[MMO] Rift - Discussion

[SunnyD]

I said the GAME IS USING 100%, not that both cores are pegged at 2.4ghz.

Aside from OS overhead etc, THE GAME is using virtually 100% of both 2.4ghz cores, and that adds up to an effective 4.8ghz. The game would run the same on a single core at 4.8ghz.

You sound like a guy who just took a computer science class and learned that a 2.4ghz processor runs at 2.4ghz and are trying really hard to impress everybody with your "expert knowledge". Yes, I know that the actual processor clock is 2.4ghz. Everybody knows a dual core 2.4ghz CPU runs at 2.4ghz. I get it, you have Asperger's and feel the need to be a "little expert".

The fact is, this is a game on ye olde Warhammer Online engine, it doesn't need to run AI locally, and it doesn't seem to be doing any magical advanced physics calculations. So why does it need that much processing power? Why is it that other MMOs like WoW don't need that much horsepower?

I have a son with Asperger's, and you sir are an asshole for even trying to make the comparison. I'm have no need to be an expert, but I know fallacies when I see them. Go back and do your research before you compare apples to oranges. This topic has been beaten to death over the years since multicore processors have been released, and one would think that on a tech forum you would have tripped over that argument at least once. My apologies to you if you haven't - I'll forgive your lack of knowledge in that regard.

Now, to point out a few other things, Rift doesn't use Warhammer's engine. Rift uses Gamebryo, which just happens to be the same base engine that Warhammer used. Both have been heavily modified to suit their own needs. Both were done by two different companies. As far as the remainder, unless you were on the development team, you're not qualified to discuss what it is or isn't doing behind the scenes to warrant (or not) the CPU usage. I'm not sure if you may or may not recall, but World of Warcraft when released was extremely CPU bound as well. You may want to take your "findings" with a huge grain of salt.

The funny thing about healers were they were the best duelists in midgard. Once a melee character ran out of endo, and used his endo pot he was a slightly better hitting healer that couldnt heal himself. I lost to a healer in our guild on my warrior. It took over 15 mins but he finally killed me lol I was out of endo within 35 seconds and had him down to about 15% health. Then the pain started for me as he killed me with 10000 cuts.

Yes, that was the biggest thing that disappointed me as a healer - absolutely zero attack skills that could be used. Thankfully I had aug and procs to compensate, but it was still slow.

 

[coloumb]

I like my "shaman" Cleric - Sentinel [for the healing], Shaman [main], Druid [AP + crit chance + 2nd heal + stun mob for 10 seconds]. With +30 focus at level 38 - single mobs are pretty much dead within 10 seconds and multiple mobs are a piece of cake if "Rage of the North" is triggered. Though people have reported that melee dps clerics start to suck beyond level 40 due to the mobs hitting a lot harder - I may end up changing over to a "Shadow Priest" build [Cabalist/Inquisitor/xxx] or a "Protection Pally" build [Justicar/XX/XX].

One problem this game does have is terrible imbalance between lower level "elite" mobs and how hard they hit. My level 37 cleric was beaten down and destroyed by a level 27 elite rift mob [13k health] - looked like Rogue spec - constantly spamming 350-400 dps and never missing. Similar thing happened in beta - pack of 5 level 13 elite mobs literally whittled down my clerics health to zero in about 3 seconds.

 

[JoshGuru7]

Though people have reported that melee dps clerics start to suck beyond level 40 due to the mobs hitting a lot harder - I may end up changing over to a "Shadow Priest" build [Cabalist/Inquisitor/xxx] or a "Protection Pally" build [Justicar/XX/XX].

You may want to look into a Druid/Justicar build which I switched to about your level for survivability. The damage is not quite as good but it's close, since your Satyr gives +15% melee damage and traited eruption of life compensates for some of the missing shaman burst. Survivability is 10x better since you're building convictions with most of your melee skills for self healing and your Satyr pulls aggro off you pretty quick when you hit Rage of the Fae.

The only real catch is if you start soloing in very crowded areas, as lots of the 41+ mobs have knockback abilities and your Satyr insists on flanking which means it gets tossed into adds regardless of how you position yourself. For these situations I stuck with the same build but brought out the greater faerie and turned off it's ranged attack so it only spams heals. And like Shammy/Druid you have two mana regen on hit abilities with Justi/Druid, so there's never any downtime.

 

[Throckmorton]

I have a son with Asperger's, and you sir are an asshole for even trying to make the comparison. I'm have no need to be an expert, but I know fallacies when I see them. Go back and do your research before you compare apples to oranges. This topic has been beaten to death over the years since multicore processors have been released, and one would think that on a tech forum you would have tripped over that argument at least once. My apologies to you if you haven't - I'll forgive your lack of knowledge in that regard.

Now, to point out a few other things, Rift doesn't use Warhammer's engine. Rift uses Gamebryo, which just happens to be the same base engine that Warhammer used. Both have been heavily modified to suit their own needs. Both were done by two different companies. As far as the remainder, unless you were on the development team, you're not qualified to discuss what it is or isn't doing behind the scenes to warrant (or not) the CPU usage. I'm not sure if you may or may not recall, but World of Warcraft when released was extremely CPU bound as well. You may want to take your "findings" with a huge grain of salt.



Yes, that was the biggest thing that disappointed me as a healer - absolutely zero attack skills that could be used. Thankfully I had aug and procs to compensate, but it was still slow.

The need to be an "expert" is a common symptom with mild Asperger's, and it's common among "nerds". I have no idea why you're so offended.


The fact is the game is multithreaded. And the game alone is using almost 100% of both of my cores. That's exactly why it's completely appropriate for me to say the game uses 4.8ghz total power. My framerate is the same as it would be if I had a single 4.8ghz CPU. If the game was single threaded, or if one thread used 100% of a core, and the other only 10% of the other core, that would not be the case. Let me say this again so you have a better chance of understanding. Rift is multithreaded. Rift uses almost 100% of both cores.

Yes, I know how multi cores and multithreading works.

Edit: BTW, arguing the weird semantic point that the game is built on the same engine as Warhammer is but that's not "the Warhammer engine" is a perfect example of the little expert thing. And you're actually wrong. It's based on the Warhammer Online modified version of the Gamebryo engine http://tap-repeatedly.com/2011/03/08/rift/

 

[SunnyD]

The need to be an "expert" is a common symptom with mild Asperger's, and it's common among "nerds". I have no idea why you're so offended.


The fact is the game is multithreaded. And the game alone is using almost 100% of both of my cores. That's exactly why it's completely appropriate for me to say the game uses 4.8ghz total power. My framerate is the same as it would be if I had a single 4.8ghz CPU. If the game was single threaded, or if one thread used 100% of a core, and the other only 10% of the other core, that would not be the case.

I know how multi cores and multithreading works.

No, no it wouldn't. We can discuss this further when you understand the intricacies of how a 3D rendering engine works, and then how a game engine works, and then finally the multitude of ways the two can interact and how various design philosophies can impact what you - the gamer - ultimately complains about.

For the record, I'm offended because you also appear to have no real understanding of how Asperger's works as well. Throwing the term around as the new "retard" does indeed strike a nerve with me, and it's not appreciated in the least.

My apologies to the rest of the readers of this thread, sorry for letting it get derailed into a half-technical discussion that has little to do with the game itself.

 

[HumblePie]

I like my "shaman" Cleric - Sentinel [for the healing], Shaman [main], Druid [AP + crit chance + 2nd heal + stun mob for 10 seconds]. With +30 focus at level 38 - single mobs are pretty much dead within 10 seconds and multiple mobs are a piece of cake if "Rage of the North" is triggered. Though people have reported that melee dps clerics start to suck beyond level 40 due to the mobs hitting a lot harder - I may end up changing over to a "Shadow Priest" build [Cabalist/Inquisitor/xxx] or a "Protection Pally" build [Justicar/XX/XX].

One problem this game does have is terrible imbalance between lower level "elite" mobs and how hard they hit. My level 37 cleric was beaten down and destroyed by a level 27 elite rift mob [13k health] - looked like Rogue spec - constantly spamming 350-400 dps and never missing. Similar thing happened in beta - pack of 5 level 13 elite mobs literally whittled down my clerics health to zero in about 3 seconds.

coloumb, that is intended actually. Especially with rift/invasion based mobs.

When you clicked on the mob you want to attack from a rift/invasion look at the buffs it has. There will be a nameless buff that is redish-orange in color. It looks like an orange flag on a red background. In the lower right corner will be a number. This buff is its multiplier scaler. The moment you attack that mob, that number will ratchet up. It is intended to be so. Trion did not want level 50's coming through and plowing over rifts in low level zones like they were nothing. So the mobs change their multipler based off whom they are attacking. This only changes their base to hit and damage. Or it is only suppose to. So that both low levels and high levels can still hit them. It's a dynamic modification that get's caculated into people attacking them and them attacking back on the fly. The only thing that doesn't change with rift based creatures is their hitpoints. Those are still much lower than higher level rift monsters.

To put it into perspective, the level of a rift elite ONLY changes it's hitpoints when you fight it unless it is actually much higher level than you. It does not change anything else.

 

[pontifex]

I like my "shaman" Cleric - Sentinel [for the healing], Shaman [main], Druid [AP + crit chance + 2nd heal + stun mob for 10 seconds]. With +30 focus at level 38 - single mobs are pretty much dead within 10 seconds and multiple mobs are a piece of cake if "Rage of the North" is triggered. Though people have reported that melee dps clerics start to suck beyond level 40 due to the mobs hitting a lot harder - I may end up changing over to a "Shadow Priest" build [Cabalist/Inquisitor/xxx] or a "Protection Pally" build [Justicar/XX/XX].

One problem this game does have is terrible imbalance between lower level "elite" mobs and how hard they hit. My level 37 cleric was beaten down and destroyed by a level 27 elite rift mob [13k health] - looked like Rogue spec - constantly spamming 350-400 dps and never missing. Similar thing happened in beta - pack of 5 level 13 elite mobs literally whittled down my clerics health to zero in about 3 seconds.

I think there's different types of elite mobs. i noticed on lower level elite mobs that some are fairly easy to kill while other seem to have twice the hp as a regular elite.

 

[blurredvision]

Quick question. Check out the following screen cap I just took:

http://i.imgur.com/O1K2w.jpg

See the hexagon with the swords crossed? When I mouse over it, a tooltip pops up with the word "Conviction" and that's it. I don't know what this is, I can't drag it out of the way, I can't click/double-click on it to make it do anything...it's just stuck over my bars and it's been like this since yesterday at some point. Anybody know what that is and how I can get rid of it?

 

[SunnyD]

Quick question. Check out the following screen cap I just took:

http://i.imgur.com/O1K2w.jpg

See the hexagon with the swords crossed? When I mouse over it, a tooltip pops up with the word "Conviction" and that's it. I don't know what this is, I can't drag it out of the way, I can't click/double-click on it to make it do anything...it's just stuck over my bars and it's been like this since yesterday at some point. Anybody know what that is and how I can get rid of it?

Look at your Justicar skill tree. You'll find skills that either generate or use conviction. Basically the icon is a counter of conviction that tells you how much you have available in order to "power" skills that use it.

 

[blurredvision]

Look at your Justicar skill tree. You'll find skills that either generate or use conviction. Basically the icon is a counter of conviction that tells you how much you have available in order to "power" skills that use it.

I see now, thanks a lot. Justicar isn't my main soul so I don't have any spells that even use conviction yet. I still wish I could move that graphic elsewhere.

 

[SunnyD]

I see now, thanks a lot. Justicar isn't my main soul so I don't have any spells that even use conviction yet. I still wish I could move that graphic elsewhere.

You can. Hit escape, select "Edit Layout" or whatever it's called, and go to town. Note, it's actually layered UNDER your character portrait, so you'll have to move your portrait first to get to it. I moved it above my portrait.

 

[blurredvision]

You can. Hit escape, select "Edit Layout" or whatever it's called, and go to town. Note, it's actually layered UNDER your character portrait, so you'll have to move your portrait first to get to it. I moved it above my portrait.

Holy shit, not sure how I missed this one. Go to town, indeed.

 

[blurredvision]

I'm really loving how this game looks. Just took this pic about 30 seconds ago:

http://i.imgur.com/hYFdr.jpg

I lowered my resolution to 1600x900, turned off trilinear filtering, and lowered my shader complexity from 8 to 5. I also turned on Supersampling AA (had no AA before) and so far haven't noticed much hit on the frame rate at all. In that screenshot above, I'm getting around 25-30 fps. With all the other stuff turned down and AA now on, the game still looks better than what I had before, so I'm happy.

 

[Merad]

You can. Hit escape, select "Edit Layout" or whatever it's called, and go to town. Note, it's actually layered UNDER your character portrait, so you'll have to move your portrait first to get to it. I moved it above my portrait.

On the topic. Is there any way to change the size (scale) of inventory bags? They apparently aren't modifiable with the layout editor.

 

[Throckmorton]

Recommended System Specification
Operating system: Windows XP, Vista or 7
Processor: Core 2 Duo 2.2 GHz or better
Memory: 4 GB
Hard disk space: 15.0 GB available
Desktop Video: Nvidia GTS 250 or better
Notebook Video: Nvidia GTX 200M series or better
Sound: DirectX 8.1 compliant card
DirectX®: 9.0c, June 2010 update
Broadband internet connection (DSL, cable modem or other high speed connection)


How can a 2.4ghz Core2Duo be bottlenecking to unplayable fps when the recommended is 2.2ghz?

 

[Throckmorton]

http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?29015-Rift-GPU-v-CPU-what-causes-the-most-issues/page4



If you are CPU-bound for Rift, and you have a CPU with fewer than 4 cores, consider upgrading to a quad core CPU. This will provide Rift with all of the cores it needs for its major threads. Beyond that, upgrading to a higher clock speed CPU is normally the biggest benefit, but the processor architecture is also vitally important. A modern Core i7 at 2.6GHz will thrash an old Pentium 4 3.2GHz, despite the P4's higher clock speed. Other considerations such as cache sizes are also very important. Currently the Core i7 is the fastest mainstream CPU available, if your budget allows it.

 

[blurredvision]

How can a 2.4ghz Core2Duo be bottlenecking to unplayable fps when the recommended is 2.2ghz?

My guess is because there is a difference between their recommended spec and their minimum spec.

 

[Throckmorton]

My guess is because there is a difference between their recommended spec and their minimum spec.

What? 2.2ghz is the recommended, not the minimum. To me, "recommended" should be good enough that the game is playable, not bottlenecked to 10fps in tiny newbie towns.

 

[blurredvision]

What? 2.2ghz is the recommended, not the minimum. To me, "recommended" should be good enough that the game is playable, not bottlenecked to 10fps in tiny newbie towns.

I guess I misunderstood your question. Regardless, I'm playing on a C2D E6600 overclocked to 2.7GHz (default is 2.4) and am only getting down towards 10fps when in Meridian. Most everywhere else is ~25fps, although it will chug at times if there is a rift with a lot of players.

 

[Merad]

You haven't said a word that I've seen about what in-game settings you're running. Post em.

 

[Throckmorton]

You haven't said a word that I've seen about what in-game settings you're running. Post em.

I think I said I tried turning everything down to the minimum, and even the low quality renderer option. It doesn't make any difference because the CPU is the bottleneck. The GPU usage with my current settings is about 20%. During fights and in the town, FPS drops to 6-8 and GPU usage goes way down to 8%.

 

[SunnyD]

On the topic. Is there any way to change the size (scale) of inventory bags? They apparently aren't modifiable with the layout editor.

I don't think so, not just the bags at least. You can turn the entire UI scale down which should make EVERY UI element smaller.

 

[blurredvision]

I'm not sure how I'm liking the invasion thing at the moment. It seems like they want everybody in a zone to band together and fight off the forces, but it's way too clustered and disorganized. How exactly are you supposed to drop what you're doing and suddenly get in sync with a bunch of random people? It also happens way too often for my tastes. I've seen 3 major events after just playing for the past 3 hours.

I like the individual rifts and the idea behind them. But this is just too confusing for me:

http://i.imgur.com/tXpeP.jpg

Combine that with how difficult it is to target and actually see what you're targeting when there's a bunch of people and mobs on-screen, it's frustrating. I just want to level.

It seems to me like these large-scale invasions are good for maybe once a day, or even push them back to a couple of random times per week but make them longer with better rewards. Maybe it's still because I don't fully understand the ramifications of losing, since we lost one earlier and I didn't see any kind of change where I was at. Maybe all the action was elsewhere and I just didn't see it.

EDIT: At least I finished up getting my 5th soul right when this invasion started. I was hoping to finish those up tonight and get them out of the way, so mission accomplished on that.

 

[KaOTiK]

Stop by Sanctum to put up some auctions and stuff and Silverwood is getting pounding by an Invasion, here is a shot of it haha.

http://img15.imageshack.us/f/20110309193710.jpg/

 

[KaOTiK]

I'm not sure how I'm liking the invasion thing at the moment. It seems like they want everybody in a zone to band together and fight off the forces, but it's way too clustered and disorganized. How exactly are you supposed to drop what you're doing and suddenly get in sync with a bunch of random people? It also happens way too often for my tastes. I've seen 3 major events after just playing for the past 3 hours.

I like the individual rifts and the idea behind them. But this is just too confusing for me:

http://i.imgur.com/tXpeP.jpg

Combine that with how difficult it is to target and actually see what you're targeting when there's a bunch of people and mobs on-screen, it's frustrating. I just want to level.

It seems to me like these large-scale invasions are good for maybe once a day, or even push them back to a couple of random times per week but make them longer with better rewards. Maybe it's still because I don't fully understand the ramifications of losing, since we lost one earlier and I didn't see any kind of change where I was at. Maybe all the action was elsewhere and I just didn't see it.

EDIT: At least I finished up getting my 5th soul right when this invasion started. I was hoping to finish those up tonight and get them out of the way, so mission accomplished on that.

Those invasions/rift events are dynamic. The frequency in which they occur depends on that zones population, the noob zones always are loaded with people.

Honestly, they are a ton of fun. You can get some really good rewards from them and the shards/planite to buy stuff is great. Also if you have a profession that can break down green or better quality items you will get lots of mats from the stuff you will get.

I actually found questing to be what I did to fill the gap between warfronts/invasions/rifts. It was my last resort thing to do.