MLB Mvp winner Ryan Braun's appeal successful, drug penalty overturned

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Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
91
Braun just spoke to the media, he's answering questions now. Long statement, seemed very honest, and the way he laid out the facts it does sound like the process was botched. I'm changing my opinion, I think he's actually innocent, or a pathological liar. Actual innocence is more likely, so I'll stick with that.

What did he say caused the positive test?
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,846
8,447
136
What did he say caused the positive test?

No explanation. Just that it was a "fatally flawed" process and that how can it be positive it was his sample after a 44 hour wait. Right. The collector is the one that was sporting a 20-1 ratio.
 
May 13, 2009
12,333
612
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Braun just spoke to the media, he's answering questions now. Long statement, seemed very honest, and the way he laid out the facts it does sound like the process was botched. I'm changing my opinion, I think he's actually innocent, or a pathological liar. Actual innocence is more likely, so I'll stick with that.

Selling a bridge. Interested?
 

Skiddex

Golden Member
May 17, 2001
1,380
0
76
What did he say caused the positive test?

rumor floating around was that he has the herp. i guess some of the medications you take for that have synthetic testosterone and the shit storm started when the results got leaked before they could clear it through his medical team. i can understand why he would go through an appeals process to not make herpes public knowledge.
 

wheresmybacon

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2004
3,899
0
76
Selling a bridge. Interested?

I know right? Nothing, absolutely nothing, was stated detailing how his test was astronomically high. Hmmm...why is that? Maybe because it can't be refuted and his attorneys know the arbitrator will laugh at them if they try to argue it.

It was his piss. As stated earlier in the thread, Mike Golic had a source confirm that Braun's camp rescinded their offer to take a DNA test once MLB agreed, in order to prove the donor's identity.

The only reason he's not suspended is the chain of custody was in question, and they found the perfect arbitrator who bought that argument. I actually agree with the arbitrator, but I absolutely disagree with anyone who thinks Braun is clean.
 

sjwaste

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
8,760
12
81
What did he say caused the positive test?

Unsure. He said the collector also collected samples from other players at the same time. Instead of bringing them right to Fedex, he took them home and left them out for 44 hrs.

The way the process works, the collector is the only guy who knows whose sample belongs to who - they assign a number, and it goes to Fedex and the lab that way.

For me, that's enough to cast doubt. It also suggests the collector is also the guy that leaked the news, as he was one of the few that could match the sample to the name.
 

oogabooga

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2003
7,806
3
81
The only reason he's not suspended is the chain of custody was in question, and they found the perfect arbitrator who bought that argument. I actually agree with the arbitrator, but I absolutely disagree with anyone who thinks Braun is clean.

You agree with the Arbitrator's opinion that the chain of custody got botched but you don't think Braun is clean? Is this from believing he's guilty and that he got off on a "technicality" or is it a "he's not dirty, but he's not proven clean" thing.

Curious if you thought he was guilty pre-positive test?

Personally, Braun's clean in my mind, if some employeer made me take a drug test and had the sample sitting around for 44 hours and told me I couldn't work for them because it tested positive I'd be pretty livid.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,929
142
106
Unsure. He said the collector also collected samples from other players at the same time. Instead of bringing them right to Fedex, he took them home and left them out for 44 hrs.

The way the process works, the collector is the only guy who knows whose sample belongs to who - they assign a number, and it goes to Fedex and the lab that way.

For me, that's enough to cast doubt. It also suggests the collector is also the guy that leaked the news, as he was one of the few that could match the sample to the name.

Yes, there is doubt but the only doubt you can claim is that the collector switched the samples, because there was no way the original could have been tampered with since it was sealed with Braun as a witness. So if you think the collector had a motive to switch Braun's samples, then fair enough. However, this falls under crazy conspiracy theory and why would the collector risk his livelihood/reputation unless he was paid off?

If Braun can keep up his production to similar career baselines in the next couple of years, then I'll believe him. But until then, the only way you can believe he isn't guilty is if you believe in a conspiracy theory sample switch, which is possible but highly unlikely.
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
91
The more I read, the more Braun's argument sounds full of sh!t.

The inspector did the tests on Saturday, didn't finish his rounds until it was too late to ship, and had to wait until Monday to ship it. Protocol since 2005 when these began was for the agent to store them at home in a safe place, which he did in his cool basement. He's done >600 tests since '05.

And all 3 "tamper proof seals" were completely in tact.

Conclusion: Seriously...this was thrown out?? LOL
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,856
1,048
126
Braun just spoke to the media, he's answering questions now. Long statement, seemed very honest, and the way he laid out the facts it does sound like the process was botched. I'm changing my opinion, I think he's actually innocent, or a pathological liar. Actual innocence is more likely, so I'll stick with that.

didn't McGwire (or was it Clemens) outright claim in court they did not use steroids? Too much at stake for these players... I could lie like that too.

BTW, Bill Clinton did not have sexual relations with that woman either.
 
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Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,856
4,974
126
Do people think that the test showing THREE TIMES higher levels than ever recorded doesn't throw a red flag into the equation?

Braun's numbers have been nothing but consistent since his college and MLB days. To think that he has skirted around 25+ tests since he's been in the league is a bit of a stretch I'd think.
 

unokitty

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2012
3,346
1
0
He failed the drug test. He didn't even contest that he failed.

He contested the way the samples were handled. The samples were handled the way all of the previous samples taken during a week end were handled. Until he failed, neither he, nor anyone else in MLB had any problems with the process.

There is no allegation that his sample was tampered with...

He can say what ever he wants. The physical evidence is clear.

He cheated.

What is it they say in law school? If you can't contest the facts, contest the process.

Science says he cheated. His lawyer says that the process was flawed.

I know which one I believe.

Uno
 

dbk

Lifer
Apr 23, 2004
17,694
10
81
The more I read, the more Braun's argument sounds full of sh!t.

The inspector did the tests on Saturday, didn't finish his rounds until it was too late to ship, and had to wait until Monday to ship it. Protocol since 2005 when these began was for the agent to store them at home in a safe place, which he did in his cool basement. He's done >600 tests since '05.

And all 3 "tamper proof seals" were completely in tact.

Conclusion: Seriously...this was thrown out?? LOL

I agree.. Braun got really lucky here.. I'll never see him the same way as before. There seems to be a disagreement on if there actually time left for the collector to ship the samples out same day based on Braun and the collector's statements. hmmm
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
91
I agree.. Braun got really lucky here.. I'll never see him the same way as before. There seems to be a disagreement on if there actually time left for the collector to ship the samples out same day based on Braun and the collector's statements. hmmm

Btw here's the article I was referring to.

quotes extracted:

"This situation has caused great emotional distress for me and my family. I have worked hard my entire life, have performed my job duties with integrity and professionalism, and have done so with respect to this matter and all other collections in which I have participated," Laurenzi said, directing all further requests for comment to his lawyer.

"Given the lateness of the hour that I completed my collections, there was no FedEx office located within 50 miles of Miller Park that would ship packages that day or Sunday. Therefore, the earliest that the specimens could be shipped was Monday, October 3," Laurenzi said.

"In that circumstance, CDT has instructed collectors since I began in 2005 that they should safeguard the samples in their homes until FedEx is able to immediately ship the sample to the laboratory, rather than having the samples sit for one day or more at a local FedEx office," Laurenzi said in the statement.

Laurenzi said in the statement that he stored the samples in a "FedEx Clinic Pack in a Rubbermaid container in my office which is located in my basement. My basement office is sufficiently cool to store urine samples."

He added: "The protocol has been in place since 2005 when I started with CDT and there have been other occasions when I have had to store samples in my home for at least one day, all without incident."

Laurenzi said he has been a collector for Comprehensive Drug Testing since 2005, conducting more than 600 collections since then, in addition to postseason collections for five major league teams.

"I followed the same procedure in collecting Mr. Braun's sample as I did in the hundreds of other samples I collected under the program," Laurenzi said of his collection of Braun's urine samples on Oct. 1.

"I sealed the bottles containing Mr. Braun's A and B samples with specially numbered, tamper-resistant seals, and Mr. Braun signed a form certifying, among other things, that the specimens were capped and sealed in his presence and that the specimen identification numbers on the top of the form matched those on the seals."
 

paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
6,517
280
126
www.the-teh.com
Unsure. He said the collector also collected samples from other players at the same time. Instead of bringing them right to Fedex, he took them home and left them out for 44 hrs.

The way the process works, the collector is the only guy who knows whose sample belongs to who - they assign a number, and it goes to Fedex and the lab that way.

For me, that's enough to cast doubt. It also suggests the collector is also the guy that leaked the news, as he was one of the few that could match the sample to the name.

From what Mike Francesa said on his show yesterday the player signs the tamper proof label that goes on his test on both the inner and outer packaging. He also said the MLB said none of the seals were broken out of two tests (4 seals) when received at the lab. So unless the collector knows how to tamper with the tamper proof seals they were Braun's.
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
He failed the drug test. He didn't even contest that he failed.

He contested the way the samples were handled. The samples were handled the way all of the previous samples taken during a week end were handled. Until he failed, neither he, nor anyone else in MLB had any problems with the process.

There is no allegation that his sample was tampered with...

He can say what ever he wants. The physical evidence is clear.

He cheated.

What is it they say in law school? If you can't contest the facts, contest the process.

Science says he cheated. His lawyer says that the process was flawed.

I know which one I believe.

Uno
It's not any different than a criminal trial getting thrown out because someone screwed up the chain of custody. If you are going to move forward in a case like this you have to have your ducks in a row because there so much on the line.
 

BrokenVisage

Lifer
Jan 29, 2005
24,770
12
81
What a bs conclusion imo, lol.

Exactly. The entire article pretty much hindges on that irrelevant, speculative point, and there's still the possibility the Braun's side backed off DNA submission when the MLB supposedly changed it's mind according to other sources.
 
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a123456

Senior member
Oct 26, 2006
885
0
0
Two things at work here. If the process was screwed up, I agree that he shouldn't get a suspension and the rest.

However, as a fan, especially since he never tried to contest the positive result and refused the DNA verification, then I'm on the side that he probably took something. We'll see if he suddenly drops to 1/2 the HRs this season, gets more injury prone, drops his average 50 points or anything else like that. If he keeps the same or similar production for the next 5+ years, then I'm willing to allow that he's clean since from now on, I bet he gets more testing than usual.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,856
4,974
126
Two things at work here. If the process was screwed up, I agree that he shouldn't get a suspension and the rest.

However, as a fan, especially since he never tried to contest the positive result and refused the DNA verification, then I'm on the side that he probably took something. We'll see if he suddenly drops to 1/2 the HRs this season, gets more injury prone, drops his average 50 points or anything else like that. If he keeps the same or similar production for the next 5+ years, then I'm willing to allow that he's clean since from now on, I bet he gets more testing than usual.

He, and his counsel knows that it would be IMPOSSIBLE to prove innocence in taking any PEDs. Everyone knows this. So to get teh suspension lifted, as any good counsel would do, is to go to the "most sure route" which, in this case, is the failure to follow protocol. And it worked.

While Braun has been steadfast in claiming innocence in taking PEDs, obviously all you can do is take his word for it, or not. Because it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to prove you did not do something of this nature.

I still hinge my belief (I admit it is biased being a Brewer and Braun fan) on the fact the results were THREE TIMES higher than any other recorded positive result. You get a data point on a graph like that when doing experiments and you either throw it out as an anomaly or you retest to see if it was true. He was retested and it was negative.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,856
4,974
126
Two things at work here. If the process was screwed up, I agree that he shouldn't get a suspension and the rest.

However, as a fan, especially since he never tried to contest the positive result and refused the DNA verification, then I'm on the side that he probably took something. We'll see if he suddenly drops to 1/2 the HRs this season, gets more injury prone, drops his average 50 points or anything else like that. If he keeps the same or similar production for the next 5+ years, then I'm willing to allow that he's clean since from now on, I bet he gets more testing than usual.

his stats have been nothing but consistent since he came to the majors. to assume that he has been taking PEDs of some nature his entire professional career and somehow skirting 25+ tests all this time is quite a stretch IMO. What MAY cause his stats to drop this year is not having Fielder batting behind him in the lineup. THAT is going to be the biggest stat changer for Braun and may be quite significant as he is going to end up the #4 hitter this year. a BIG change for him. He's always had Fielder protecting his spot in the line up.
 

BrokenVisage

Lifer
Jan 29, 2005
24,770
12
81
I still hinge my belief (I admit it is biased being a Brewer and Braun fan) on the fact the results were THREE TIMES higher than any other recorded positive result. You get a data point on a graph like that when doing experiments and you either throw it out as an anomaly or you retest to see if it was true. He was retested and it was negative.

1. Olympic athletes have tested as high as 100/1 in the past, Braun was 20/1.

2. He was retested almost THREE WEEKS after his first test. If he was able to pass 25 times before I'm sure three weeks is more than enough time to mask/cleanse any substances.

Got nothing against the guy and even now I wish he was a Phillie, but he deserves all the speculation against him he gets for winning his appeal on a non-tampering technicality AND throwing the urine collecter under the bus.
 
Last edited:
May 13, 2009
12,333
612
126
He, and his counsel knows that it would be IMPOSSIBLE to prove innocence in taking any PEDs. Everyone knows this. So to get teh suspension lifted, as any good counsel would do, is to go to the "most sure route" which, in this case, is the failure to follow protocol. And it worked.

While Braun has been steadfast in claiming innocence in taking PEDs, obviously all you can do is take his word for it, or not. Because it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to prove you did not do something of this nature.

I still hinge my belief (I admit it is biased being a Brewer and Braun fan) on the fact the results were THREE TIMES higher than any other recorded positive result. You get a data point on a graph like that when doing experiments and you either throw it out as an anomaly or you retest to see if it was true. He was retested and it was negative.

Sure... A testesterone level that makes cycling teams jealous is an anomaly. lol
 
May 13, 2009
12,333
612
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1. Olympic athletes have tested as high as 100/1 in the past, Braun was 20/1.

2. He was retested almost THREE WEEKS after his first test. If he was able to pass 25 times before I'm sure three weeks is more than enough time to mask/cleanse any substances.

Got nothing against the guy and even now I wish he was a Phillie, but he deserves all the speculation against him he gets for winning his appeal on a non-tampering technicality AND throwing the urine collecter under the bus.

Yeah this was a huge douchebag move. Throw a hard working family man under the bus just cause you got busted. He should be ashamed of himself.
 
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