brown by the throat to pull him down into the car? Is he Plastic-Man?
He says that they struggled a bit, trying to pull Brown into the car, and pulls his gun and just shoots him. In one interview DJ says they ran and Wilson got out of the car and kept shooting. In another interview, he says Wilson sat in the car for 2-3 minutes while they ran, then got out of the car.
Tiffany Mitchell
Mitchells and Johnsons versions of events match up from that point on. A shot was fired, and Brown broke away and started to run down the street away from the police car. Mitchell said the officer then got out of his vehicle and started to pursue Brown, all the while shooting at him.
Michaels body jerked as if he were hit, Mitchell said. Then he turns around and put his hands up, and the officer continued to walk up on him and shoot him, until he goes all the way down to the ground.
Piaget Crenshaw
[Brown] put his arm up to let them know that he was compliant and that he was unarmed, and they shot him twice more, and he fell to the ground and died.
I'm sure this may have been brought up in the 1000's of posts before, but did anyone find DJ's various TV interviews a bit confusing?
He states that when Wilson tried to open the door that they were only 2 inches away from the car, and it bounced back at Wilson. Wilson then immediately reaches up out of the car window (vertically, I'm assuming since they were only inches away), and grabs the 6'4-5" Brown by the throat to pull him down into the car? Is he Plastic-Man?
He says that they struggled a bit, trying to pull Brown into the car, and pulls his gun and just shoots him. In one interview DJ says they ran and Wilson got out of the car and kept shooting. In another interview, he says Wilson sat in the car for 2-3 minutes while they ran, then got out of the car.
Weird article.http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/08/us/ferguson-brown-timeline/?hpt=us_mid
Even Freeman Bosley, the lawyer for Dorian Johnson says it was a "shoplifting situation."
If one assumes that Brown was struck in the eye while leaning into the car, then that explains Johnson's claim that Brown was struck in the chest (running, he might have noticed the second entry wound closer to his eye level but missed the eye entry and chin exit.) Alternately, Brown could have been attempting to assume the fetal position - although one would expect his arms to be protecting his head in that case - so that both head wounds occurred in the final volley. And one final wild-eyed guess, possibly the MEs were wrong; possibly Brown was struck in the chest at the car with a slug that traveled into his abdomen, and struck again in the final volley with the eye shot that exited his chin and either missed his body or entered his arm.Michael Brady says he saw the end of the confrontation: "By the time I gets outside, he's already turned around, facing the officer. He's balled up, he had his arms under his stomach and he was halfway down, like he was going down, and the officer lets out three or four shots at him."
Haven't seen any interviews, but yeah, that's obviously bullshit. Wilson could have grabbed Brown's arm though, attempting to detain him, at which point Brown hits him and Wilson draws and fires. Or Brown could have been leaned into the car striking Wilson or attempting to get his gun as alleged - although that last bit seems less likely to me as even a 6'-4" guy couldn't expect to easily grab a gun on the officer's right hip.I'm sure this may have been brought up in the 1000's of posts before, but did anyone find DJ's various TV interviews a bit confusing?
He states that when Wilson tried to open the door that they were only 2 inches away from the car, and it bounced back at Wilson. Wilson then immediately reaches up out of the car window (vertically, I'm assuming since they were only inches away), and grabs the 6'4-5" Brown by the throat to pull him down into the car? Is he Plastic-Man?
He says that they struggled a bit, trying to pull Brown into the car, and pulls his gun and just shoots him. In one interview DJ says they ran and Wilson got out of the car and kept shooting. In another interview, he says Wilson sat in the car for 2-3 minutes while they ran, then got out of the car.
A lot of stuff could of happened between the time Wilson pulled up and Brown was shot to death. If we remove reason and accountability then the sky is the limit.
This thread reveals clearly that some folks are reasonable with known information and some folks are not. The general and largest reason for this appears to be because of races involved. Also gun rights, and personal experiences, and multitude of others, largest though appears to be race based. A ton of discussion on this may find and expose areas here that need attention across the country before tensions erupt again down the line.
I wouldn't for a moment believe the truth here of this situation (murder/justified shooting) is going to solve the deep seated issues exposed by this situation. It'll take a lot more than the truth exposed.
Awareness is responsibility though, so as the country watches, as intelligent folks see what's being exposed, can't help but see there is a growing awareness and call to find solutions. This is what I think Obama and Holder are trying to bring attention to when speaking on the issue, though that is a difficult task and easy to misunderstood. I don't think it is appropriate for Holder to stand with a community clearly against Wilson's side of the story before facts come out, though this behavior is independent of what I consider his justified portion of race relation he speaks on. I think that if not careful it undermines appropriate inroads that can be made after outbursts highlight a countrywide awareness of the issue.
In a crude way the shooting acts as a light source in an otherwise dark area, even if folks knew the area was what it was, there is now a larger awareness. Undeniably harder to ignore now.
In that there is a possibility/likelihood of improving underprivileged poor black areas in the country. TM didn't do it IMO, though the discussion was so vitriolic there I don't think there was much of a chance. If media does a decent job (honestly very unlikely) there is possibility of unity here instead of a deepening divide.
Seems this thread could be a small sign of that unity, like a proof of concept.
So I feel like the majority of the people in this thread are saying the same thing...we don't know the answers, only real evidence will provide the truth, in the mean time here is a possible scenario of events, poke holes in it.
That's the position I've taken, that's the position Jedi has, I even think terry has that view, as does hayabusa, and a few others like cubby. There are a few that seem to have already made a judgement, spidey comes to mind.
Does everyone agree with my conclusion? More importantly does everyone feel the same way hayabusa feels? Feel free to respond so everyone knows where you stand.
If so, can we simply ignore the trolls (aka spidey, spatially, and whoever else), and all agree that at this point we are simply trying to figure out what happened based on the info we do have. Can we agree that nothing anyone posts is a fact and should not be taken as a fact (unless it is a universally accepted fact) and that we take the posts as merely a suggestion of possibility and not as statements of supporting said suggestions?
Can we preface posts where we are about to propose a possibility of what transpired with the words, "in my opinion"? Because reading many of the posts here it certainly seems like people are trying to state something as fact when they are really just trying come up with an educated guess as to what happened (you can see this in posts by terry and hayabusa where they had to clarify themselves).
Some reports coming out that the audio may be fake. Certainly sounds like it to me.
If the evidence is fake then there should be accountability for this falsification.
If the evidence is fake then there should be accountability for this falsification.
Some reports coming out that the audio may be fake. Certainly sounds like it to me.